C J Wiley

[book collector]

Big pocket Brunswicks compared to today’s tournament tables- you could master most shots if you played enough pool with a good stroke and proper focus. Tough tables today are more challenging.

I have always felt that the person who would have suffered most of the late 60s to the 90s players if the pockets were tighter was Sigel, he hit more rails in front of the pockets than any player I ever watched. But they almost always went in.

 

[ribdoner]

Tired old argument tbh. You can only play on what's around at the time. CJ would have played great if little pockets were the standard at the time. I've seen him in action and he shot as straight as any living human in his prime.

agreed, however, his prime was short lived

 

[ChrisinNC]

agreed, however, his prime was short lived

Maybe so, but at age 60+ I’d say CJ shoots better than many of those HOF players did at age 60.

 

[8intheside]

Maybe. It's just my impression anyways. Today's standard is quite a bit higher and its changed in 20 to 30 years. I don't think the players have physically evolved all that much in this time period. So what gives?

The gambling culture was driving pool in the U.S. and the Philippines way more than Professional pool was. I think that's flipped now. Just something to consider when evaluating players of past generations. Heck -- 9 ball was considered a gamblers game for years.

Let’s use Efren as an example. He’s retired from the professional pool scene, but he still does gambling exhibition type matches and Not only is he competitive he wins at some of them. So you’re telling me In his prime he wouldn’t be able to compete with top pros on tables with smaller pockets?

 

[ribdoner]

It can be surprising how often you see bad misses in old matches, but I think a lot of those misses were due to players just having a faster and looser mindset. The tourney money wasn't great and most of these guys just played night and day -- gambling while traveling the country from tourney to tourney. So they just maintained their gambler's mindset. McCready was the poster boy for this approach. Yeah some of the greats could bare down back then but the truly mechanical, life or death approach to every shot didn't really start to take hold until Souquet started doing it. You can see the evolution of this with Archer's game. When he started out he played fairly quickly. By the end of his prime, he was picking 17 pieces of lent off of the table in between shots.

the old archer could give the new archer the 8

for many pool is a "rhythm" game, pauses can be detrimental

earl, archer, cj, etc. are examples

 

[maha]

years back players were living their high life literally. also drank and chased women and had lots of fun. they didnt live to train to win tournaments.

yes they missed more as they werent in their top shape for each match. and were more happy go lucky and fun to watch.

not so with many or most of the top players who make it their life.

 

[sjm]

CJ was a very elite player. I often saw him play in his prime. He attained the #1 ranking on the PBT in what I believe was 1996. Had to avoid guys like Sigel, Strickland, Parica and a few others in action, but was one of the very best money players in the world.

 

[maha]

and its a lot different putting large amounts of your own money on yourself instead of having a smaller buy in in a tournament.
granted tournaments have a bigger payout mostly, but little downside to them.

 

[fjk]

the old archer could give the new archer the 8

for many pool is a "rhythm" game, pauses can be detrimental

earl, archer, cj, etc. are examples

Prime Archer could probably give today's Archer the 6 and out. He's not even a shadow of his prime self.

 

[jay helfert]

I was watching an Accu-Stats video a couple of nights ago from a match between Efren and CJ at the US Open back around 1994. I had seen CJ play in Las Vegas years ago but this video was the first time I had seen him play on tape.

Man oh man, that guy can play. He hit some shots against Efren that made me wonder how in the world did he make that shot. Hats off to him and a tip of the cap as well.

r/DCP

He beat Effie for the cash too - at 9-Ball!

 

[8intheside]

CJ was a very elite player. I often saw him play in his prime. He attained the #1 ranking on the PBT in what I believe was 1996. Had to avoid guys like Sigel, Strickland, Parica and a few others in action, but was one of the very best money players in the world.

parica is arguably one of the best money players of all time, however CJ played Efren and Bustamante for the cash. Any record of them matching up?

 

[sjm]

parica is arguably one of the best money players of all time, however CJ played Efren and Bustamante for the cash. Any record of them matching up?

Jay Helfert has often reported that CJ was able to beat Efren at 9ball for the cash due to Efren's weak break. I do not know whether he ever gambled with Bustamante.

Agreed, Parica is one of the best cash game players of all time.

 

[8intheside]

Jay Helfert has often reported that CJ was able to beat Efren at 9ball for the cash due to Efren's weak break. I do not know whether he ever gambled with Bustamante.

Agreed, Parica is one of the best cash game players of all time.

He gambled with Francisco. He also gambled with Luat

 

[markjames]

Man oh man, that guy can play. He hit some shots against Efren that made me wonder how in the world did he make that shot. Hats off to him and a tip of the cap as well.

how? i have three guesses
cocaine
barbiturates
amphetamines

 

[pt109]

Jay Helfert has often reported that CJ was able to beat Efren at 9ball for the cash due to Efren's weak break. I do not know whether he ever gambled with Bustamante.

Agreed, Parica is one of the best cash game players of all time.

CJ played Bustie in ‘92 in the Western suburbs of Chicago ….got tortured….Bustie offered the 8 for a rematch…no dice.

 

[SBC]

Man I hope not...

4:00
18:25
24:50
46:27
53:15

Feel generous by labelling it solid 700 play. Would have been a landslide for Efren if his break was working for him.

I know some just love CJ, but if I had to seriously consider how my life "as a pro" would have gone. It probably would amount to CJ's. One of the greatest of the not so great.

Flame on...

Every time CJ comes up and I go digging. That '96 ESPN "world championship" comes up. Keeps reminding me I need to organize an event at my local room during the work week and get myself a world title to my resume.

Ok champ....legend in your own mind.

You should bet something. Sure he would try you.

 

[SBC]

the old archer could give the new archer the 8

for many pool is a "rhythm" game, pauses can be detrimental

earl, archer, cj, etc. are examples

Probably the 5. There is no comparison.

But the old Archer wouldn't get paid by the new Archer.

 

[8intheside]

Probably the 5. There is no comparison.

But the old Archer wouldn't get paid by the new Archer.

 

[garczar]

Self-stiffage. Not good juju.

 

[8intheside]

CJ played Bustie in ‘92 in the Western suburbs of Chicago ….got tortured….Bustie offered the 8 for a rematch…no dice.

Efren beat CJ too. Once giving him 2 or 3 games on the wire.(correction) CJ won that. He wouldn’t play Efren even.