Calcutta 'Information'

[!Smorgass Bored]

I was telling JoeyA. my thoughts on Calcuttas and the information given during the bidding process last night and he told me that I should post it here.....so I am.

The person running the calcutta might be heard to say, "The next player up for bid is Mr. World Beater. He is a previous U.S. Open Champion, has won the Reno Open, the U.S. One Pocket championship, the Mason-Dixon 8-Ball championship, has written 3 billiards books and was elected to the Hall Of Fame."

You bid $1,000 and get him in the calcutta and he shows up late coughing and limping, trying to bum a cigarette. He can't keep his bloodshot eyes open and when you ask him if he wants to buy half of himself in the calcutta, he says "NO". He plays mediocre and comes up one spot out of the money. Grrrrrrrrr, it ticks me off.

WHAT THE ANNOUNCER SHOULD SAY:
"Next up is Mr. World Beater. He's been up for the last 48 hours straight, playing $1,000 a game one-pocket (even though this is a 9 Ball tournamnt) at The Broke Spoke. He's been drinking straight glasses of George Dickel the entire time and he's $18,000 stuck. His opponent is still waiting for him to return to their previous game. He never buys half of himself and is subject to forfeit after his first loss. He owes six of the other players money and is trying to borrow a cue."

WHAT YOU 'D LIKE TO HEAR:
"Next up is Mr. World Beater. He had a delicous dinner at home with his adoring wife and children and then went to bed at 8:00 p.m. and got 10 hours of restful sleep. He woke up well rested, exercised for 30 minutes and had a wonderful breakfast of grapefruit and a big bowl of Wheaties with strawberries.

He's wearing his most comfortable favorite shoes and playing with the same cue that he's had for 10 years. He won last week's World Open and arrived here two hours early to practice on these tables. He doesn't owe anyone any money and he ALWAYS buys half of himself in the calcutta."



You just never know who you're bidding on in these calcuttas or if you're going to get dumped or chopped up. JoeyA. wants the calcutta to pay deep and I don't.

You pays your money and youse takes your chances. Have any of you bought a 'slug' and regretted it moments later ?

Doug

 

[classiccues]

I was partners on a "world beater" that said if we didn't sell him the whole thing, he'd dump.. dang if he didn't. Like you say, take your chances. I will say I have seen worse and it doesn't shock me the way the sport is. I mean really, calcutta's are nice but it doesn't seem to shock any of the players when one of their peers pull this type of behavior.

Calcutta's started out for the railbirds then once the players got involved, they became untrustworthy. Sound familiar?

JV

 

[bigshooter]

On the other hand it feels great to cheap buy an unknown and they get up high in the money.

 

[bigshooter]

I was partners on a "world beater" that said if we didn't sell him the whole thing, he'd dump.. dang if he didn't. Like you say, take your chances. I will say I have seen worse and it doesn't shock me the way the sport is. I mean really, calcutta's are nice but it doesn't seem to shock any of the players when one of their peers pull this type of behavior.

Calcutta's started out for the railbirds then once the players got involved, they became untrustworthy. Sound familiar?

JV

What a jackass, perhaps you should have taken his money then used it to have some thug break his arm Fast Eddie style. (just kidding don't flame me)

 

[Dagwoodz]

Yeah, been guilty, (or the victim), of buying a slug during a regional tour event. Got the 2nd blind bid and took an unamed former US Open champion...of course 45 minutes later I find out that he got absolutely obliterated the night before. Needless to say, he lost his first match, won 1, and then got knocked out. Go figure...lesson to be taken from it is it probably would help to do a little research before making a purchase.

 

[bigshooter]

As professional auctioneer I am invited to auction many calcuttas, unfortunately neither myself or the tournament director always knows the particulars on what a player has done recently we can only read whats on the paper or what we know their accomplishments to be.

 

[worldison2]

Anytime there is gambling involved, there is always someone trying to fix the system. This is prevalent in horseracing, casinos, professional sports (most recently the NBA ref), and the pool world is no exception. There are usually rules and commissions in place to control most gambling venues, but I've never seen one in place for Calcutta's in pool.

This leaves it wider open than most sport for fixing, so you're always going to have it. You can go with 2 courses of action:

1) Stay away from Calcuttas.
2) Be in on the fix.

