Called shots rule

[witzar]

Hi.

I've read the (WPA) rule about called shots, but I'm not sure I understand it properly. Could someone clarify this for me, please?

Suppose that I have a dead combination, the simplest ever and the most obvious ever, suppose I go for it and make it but without calling the ball and the pocket. Can my opponent question the shot?

 

[Maniac]

Hi.

I've read the (WPA) rule about called shots, but I'm not sure I understand it properly. Could someone clarify this for me, please?

Suppose that I have a dead combination, the simplest ever and the most obvious ever, suppose I go for it and make it but without calling the ball and the pocket. Can my opponent question the shot?

It would be a lowly gesture but yes, he CAN question the shot. I, as a rule, call anything other than a straight-in shot or an obvious cut shot. I call all bank, carom, combination shots, etc. Better to do this than to lose focus "haggling" with some peckerhead over something ridiculous. Keep in mind, only the ball and pocket must be called. It doesn't matter HOW the called ball gets into the called pocket.

Maniac

 

[sfleinen]

It would be a lowly gesture but yes, he CAN question the shot. I, as a rule, call anything other than a straight-in shot or an obvious cut shot. I call all bank, carom, combination shots, etc. Better to do this than to lose focus "haggling" with some peckerhead over something ridiculous. Keep in mind, only the ball and pocket must be called. It doesn't matter HOW the called ball gets into the called pocket.

Maniac

Maniac:

EXCELLENT post! Yes, rather than wasting brain- and mouth-CPU cycles on arguing/defending against some peckerhead trying to throw you off your game, it doesn't take much physical effort to say "4 - 10 combination, 10-ball corner pocket" (and that, by the way, is the really pedantic method -- you don't have to be *this* detailed!). But really, is it that hard/effort-draining to just say three words indicating the ball and pocket, even if it's obvious?

This ain't slop 9-ball where anything goes, as long as the lowest-numbered ball is hit. When in a call-ball/-pocket game like 10-ball, you have to interact with your opponent a lot more than in Texas Express rules. Pool's a social game anyway -- exercise those social skills!

-Sean

 

[greenlight]

Great reply's. I agree it is best to just call it. I like to look at as part of controlling the table. Dont give your opponent a chance to challenge a shot, which may get to your head, or worse yet, to the table.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

You have to call all non obvious shots, which are banks and combinations.
Even tho two frozen balls directly in front of a pocket might be obvious to yourself, save the hassle and call it.

 

[ronhudson]

There are times when a shot that's totally obvious to you is not so obvious to someone else. And how many times have you seen a totally obvious shot do something different than what you expected?

Maybe it's a combination shot where your ball is supposed to knock in your opponent's ball for an uncalled safety; instead the opponent's ball jaws and rolls away from the pocket and your follows and rolls in. Since you didn't call a safety or a ball, who know what your intent was?

Easier to just indicate which ball in which pocket. Easy and avoids confusion.

 

[Pushout]

You have to call all non obvious shots, which are banks and combinations.

According to what rules? Are you referring to WPA specifically, here? Ball and pocket are the only things needed to be called. Banks and combinations don't matter as long as the called ball goes in the called pocket.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

VNEA. You are right. Ball and pocket are all that needs to be said.
I just meant that a combination and bank aren't obvious so you should call your intent.

 

[greenlight]

Here is a situation that came up a couple weeks ago. Your opponent is solids and gets down to shoot without calling anything. turns out he missed anyway but had he made one he should of called it as there are multiple ways of playing this shot even thought he didnt think so. Latter he said it was obvious that he was playing the 2 is the side. So how would you play this?

CueTable Help

 

[mdavis228]

I like a dead stun shot cross side on the two ball. If it goes, you're out. If it doesn't and you leave the CB where the two was, your opponent is in a tough spot.
The 2 off the one or the 2 off the 6 into the one are available, but you have to hit them hard enough to bring the CB around the kitchen into center table - or take a big chance on any kind of 2nd shot. Hitting them that speed makes the outcome a lot harder to predict.

 

[dabarbr]

Hi.

I've read the (WPA) rule about called shots, but I'm not sure I understand it properly. Could someone clarify this for me, please?

Suppose that I have a dead combination, the simplest ever and the most obvious ever, suppose I go for it and make it but without calling the ball and the pocket. Can my opponent question the shot?

Be careful in how you and your opponent interpret the rules. There is a big difference in call shot and call pocket.

My experience says the poorer the player the more difficult they want to make the game and want to play call shot. This means that everything that transpires with that shot must be called, kisses, rails, combos and the like.

Call pocket is the most popular way to play, just call the ball and the pocket with a legal hit. No matter how it gets there. This will eliminate any arguments.

 

[bobroberts]

I always played if you called 8 ball side pocket and jarred it and banked it and came cross pocket,it didn't count.

 

[rackem]

What about adjacent rails?

Be careful in how you and your opponent interpret the rules. There is a big difference in call shot and call pocket.

My experience says the poorer the player the more difficult they want to make the game and want to play call shot. This means that everything that transpires with that shot must be called, kisses, rails, combos and the like.

