Can anyone make this shot?

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
https://youtu.be/-DvBRaivb3g?t=4m20s

I've tried the shot about 25 times since I saw it a couple weeks ago, and I'm getting worse at it.

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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's Efren and all, and the delayed english effects are well known, but I don't think he's making that on a Diamond.

Lou Figueroa
not the Diamond
I play on anyway
 

Sharivari

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I once tried this shot and made it at the first try. "All you have to do" is hit low on the cue ball, cut it a little to the right and hit hard and with much quality.

Doesnt't work on every table.
 

grindz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Try it going cross side, and you’ll get a better feel for it.
It doesn’t go on some tables as well due to how the rails
Take English, as some others have said.

Td
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Silver Member
... Doesn't work on every table.
In particular, old, sticky cloth is better.

As mentioned above, it is the same action as the three-cushion cross-cross-cross side bank when the object ball is on the center spot. Everybody should know how to make that one. It doesn't even take any side spin on the cue ball.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There must be some right spin on the ball when it hits the second rail. Where does that spin come from? It’s not spin transfer from the cue ball because he’s not using English. And the cue ball is rubbing the opposite direction so it’s not from contact. It’s just picked up from hitting the rail?
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There must be some right spin on the ball when it hits the second rail. Where does that spin come from? It’s not spin transfer from the cue ball because he’s not using English. And the cue ball is rubbing the opposite direction so it’s not from contact. It’s just picked up from hitting the rail?

I don't have an answer for you. But I wanted to say my table has lines drawn on the cloth on all the diamonds. Using those lines, you can see the angle change of the OB after contacting each rail a bit better than Efren's shot.

I think the OB has clockwise spin (as viewed from the shooter), the entire time. It has little affects rebounding off of rail one and rail two, and has the most affect rebounding off of rail 3. But I'm not sure...
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Silver Member
There must be some right spin on the ball when it hits the second rail. Where does that spin come from? It’s not spin transfer from the cue ball because he’s not using English. And the cue ball is rubbing the opposite direction so it’s not from contact. It’s just picked up from hitting the rail?
I'm sure the shot is explained somewhere on Dr. Dave's site, but here is the short answer....

The ball is shot to the right into the cushion. That gives it right spin as it comes off that rail. It hits the second rail at an angle that uses up all the right spin and gives it some left spin. That left spin takes on the third rail and the ball goes to the pocket.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I shot it again (but the trice cross side version) and used my iPhone's slow motion setting in addition to my overhead camera. I thought the slow motion would better show what is happening.

The slow motion is not good enough IMO to get a full idea of what is happening.

I'm kind of leaning towards the spin on the OB does not have much if any affect, and all of the of angle change is coming from the rail compression? IDK....

Anyway, judge for yourself.

https://youtu.be/wFq347q5PzM
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Try it going cross side, and you’ll get a better feel for it.
It doesn’t go on some tables as well due to how the rails
Take English, as some others have said.

Td

That's the first thing I thought.

I have done it numerous times that way. I have demonstrated it for people and they thought it was a "trick shot". I used it on a number of occasions when people say "pool is geometry" to show they are wrong. I have used it a few times in a game as well over the years. I don't remember ever doing it the long way, but it should work the same...as we see. But certainly much more difficult the long way, less forgiving. The short way isn't actually that difficult once you have a feel for it.

As you say, not on all tables...depends on the cushions and the cloth.
.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here is the link from Dr Dave's site on this shot.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/banks_and_kicks.html#two-times


And here is a high speed video of the spin reversal affect of hitting the rail:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-31.htm


Dr Dave and/or Bob: WHY does this reversal happen? I did not see the explanation in this section. Is it the actual deformation of the rubber that is somehow applying a moment to the ball? Can you show this with a sketch?

Thank you.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Silver Member
Here is the link from Dr Dave's site on this shot.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/banks_and_kicks.html#two-times


And here is a high speed video of the spin reversal affect of hitting the rail:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-31.htm


Dr Dave and/or Bob: WHY does this reversal happen? I did not see the explanation in this section. Is it the actual deformation of the rubber that is somehow applying a moment to the ball? Can you show this with a sketch?

Thank you.
I think I explained it above. The angle the ball goes into the cushion at is sufficient to give it that much side spin.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can make it on my gc, but load it with inside spinglish.

Comes up pretty regularly in 1p, along the bottom rail when you cant 1rail the bank.

Never tried it without juice, but maybe I will call in slick to work today and play pool.

I wish.
 
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