what everyones thoughts on making 9 ball like 8 ball where you have to call the pocket and not have as much or any S%!T shots at all? i asked guys around here and they said that they wouldnt play in tournaments at all if it came to that. but they are the guys that complain everytime someone flukes in a ball. has anyone ever attempted this at all. is it a big waste if time changing 9 ball like this???
call pocket 9 ball
- Thread starter niimush
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My likes
I play in a monthly tournament where you have to call the 9ball or it doesn't count, i.e. no slopping it in. I really like the format myself. In addition this same tournament requires that your opponent must shoot the 9ball even if it is a hanger. If you conceed the 9ball it is a 2 game penalty. I also like that rule as well.
niimush said:
I play in a monthly tournament where you have to call the 9ball or it doesn't count, i.e. no slopping it in. I really like the format myself. In addition this same tournament requires that your opponent must shoot the 9ball even if it is a hanger. If you conceed the 9ball it is a 2 game penalty. I also like that rule as well.
pharaoh68
Banned
niimush said:
Yeah. It is. There are so many tours and leagues out there that have their own specific rules. That ebing said, rules for each game are going to differ from region to region. Its very rare to find one complete set of rules that are strictly adhered to in every area.
For example, you mention 8 ball. Some leagues don't require you to call any shot in 8 ball with the exception of the 8 itself.
Its a good idea and I understand your point, but plenty of people already play 'call your pocket' 9 ball. But you'll never be able to change the rule unversally.
niimush said:
Don't be a "yes-man" and nod your head, just stop and tell them they are contradicting themselves, that's all.
You'll find that the people who whine about slop shots are the people who would still lose if everyone called their pockets... If you get the opportunatey, play some sets and prove it!
niimush said:
Part of the problem you run into whenever you apply a call-shot rule to a slop-shot game is that you then have to deal with safeties with a pocketed ball. If the call-shot rule only applies to the 9-ball, it's not a big deal but you're still going to have to deal with the occasional slop and anyone will tell you, it really doesn't matter WHEN the slop happens. If someone slops a ball in and gets out, it's slop.
I mean, call-shot 9-ball would actually open up a plethora of safety options. Do you want that?
I find 9-ball more interesting and "pure" without the call shot rule. Slop doesn't make much difference even at the C level, even though everyone likes to whine when it happens to them (including me). Basically, if you can run out, you don't slop a lot of balls in. If you can't run out, slop isn't going to help.
The major source of luck in 9-ball is the break, followed by leaving your opponent safe by accident (even though both can be controlled, there's lots of luck there). Slop is a very minor factor compared to those two.
In straight pool you need call shot to prevent people from just whacking the balls. The same holds for 8-ball, though to a lesser extent. But in 9-ball, having to shoot the lowest ball next, along with having less balls on the table, mostly nullifies the hit and hope strategy. I like the fact that you can take a calculated risk and try two shots at once, etc. Also, call shot lets you call safe and pocket a ball, which I don't think is good for 9-ball because it makes it easier to get out of bad situations.
The major source of luck in 9-ball is the break, followed by leaving your opponent safe by accident (even though both can be controlled, there's lots of luck there). Slop is a very minor factor compared to those two.
In straight pool you need call shot to prevent people from just whacking the balls. The same holds for 8-ball, though to a lesser extent. But in 9-ball, having to shoot the lowest ball next, along with having less balls on the table, mostly nullifies the hit and hope strategy. I like the fact that you can take a calculated risk and try two shots at once, etc. Also, call shot lets you call safe and pocket a ball, which I don't think is good for 9-ball because it makes it easier to get out of bad situations.
If you change just this one rule, it would make safeties too easy in many cases, as Jude pointed out.
There was a post in another thread about reducing luck in 9-ball. Here's one solution that I haven't tried yet, but it could be interesting:
- Call pocket.
- Ball in hand on each foul.
- If a ball is slopped in, the opponent can take the table, or give it back. (This rule, IMO, would be necessary in call-shot 9-ball.)
- If a shot is missed, the opponent can take the table or give it back, unless a safety was declared before the shot.
- If the 9-ball is pocketed on the break, the breaker gets to choose between spotting the 9-ball or re-breaking.
- If you miss ball in hand you must do the chicken dance. (this rule courtesy of BazookaJoe)
There was a post in another thread about reducing luck in 9-ball. Here's one solution that I haven't tried yet, but it could be interesting:
- Call pocket.
- Ball in hand on each foul.
- If a ball is slopped in, the opponent can take the table, or give it back. (This rule, IMO, would be necessary in call-shot 9-ball.)