Call pocket is the most popular way to play, just call the ball and the pocket with a legal hit. No matter how it gets there. This will eliminate any arguments.

Call shot is call rails. Like in running a ball that is just a hair off the rail down past the side pocket into the corner. Might hit 2 different rails 3 times getting there especially on a barbox. :scratchhead:
Cueball could hit the rail a nanosecond before it hits the object ball.
Call all rails does not work.

 

[dabarbr]

Call shot is call rails. Like in running a ball that is just a hair off the rail down past the side pocket into the corner. Might hit 2 different rails 3 times getting there especially on a barbox. :scratchhead:
Cueball could hit the rail a nanosecond before it hits the object ball.
Call all rails does not work.

Call shot is calling everything that that object ball will do before it enters the pocket. If you call your ball into a corner pocket and there is another ball near that pocket and your ball touches that ball it will not count if you didn't call that kiss. And if it's the eight ball that went in, you lose if you didn't call that kiss.

That rail situation you described is one of the reasons call shot leads to arguments. You see one thing and he sees another.

 

[Pushout]

Call shot is calling everything that that object ball will do before it enters the pocket. If you call your ball into a corner pocket and there is another ball near that pocket and your ball touches that ball it will not count if you didn't call that kiss. And if it's the eight ball that went in, you lose if you didn't call that kiss.

I've only seen the what you describe in bars. I've never seen this type of thing in a pool room by players.
The way I learned to play, call shot meant ball and pocket and still does.

 

[dabarbr]

I've only seen the what you describe in bars. I've never seen this type of thing in a pool room by players.
The way I learned to play, call shot meant ball and pocket and still does.

You're absolutely correct in that this is usually a bar rule but it has a way of finding itself into pool rooms.

My point was that to clarify you need to make sure that both of you understand the rules you're playing by so that no unusual situations arise.

Even in the bars the difference between call shot and call pocket are understood.

 

[Pushout]

You're absolutely correct in that this is usually a bar rule but it has a way of finding itself into pool rooms.

My point was that to clarify you need to make sure that both of you understand the rules you're playing by so that no unusual situations arise.

Even in the bars the difference between call shot and call pocket are understood.

Cool. I haven't played in the bars for some time now, even though I'm in SC where most play is in bars. I hit 'em around at home, my financial situation doesn't allow me to get out much

 

[witzar]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I did not make my question precise enough, and this is why I got so many answers but still have doubts.
Of course it is better to call every combination to avoid potential argument with opponent, no doubt about that. And I was not asking about how to call a shot in pool also.

So let me rephrase my question. Suppose You are a Tournament Director, and You have to make a decision. In a game of 8-ball the layout was as on the diagram below

CueTable Help

Player A (playing solids) pocketed a 1-ball with a combination but he DID NOT CALL the shot. Before his next shot his opponent (Player B) interrupted him saying that the shot was not called, so it was a safety, so now it is Player B to shoot. Player A did not agree, so the players have called a Referee (You). And now, what is your decision?

 

[GADawg]

Call shot is calling everything that that object ball will do before it enters the pocket. If you call your ball into a corner pocket and there is another ball near that pocket and your ball touches that ball it will not count if you didn't call that kiss. And if it's the eight ball that went in, you lose if you didn't call that kiss.

That rail situation you described is one of the reasons call shot leads to arguments. You see one thing and he sees another.

Except in both WPA and BCA rules, what you describe as "call pocket" is specifically called "call shot" where only the ball and pocket are required to be called.

I think BCA rules also state that banks and combinations are never obvious and must always be called. WPA not so clear.

 

[sfleinen]

Bank, caroms, and combinations are NEVER obvious according to BCA/WPA rules

Thanks for all the replies. I think I did not make my question precise enough, and this is why I got so many answers but still have doubts.
Of course it is better to call every combination to avoid potential argument with opponent, no doubt about that. And I was not asking about how to call a shot in pool also.

So let me rephrase my question. Suppose You are a Tournament Director, and You have to make a decision. In a game of 8-ball the layout was as on the diagram below

CueTable Help

Player A (playing solids) pocketed a 1-ball with a combination but he DID NOT CALL the shot. Before his next shot his opponent (Player B) interrupted him saying that the shot was not called, so it was a safety, so now it is Player B to shoot. Player A did not agree, so the players have called a Referee (You). And now, what is your decision?

As stupid as it sounds, Player B is correct -- there are *TWO* object balls in play here, not just one. Player A should've called that shot, because combinations (or caroms, in case he "might've" been playing the 2-ball off the 1-ball into the upper right-hand corner pocket?) are never obvious. In certain parts, the WPA rules reference the BCA rules, and it's specifically stated in the BCA rules that banks, caroms, and combinations are never obvious and should always be called:

http://wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_tournament#1.6
http://wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_8ball#3.6

As nitty and peckerheaded as it sounds, Player B is unfortunately right, although Player B is a pedantic opportunistic fool, IMHO.

-Sean