Can jump shots damage the table or cloth?

[Robroy]

I say let them jump! Not by scooping under the ball though!! The cloth will get marks on it, it is unavoidable and a consequence of use.

I would advise that you get a couple of pieces of cloth, 5cm x 5cm, to put under the cue ball when breaking. I have simoonis on my cloth and the visible leftovers of breaking far outnumber those of jumping...

Enjoy the table! It is great for laundry!!

Exactly! You can see the line from the Breaking position to the one ball. The cloth is amazing how much it does for the table.

As for jumping taking the shot out well everyone knows how I feel, I am of course partial.
Just don't practice in the same place, use your table and have fun!

 

[jay helfert]

From one with more experience doing jump shots than I want to remember.

Jump shots do create flat spots that can be mostly brushed out. I used to use my own table for jump exhibitions and by the end of the day the cloth looked ten years old after 1000's of jump shots - however after 30 minutes of cleaning the cloth only looked a year old ) Not bad for the amount of shots done on it.

On my table in the shop we just play and experiment very little and the jump spots are barely noticeable.

I would not let rank beginners attempt to jump shots or masse' shots on your table. Unless YOU know that THEY know what they are doing I wouldn't allow it unsupervised. Just like a masse' a jump shot is a shot that requires a certain skill set that must be practiced. For those that can do it then let them.

I have had people with no clue and no training rip my cloth trying stuff that was way outside their skill level. Once trained they were generally good to go but left to their own devices they were a danger to the cloth.

I disagree with Jay about slate getting chipped from bouncing balls. I tried my hardest - almost killing myself in the process - to make a ball damage the slate. I had to know what exactly bouncing balls do or don't do to cloth and slate in order to sell jump cues to room owners. With the normal force exerted on pool balls in order to make them jump I don't see any possible way that a ball could damage a healthy piece of slate.

I suppose that IF the ball landed on a piece of slate the had a fracture or a pre-existing chip then it could cause further damage but even that I doubt because of the cushion that the cloth provides.

If it were me then I would allow jump shots performed by the people I know are skilled enough for them. For practicing I would use a spare piece of cloth and vary the areas of the table you practice in. The nap will come back from the flat spots but NOT if they are beaten beyond the point that the fibers can recover. For occasional random jump shots just keep the table clean and wipe it down with a damp cloth and you won't notice or care about the spots.

Jumpin' Johnny B.

John, I have high regard for your opinion always. But take it from a long time owner of poolrooms, slate can definitely be chipped by balls being thrown onto the table. I've seen the result with my own eyes. Where it will usually happen is right where the seam is between the matching pieces of slate. This is the weak point on the slate, the edge if you will.

This seam is supposed to be filled in when setting up the table, usually with beeswax, plaster or even bondo. But the filler can crack when the table is moved for any reason, and once cracked it is very vulnerable to more damage. I've seen pieces as large as a quarter that separated from the slate. They are usually wafer thin, and only come loose when you take the cloth off to recover the table.

Slate is hard, but brittle. Pool balls are harder, and less brittle! In fact not brittle at all. You could drop a 200 pound piece of slate on a pool ball, and only the slate would break. But drop a pool ball from a few feet high (the height of the lights) onto the slate and it can chip, especially along that precarious edge, which stretches across the table in two places.

Have you ever seen a strong guy try to lift a pool table at one end? It has happened in every poolroom I have ever owned. Sometimes they get the table a few inches or a foot off the ground, and drop it. Good bye seam, good bye filler. The slate has separated and it is quite vulnerable to further damage now.

 

[Thunderball]

where I live are so warped and damaged it's depressing to play on them- it's no fun watching a ball suddenly turn left when it was headed for the pocket.

Probably more of a function of distance the anything imo...hard to keep em up....but humidity and flooring will play a roll as well...which will make it extra hard to hold it level and true.
That said...you have answered your own question.No jumps,no masses period!That would be my approach just do to logistics considering repair.

But I would check and adjust it often,with some care (and time) you may have the only honest slab on the rock...and everyone who cares will know it.Could be fun.