- If a shot is missed, the opponent can take the table or give it back, unless a safety was declared before the shot.
- If the 9-ball is pocketed on the break, the breaker gets to choose between spotting the 9-ball or re-breaking.
- If you miss ball in hand you must do the chicken dance. (this rule courtesy of BazookaJoe)
Cuebacca, you actually do bring up an interesting point - I think no game should have on-the-break wins. JMHO.
agree about no on-the-break wins.
not so sure making it call shot changes the safety aspect hugely. Presumably the difference is that under slop rules, if you're hooked... occasionally your kicks go in somewhere unexpected and you get to keep shooting.
I think though that
a. a kick doesn't fly in all that often, good players seem to play kicks for a safe leave
b. when it does, it would be pretty trivial for a good player to estimate which pocket it's likely to fall into and to call that pocket 'just in case'
c. about half the time (ok maybe less) accidentally kicking a ball in can work against the shooter. That's what happened when efren was forced to 'the greatest shot ever'.
Basically I don't think it would make much difference at all at high level 9 ball, 99% of the shots fall into the pockets the players expected anyay. But at low level 9 ball it could certainly have an impact.
not so sure making it call shot changes the safety aspect hugely. Presumably the difference is that under slop rules, if you're hooked... occasionally your kicks go in somewhere unexpected and you get to keep shooting.
I think though that
a. a kick doesn't fly in all that often, good players seem to play kicks for a safe leave
b. when it does, it would be pretty trivial for a good player to estimate which pocket it's likely to fall into and to call that pocket 'just in case'
c. about half the time (ok maybe less) accidentally kicking a ball in can work against the shooter. That's what happened when efren was forced to 'the greatest shot ever'.
Basically I don't think it would make much difference at all at high level 9 ball, 99% of the shots fall into the pockets the players expected anyay. But at low level 9 ball it could certainly have an impact.
CreeDo said:
It's more along the lines of:
the 3 ball is on the end rail, the 4 ball is way on the other end of the table with traffic in between, and you get dead straight in on the 3. Without call shot, you either have to do something crazy to get on the 4, or come with a safe (which may not be easy). With call shot, you call safe, pocket the 3, leave your opponent on the rail, hooked, kicking at a ball 9 feet away.
Unlike in 8-ball, the fact that the opponent has only one ball they can hit makes it a lot easier to play this kind of safe; it's the same as hooking yourself by accident on the next ball. Having to hide the same ball you just hit is more difficult.
we played an in house league once where we played nine ball but you had to call every shot. the only adjustment was you could not call safe-ball-down,if you called safe and something went in, or you made a ball in the wrong pocket, the incoming player had the option to shoot or give it back. i must say i actually really liked the format. it elimated the slop for the most part. although i have to add there is NO CHANCE of ever changing the rules universally as someone stated earlier.
niimush said:
A somewhat simpleminded answer.
There is a game wherein one must call all shots, Straight Pool.
Although 14.1 is greatly beloved by many of us, it is only slightly
more popular than root canal.
The most popular and sucessfull cue disipline in the world
is Snooker.
You don't have to call any shots in Snooker.
As has been mentioned, actual "blind luck" has little if any effect
in 9 ball except at the ballbanger level.
There is some possibility that call-shot might encourage bangers
to progress faster.
Dale
Help me here
Either I am not following this correctly or I am as dumb as I look. In 9 ball call pocket you would not need to call a safe, just like in current rules 9 ball. In this example if you are going to shoot the 3 ball in the called pocket you must then continue to shoot and try to hit the 4 ball. Just like in regular 9 balls rules you can't call safe then just shoot a ball in the hole and give the table over to the incoming player. If you make a ball you continue shooting just like in regular 9 ball. Correct me if I am wrong.ineedaspot said:
SixSence said:
I'd rather have a ball slopped in on me.
I heartily disagree about slop. I see time and time again, either a slam on the 9 or another ball that goes in to be able to continue a run and that is just not right. It rewards new players to just crank on a shot, instead of using finesse. Especially in a weekly race to 3, it can be devastating. At higher skill levels you do not see as much slop, because usually the player knows where everything is going. I think it should still be a win on the break though, just as an 8 ball is in many rules, and that would be the only shot that would not need to be called. Any ball that goes stays down.
A friend wants to run a league and they have requested Call 9 ball. She asked me what would happen if the 8 went into the wrong pocket.
I like these rules.