 

[dogginda9]

My random thoughts: Calcutta's are definitely a dicey thing. I've had some amazing successes and terrible failures. I don't think they should pay very deep at all. As a player myself, it has probably been over 10 years since I bought half of myself and I believe the last time was because there was a chance that I wasn't coming back the next day to finish the tournament. Which brings up one sticking point I have with calcuttas.
As a player, I pay my entry fee to a tournament. From that point forward, I feel I have the right to do as I please. Meaning, if I want to leave in the middle of the tournament, I can. If I don't want to come back for a 2nd day, that's my right. Everyone has their own reasons for playing in an event and if not finishing it is what you may want to do, so be it. Being in a calcutta makes this a potential problem. I have even gone so far as to ask the auctioneer to leave me out of the calcutta before. Most have complied, several have not.
As an example of "No good deed goes unpunished" how's this one. I ask Mr. tournament director not to put me in the calcutta as I have a potential conflict the next day.(sunday). He does it anyways. I go for around $150 or so in the calcutta. A wealthy friend buys my half from the lady who bought me. She thinks I'm better than I am. I have explained her error in judgement before. I warned both her and my friend about the possible conflict. Next day comes, I'm on the 1 loss side, 3 away from the calcutta money, an hour drive away, playing a stone champion and have something else I have to do. I'm in the regular tournament money, maybe $75 or so. I call the tournament director and tell him I'm not coming and would he please give my money to the lady who bought me in the calcutta. Just to get her even or so. So much for the thought. She made a big stink about how I was gonna win the event and make her some much needed money. Well, I tried.

 

[223tracer]

I've always seen quite a few squabbles over calcuttas over the years. Sometimes 2 players making arangements to tourney directors being accused of dipping too hard. Sometimes in local tournaments strong players will dump for weeks to get a lower rating, all the while people are betting it up. It is definitely bet at your own risk on these type of bets.
I remember watching an old challenge of champions and hearing one of the commentators say Mike Lebron went off at 20 to 1. He ended up winning and even though im sure it was a legit win, think about what the bookies were thinking paying that one off.

 

[Snapshot9]

I disagree

with your logic, or feelings. If you enter a footrace, do you quit halfway through?

If you enter a tournament, especially a special one, with a Calcutta involved (something other than little weekly tournaments), then I think you have an obligation to be there playing except for an emergency that pops up. Likewise, with a Calcutta, you have an extended responsibility to your buyer to play the best you can, besides for yourself.

That is called 'Good Sportsmanship', and goes with the spirit of competition to begin with.

 

[Bigtruck]

The Fix

I had a guy who was a favorite to get in the money refuse to bid himself for $20 and then announce to the room that he was probably gonna have to leave early. One of his buddies buys him for $20 and he gets second!

I guess he didn't have to leave early after all!!

What can you do??? Like worldison2 said, always someone trying to fix the game! What these guys don't realize is they are hurting it for everyone. The prize becomes smaller and smaller until eventually no-one wants to even have an auction! Maybe side pots is the way to go!

Ray

 

[Johnnyt]

What a jackass, perhaps you should have taken his money then used it to have some thug break his arm Fast Eddie style. (just kidding don't flame me)

Flame you? I say right on. Johnnyt

 

[Johnnyt]

I've always seen quite a few squabbles over calcuttas over the years. Sometimes 2 players making arangements to tourney directors being accused of dipping too hard. Sometimes in local tournaments strong players will dump for weeks to get a lower rating, all the while people are betting it up. It is definitely bet at your own risk on these type of bets.
I remember watching an old challenge of champions and hearing one of the commentators say Mike Lebron went off at 20 to 1. He ended up winning and even though im sure it was a legit win, think about what the bookies were thinking paying that one off.

Was he playing Buddy Hall? Johnnyt

 

[JAM]

I probably have a different take on calcuttas. Usually, when we are attending tournaments, I am very conscientious of our budget. The hotel, travel, food, entry fee, and other associated expenses do add up, and sometimes the extra monies needed to bid on the calcuttas are difficult to come by.

There are always a couple of what I'll call "money guys" in the crowd. Sometimes these guys come to the pool tournaments mainly for the calcuttas. Without them, the calcuttas may not be fat.

I will never forget the time we were in Albany at the Golden Cue in April. I had just paid my income taxes and was a broke dog, but we still wanted to go to this pool tournament because we liked the pool room, the owners, and the locals.

When the calcutta was announced, I told my boyfriend immediately that we could not afford it. We only had so much monies to expend that weekend, and bidding on himself in the calcutta would have just exceeded our budget. He reluctantly agreed with me, and two players won the bid. They pooled their monies together and bought him for 180 bucks.

To this day, this is one of my all-time favorite wins on the tournament trail. My boyfriend played well and won the whole shebang. As soon as he sunk in the winning ball against Frankie Hernandez, he looked over at me, so proud to win those much-needed monies, and smiled. It was truly one of the best tournaments I had ever been to, mainly because those winnings were such a godsend to us at that time in April.