 

[Thunderball]

Have you ever seen a strong guy try to lift a pool table at one end? It has happened in every poolroom I have ever owned. Sometimes they get the table a few inches or a foot off the ground, and drop it.

I've seen it.....one of the better tables in the house too.....ruined after the drop too...

I had no idea it was so common though....geeze...

Drunken Sampson syndrome?WTF?

 

[gobrian77]

But I would check and adjust it often,with some care (and time) you may have the only honest slab on the rock...and everyone who cares will know it.Could be fun.

That's kinda what I was thinking- I've yet to see another quaility table on the island (though there are some really nice homes that might contain one).

John and Jay- thanks a lot for taking the time to answer my question- I appreciate it.

I have a neighbor who bought a used table from Bangkok (middle-of-the-road quality) and had it shipped down to the island (it's currently in storage and I haven't seen it yet- it will be set up next month). When he told me it had arrived I asked him who was going to put it together for him- he asked me what I was talking about. Apparently- instead of hiring someone to do the job correctly- he went the cheapest route possible and had five or six unskilled people wrestle the entire table onto a truck and driven/ferried hundreds of miles to the island, then wrestled off the truck into a storage spot, and it will again be moved in its entirety again pretty soon (and it will need to be turned on its side to fit in the room- I'm gonna have a front-row seat for that- I TRIED to tell him...)- how do you think it's gonna play?

 

[Snapshot9]

I have been wanting to ask this question

and just wanted to get everyone's opinion on it, but:

Do you think that big table jump shots are different from Bar table jump shots? That there are slight differences in the mechanics or the way the balls react? Is it easier to jump on a big table? harder? no difference?

What do you think?

 

[John Barton]

and just wanted to get everyone's opinion on it, but:

Do you think that big table jump shots are different from Bar table jump shots? That there are slight differences in the mechanics or the way the balls react? Is it easier to jump on a big table? harder? no difference?

What do you think?

It's easier to jump on thicker slate. Jumping on the Connelly 2" slate is way easier than on the 3/4" slate found on Valley bar tables.

John

 

[PoolSponge]

I have always found it easier to jump on a 9' over a barbox. A few reasons:

1) many bb have rubber backed cloth which I find cushions the jump in an effort to protect the cloth and table.
2) many bb have a heavier CB.
3) thicker slate seems to lift the CB better.

As a response to the original poster, I agree with the previous answer do not practice in the same area. I feel a jump is no different than a hard break. Same principles. So you have to ask yourself, "will everyone have to soft break?". If you say no, break however you want, then proper jump shots are no different. IMO

Congrats on the new table!

 

[MastersMaster]

Simply stated, jump shots can be hard on a table, particularly if executed improperly. Some else already stated that the slate can chip. This is true. Use the litllle patch of break cloth. You could even place it under the CB when jumping, but the extra thickness from the cloth under the ball will affect how easy one can jump.

 

[John Barton]

I will bet $10,000 that a slate which has no chips or cracks in it will not be harmed in the least from 1000 jump shots. I will pay for the table to be recovered twice and for the third party verification of the condition before and after the test if anyone wants to take me up on this challenge.

I agree that slate can chip on the seams and on the edges. I don't agree that a ball can harm healthy slate that is installed properly. If the slate is cracked to begin with or the seams are not allighed then you have larger issues than jump shots.

Jay this is no slam on you. We agre in prinicple if not actual practice - but I want to make it clear that JUMP SHOTS DO NOT DAMAGE THE SLATE.

Once again JUMP SHOTS DO NOT DAMAGE THE SLATE. If they did then I would owe Diamond billiards and High Country Promotions a lot of money for the slates on the tables used for my sales demos over the past 9 years. I can tell you that hundreds of thousands of jump shots were performed on those tables as well as my own with no damage to the slate.

 

[unknownpro]

I'm (finally) getting a table in a couple of weeks (provided my house is finished ), and I'm pretty concerned with keeping the table in good shape.