In call 9 ball, in the situation you described, if it went into an uncalled pocket, it would be loss of game like 8 ball, therefore cutting down on the slamming effect and making it more of a skill game. If you called a ball and ALSO wanted to call the 9 as insurance, you would call the likeliest pocket. If the 9 did not go, but the first called ball did, you would keep shooting. (First called ball is your primary ball, 2nd called ball is secondary and you are not penalized if it does not go in.) Some people think that with those rules, that everyone would just call a 9 ball on every shot. The reality is that most players do have a pocket in mind when they ride the cheese and the ones who fluke it from nowhere aren't going to call the right pocket anyway, because they never saw the shot in the first place.
Call 9ball also gives bragging rights to someone who clearly saw a shot and executed it and observers can learn from it and start seeing possibilities themselves. It also removes the stigma of slop when it was a great shot.
If it is a different ball than the 9 that gets fluked in, it spots.
A friend wants to run a league and they have requested Call 9 ball. She asked me what would happen if the 8 went into the wrong pocket.
I like these rules.
In call 9 ball, in the situation you described, if it went into an uncalled pocket, it would be loss of game like 8 ball, therefore cutting down on the slamming effect and making it more of a skill game. If you called a ball and ALSO wanted to call the 9 as insurance, you would call the likeliest pocket. If the 9 did not go, but the first called ball did, you would keep shooting. (First called ball is your primary ball, 2nd called ball is secondary and you are not penalized if it does not go in.) Some people think that with those rules, that everyone would just call a 9 ball on every shot. The reality is that most players do have a pocket in mind when they ride the cheese and the ones who fluke it from nowhere aren't going to call the right pocket anyway, because they never saw the shot in the first place.
Call 9ball also gives bragging rights to someone who clearly saw a shot and executed it and observers can learn from it and start seeing possibilities themselves. It also removes the stigma of slop when it was a great shot.
If it is a different ball than the 9 that gets fluked in, it spots.
I've never really liked nine ball all that much anyway, but the way I look at it is, if you really want to play a game with little to no slop, simply play straight pool.
If you want a fast gambling game, flip coins.
If you need something sort of in between, then nine ball the way it is works fine.
If you want a fast gambling game, flip coins.
If you need something sort of in between, then nine ball the way it is works fine.
rackmsuckr said:
Who do you watch play?
Over the last 35 years I have been to dozens of 9 ball tournaments
ranging from regional pros to world class champions.
I watched Earl play Buddy Hall when he was 19.
I remember Jim Rempe in full Afro and disco heels<shudder>
I don't recall ever seeing a match lost due to 'luking balls in'.
Not to assume it has never happened, just that it is rare-rare.
FWIW you hardly ever see a top player shoot a shot where he
even can get lucky
Dale<thanks for the memories>
Well, I haven't seen many top level matches won on slop, but I have just seen this weekend, in the final game of our monthly tournament, the guy lucked two balls in in a row to get easy on the 9. I was so disgusted. Didn't help my disgust that his handicap was lower than it should have been (it had been raised the week before, he got it dropped a level for the tournament, then he goes and wins the thing... grrrr...). I wasn't playing, but it irritated me to watch it.
However, I am completely sick of seeing 9 balls slopped in all the time. It has caused me to consider quitting playing 9 ball lately, but it is all anyone knows how to play here. Call the 9 ball if it's going to go in, otherwise spot it up.
Call all shots could be interesting in 9 ball, especially if the incoming player had the option to give it back when a ball is mispocketed. It would be like a secondary push shot. The incoming player could have the option of having the ball spotted or keeping the ball down.
However, I am completely sick of seeing 9 balls slopped in all the time. It has caused me to consider quitting playing 9 ball lately, but it is all anyone knows how to play here. Call the 9 ball if it's going to go in, otherwise spot it up.
Call all shots could be interesting in 9 ball, especially if the incoming player had the option to give it back when a ball is mispocketed. It would be like a secondary push shot. The incoming player could have the option of having the ball spotted or keeping the ball down.
when i wstarted playing in 85, the 9 had to be called, if it went in the wrong hole it was spotted,
if a player wants to show respect and give the game to someone when the 9 is a hanger so what? i have seen guys forfit with the 6,7,8,9 on the table, they were champions in action, if I want to give a game up why should I be penilized? its my loss. i guess all this PC stuff is part of pool now-we have to be fair, whats fair is let a player do what he wants-if he wante to toss in the towel on a game let him.
if a player wants to show respect and give the game to someone when the 9 is a hanger so what? i have seen guys forfit with the 6,7,8,9 on the table, they were champions in action, if I want to give a game up why should I be penilized? its my loss. i guess all this PC stuff is part of pool now-we have to be fair, whats fair is let a player do what he wants-if he wante to toss in the towel on a game let him.