Here's a link to the tournament, and you can see the picture of the calcutta winners: http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/JossTourStopNo21-AlbanyNY.html

I think some players may look forward to the calcutta monies as way to win more bucks, in addition to the tournament payouts, but there are some who do not take the calcuttas as seriously as others.

It seems like every time my boyfriend doesn't buy himself in the calcutta on the road, my boyfriend ends up winning. This has happened to us more than once. Usually, though, when our budget allows, we will at least buy half of the calcutta bid, if not the whole thing.

JAM

 

[Bigtruck]

Thanks!

I probably have a different take on calcuttas. Usually, when we are attending tournaments, I am very conscientious of our budget. The hotel, travel, food, entry fee, and other associated expenses do add up, and sometimes the extra monies needed to bid on the calcuttas are difficult to come by.

There are always a couple of what I'll call "money guys" in the crowd. Sometimes these guys come to the pool tournaments mainly for the calcuttas. Without them, the calcuttas may not be fat.

I will never forget the time we were in Albany at the Golden Cue in April. I had just paid my income taxes and was a broke dog, but we still wanted to go to this pool tournament because we liked the pool room, the owners, and the locals.

When the calcutta was announced, I told my boyfriend immediately that we could not afford it. We only had so much monies to expend that weekend, and bidding on himself in the calcutta would have just exceeded our budget. He reluctantly agreed with me, and two players won the bid. They pooled their monies together and bought him for 180 bucks.

To this day, this is one of my all-time favorite wins on the tournament trail. My boyfriend played well and won the whole shebang. As soon as he sunk in the winning ball against Frankie Hernandez, he looked over at me, so proud to win those much-needed monies, and smiled. It was truly one of the best tournaments I had ever been to, mainly because those winnings were such a godsend to us at that time in April.

Here's a link to the tournament, and you can see the picture of the calcutta winners: http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/JossTourStopNo21-AlbanyNY.html

I think some players may look forward to the calcutta monies as way to win more bucks, in addition to the tournament payouts, but there are some who do not take the calcuttas as seriously as others.

It seems like every time my boyfriend doesn't buy himself in the calcutta on the road, my boyfriend ends up winning. This has happened to us more than once. Usually, though, when our budget allows, we will at least buy half of the calcutta bid, if not the whole thing.

JAM

Great pics Jam!! Did they throw your boyfriend a little jelly??

Ray

 

[hemicudas]

I probably have a different take on calcuttas. Usually, when we are attending tournaments, I am very conscientious of our budget. The hotel, travel, food, entry fee, and other associated expenses do add up, and sometimes the extra monies needed to bid on the calcuttas are difficult to come by.

There are always a couple of what I'll call "money guys" in the crowd. Sometimes these guys come to the pool tournaments mainly for the calcuttas. Without them, the calcuttas may not be fat.

I will never forget the time we were in Albany at the Golden Cue in April. I had just paid my income taxes and was a broke dog, but we still wanted to go to this pool tournament because we liked the pool room, the owners, and the locals.

When the calcutta was announced, I told my boyfriend immediately that we could not afford it. We only had so much monies to expend that weekend, and bidding on himself in the calcutta would have just exceeded our budget. He reluctantly agreed with me, and two players won the bid. They pooled their monies together and bought him for 180 bucks.

To this day, this is one of my all-time favorite wins on the tournament trail. My boyfriend played well and won the whole shebang. As soon as he sunk in the winning ball against Frankie Hernandez, he looked over at me, so proud to win those much-needed monies, and smiled. It was truly one of the best tournaments I had ever been to, mainly because those winnings were such a godsend to us at that time in April.

Here's a link to the tournament, and you can see the picture of the calcutta winners: http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/JossTourStopNo21-AlbanyNY.html

I think some players may look forward to the calcutta monies as way to win more bucks, in addition to the tournament payouts, but there are some who do not take the calcuttas as seriously as others.

It seems like every time my boyfriend doesn't buy himself in the calcutta on the road, my boyfriend ends up winning. This has happened to us more than once. Usually, though, when our budget allows, we will at least buy half of the calcutta bid, if not the whole thing.

JAM

Gotta know, did the calcutta winners toss Keith a jelly roll?

 

[JAM]

Great pics Jam!! Did they throw your boyfriend a little jelly??

Ray

Gotta know, did the calcutta winners toss Keith a jelly roll?

Yep. Right before the final match with Frankie Hernandez, they came up to Keith and gave him a verbal boost, wishing him to play well and win the calcutta for them. At that time, they told Keith that they were going to give him a "tip" if he won the tournament.