I'm covering it with Simonis 860, which isn't available locally so I have to order it from the States (and hire somebody from the factory to make the 450 mile trip from Bangkok to install it)- I'm concerned that jump shots might create "flat" spots that would hinder the balls from rolling true (I kinda doubt the 1" slate will crack or chip... right? ).

One reason I'm wondering about this is that I bought a Sardo Tight-Rack (before researching it) and potential cloth damage was an issue that was often brought up

I'm thinking about a "no jump shots" house rule, but I don't wanna take the aspect out of the game (I like to play 9-ball).

Am I worried over nothing? It's my first table (only an eight-footer but built to international competition specs and pretty darned expensive as the pickings were slim) and I wanna keep it in the best condition possible

Use the Sardo rack. Using the Sardo or a racking template will prevent wear in the racking area. You will eventually get a small hole at the footspot. Then the rack can be moved a fraction up or down and reset. Using old fashioned racks you will wear a trench instead. The trench is much worse.

unknownpro

 

[Art Amato]

Robin,

Your DVD is fantastic. Great job. Wish I had attained it sooner. Thank you.

 

[Ak Guy]

Well.........

It is your able and getting new Simonis cloth is spendy for you. So it is your call entirely and there is nothing wrong with telling guests no jump shots. Efren Reyes played excellent pool and won a lot of money by shooting very good "kick shots".

But, if you are going to play competition and jump shots are allowed I would practice them.

I retired in 2014 and got a good 9 foot table with Simonis Tournament Blue 860 cloth and Aramith balls and also got a Measles ball.

I shoot jump shots on my table and allow others to. Masse shots don't come up often.

I look at my cloth in the same way I look at my cue tips and my guns magazines. They wear out with lots of use and therefore are expendable. I take care of the cloth and keep it clean. When I look at my cloth after 4 years, I think my cloth has many years of use left in it.

I have a very good heavy duty wooden rack, a Bronze colored Delta Elite 13 rack and some Magic Rack templates. I use all of them, depending on mood, game and who I am playing. I like the Delta Elite the best.

You decide on what is best for your table and real friends will be considerate of your wishes.

Best ways to get friends is to get rich, next to that is a big boat, then a good pool table!

 

[ChrisinNC]

I'm (finally) getting a table in a couple of weeks (provided my house is finished ), and I'm pretty concerned with keeping the table in good shape.

I'm covering it with Simonis 860, which isn't available locally so I have to order it from the States (and hire somebody from the factory to make the 450 mile trip from Bangkok to install it)- I'm concerned that jump shots might create "flat" spots that would hinder the balls from rolling true (I kinda doubt the 1" slate will crack or chip... right? ).

One reason I'm wondering about this is that I bought a Sardo Tight-Rack (before researching it) and potential cloth damage was an issue that was often brought up

I'm thinking about a "no jump shots" house rule, but I don't wanna take the aspect out of the game (I like to play 9-ball).

Am I worried over nothing? It's my first table (only an eight-footer but built to international competition specs and pretty darned expensive as the pickings were slim) and I wanna keep it in the best condition possible

I see this is an 11-1/2 year old thread, but to revisit, the bottom line as the previous poster said - your table, your rules. A no jump shot policy is very smart particularly for a home pool table, since most of the players likely playing on a home table will be recreational players anyway. Most recreational players don't even know what a legal jump shot is let alone how to execute one, and will likely try to "dig" under the cue ball with an intentional miscue to get it to jump and that is the real risk of damaging your cloth. If you play competition, when you are alone practicing on your table, I'd certainly learn how to execute a legal jump shot, and you can use a break pad (a 3"x3" piece of Simonis scrap to place under the cue ball) to practice if you'd like to protect your cloth while learning how to jump.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Robin,

Your DVD is fantastic. Great job. Wish I had attained it sooner. Thank you.

If you want to compliment Robin Dodson for her video about jump shots, you may want to try elsewhere. It seems that she has not been on this site in over five years.

 

[Black-Balled]

I see this is an 11-1/2 year old thread

And I still have the same cloth!

 

[Black-Balled]

Yesidoooooo