I don't think the first-place calcutta was a lot of monies. I can't remember. I know it only paid out three spots in the calcutta. I want to say first-place calcutta monies was like $350, but I can't be sure. Keith went for $180 in the calcutta bid, so they didn't win too much. Plus they bought other players in the calcutta, if memory serves me right.

They did give Keith a crisp 50-dollar bill, just like they promised, which I thought was very nice of them.

JAM

 

[Jason Robichaud]

Maybe that is how you get your horse to play better. Tell them you won't sell half, but you will give the 25% or x% of winnings. Free money should give them a little extra motivation. I was at one calcutta and everyone was sold blind for the same amount... I think it was like 50$ or something. It was fun. Made for a better profit on the win.

 

[ironman]

I was telling JoeyA. my thoughts on Calcuttas and the information given during the bidding process last night and he told me that I should post it here.....so I am.

The person running the calcutta might be heard to say, "The next player up for bid is Mr. World Beater. He is a previous U.S. Open Champion, has won the Reno Open, the U.S. One Pocket championship, the Mason-Dixon 8-Ball championship, has written 3 billiards books and was elected to the Hall Of Fame."

You bid $1,000 and get him in the calcutta and he shows up late coughing and limping, trying to bum a cigarette. He can't keep his bloodshot eyes open and when you ask him if he wants to buy half of himself in the calcutta, he says "NO". He plays mediocre and comes up one spot out of the money. Grrrrrrrrr, it ticks me off.

WHAT THE ANNOUNCER SHOULD SAY:
"Next up is Mr. World Beater. He's been up for the last 48 hours straight, playing $1,000 a game one-pocket (even though this is a 9 Ball tournamnt) at The Broke Spoke. He's been drinking straight glasses of George Dickel the entire time and he's $18,000 stuck. His opponent is still waiting for him to return to their previous game. He never buys half of himself and is subject to forfeit after his first loss. He owes six of the other players money and is trying to borrow a cue."

WHAT YOU 'D LIKE TO HEAR:
"Next up is Mr. World Beater. He had a delicous dinner at home with his adoring wife and children and then went to bed at 8:00 p.m. and got 10 hours of restful sleep. He woke up well rested, exercised for 30 minutes and had a wonderful breakfast of grapefruit and a big bowl of Wheaties with strawberries.

He's wearing his most comfortable favorite shoes and playing with the same cue that he's had for 10 years. He won last week's World Open and arrived here two hours early to practice on these tables. He doesn't owe anyone any money and he ALWAYS buys half of himself in the calcutta."



You just never know who you're bidding on in these calcuttas or if you're going to get dumped or chopped up. JoeyA. wants the calcutta to pay deep and I don't.

You pays your money and youse takes your chances. Have any of you bought a 'slug' and regretted it moments later ?

Doug

I have over the years run close 6-700 calcuttas and can promise you get into some sticky positions. Some want you to add disclaimers like they haven't been playing, have been sick, been up all night, can't buy half and many many more just trying to slow the bidding. Often, they are full of crap and trying to manipulate the price. You suspect it and it's damned if you mention it and damed if you don't.

I sstick by a couple of rules: If you come to a tournament I'm running and trying to stay undercover, you are getting knocked. If you don't like it, don't play and I'll never say a word as I'm old school and don't meddle in others action.

If you sell for whatever and miss your first match or don't show, I wait for the second match and you don't show, I refund the money with apologies to the buyer.

If you forfiet the first match and show for the second but haven't bought half, you have a debt and can't play in one of mine until you square the debt.

I have a deep loyalty to the buyers as they sponsor the calcuttas and ofte, the calcutta is the reason for the tournament anyway. {look at Laffayette La.} I try hard to protect them, but, it is still gambling and chances are involved. Things happen and you just can't control everything.

As for the papyouts, I always pay 25% of the field in the tournament and half that in the calcutta. It's a standard everyone is used to around here. If you ppay 25% in the calcutta, what is the point of risking your money. Now days it is almost impossble for a pick of the field to get back 10-1 on the investment anyway. Pay 25% in the calcutta and they WILL DIE worse than they are now!!

 

[JAM]

...As for the payouts, I always pay 25% of the field in the tournament and half that in the calcutta. It's a standard everyone is used to around here. If you pay 25% in the calcutta, what is the point of risking your money. Nowadays it is almost impossble for a pick of the field to get back 10-1 on the investment anyway. Pay 25% in the calcutta and they WILL DIE worse than they are now!!

I don't think I understand what you are describing for the calcutta payouts.

Do you mean that only 50 percent of the monies collected are paid out, or do you mean that half of the players in the calcutta are paid out to the calcutta bidders? TIA!

JAM