Can/should 9-ball be made harder?

[cueandcushion]

Short races in 9 ball result in many top players being eliminated. If a local guy in my pool room can run 7 racks then racing to 7 for a big tourny is a joke. It rewards the big breaker more than the better player. Tighten those pockets up, switch to ten ball, and seperate the shortstops from the pros in the major tournaments. Seeded tournaments might not be a bad idea either....but still thinking about the negatives of that. I DO love the constant redraw of the DCC. 9 ball as it is doesnt have the respect it used to. It needs to change...but HOW is still up for debate. I do like some of the other suggestions though...

 

[Scottster]

But I think 10 ball is the better solution.

Here's an alternative to alternate breaks: Play winner breaks, but if the winner has had more breaks than his opponent, his opponent gets to break, and as long as he continues to win games, he continues at the table. Have a one-rack playoff for a tie. That allows racks to be strung together.

Hi Bob, Hope all is well.

IF i was to ever personally promote an event be it 10 ball or 8 ball, this is the format for breaking I would use.

I call it the "Pro Competition break format" (Pro Comp for short).

The format is as follows: Alternate break, but each player can run three racks in one inning before returning the break to his opponent.

This format allows for racks to be strung together, allows an opponent to either put a big lead on his opponent, or make a big comeback on his opponent. So the match is never boring, for example 7-3 alternate break, a chance of a comeback is almost impossible

A player has the chance to put a 4 game swing on his opponent by winning his opponent's break, then break and run three more racks before returning the break. So, referring to the above example of 7-3 match score, the trailing opponent has the chance to tie the match 7-7 in one trip to the table, then giving his opponent a chance to answer by running the set out. Exciting and pressure packed.

 

[CrownCityCorey]

Slow cloth is better. You have to have a "real" stroke to play on it.

9-Ball is fine if you are playing at least races to 13. Preferably race to 21.

10 Ball is great. Still at least a race to 10+.

8 Ball is great. Still at least a race to 10+.

It should all be done on tight pockets. 4-1/2" or under. Straight 45 degree pocket entry angle. No shims.

 

[cheesemouse]

Thanks but I have to give cheesemouse amost of the credit. It does sound interesting. I mean if your playing a match why should you get ball in hand after all balls are cleared? Untill the match is over I say the cueball should never be touched unless there is a foul. I may even try this a little bit. Could catch on you never know. Cheesemouse you should take your idea to someone high up and see what happens.

Harvey...I've all ready taken it to the pool GODS...what more can I do....

 

[driven]

I would like to see the games played on a 5x10 snooker table. Actually I would just like to see them play Snooker more here in the states and put that on TV. Everywhere I go I hear about how it has to be fast for the viewing audiance. How the viewres want to see a guy run out all the time. My question is ....who has tested this theory? Has there been a nation wide poll that I didn't here about? I say its malarcy! I know I would enjoy watching a much more strategic and harder game. Sure One Pocket might put some viewers to sleep but...SNOOKER. I would love to watch snooker on TV. If no Snooker than put them back on the 5x10 with tight pockets.

That would be nice....

I invented a variation of nine ball a few years ago, let me know if you like it
After the break, place the 15 ball in the center of the table for the rest of the game, if any ball touches the 15 it is a foul. I call it 9 ball with a blocker ball.

 

[Marop]

Hi Bob, Hope all is well.

IF i was to ever personally promote an event be it 10 ball or 8 ball, this is the format for breaking I would use.

I call it the "Pro Competition break format" (Pro Comp for short).

The format is as follows: Alternate break, but each player can run three racks in one inning before returning the break to his opponent.

This format allows for racks to be strung together, allows an opponent to either put a big lead on his opponent, or make a big comeback on his opponent. So the match is never boring, for example 7-3 alternate break, a chance of a comeback is almost impossible

A player has the chance to put a 4 game swing on his opponent by winning his opponent's break, then break and run three more racks before returning the break. So, referring to the above example of 7-3 match score, the trailing opponent has the chance to tie the match 7-7 in one trip to the table, then giving his opponent a chance to answer by running the set out. Exciting and pressure packed.

I like this idea a lot, the best of both worlds.

 

[Harvywallbanger]

That would be nice....

I invented a variation of nine ball a few years ago, let me know if you like it
After the break, place the 15 ball in the center of the table for the rest of the game, if any ball touches the 15 it is a foul. I call it 9 ball with a blocker ball.

Sounds interesting enough. I would play it if someone asked me to play but I don't know if it would catch on or not. How about this. After the break your opponent gets to place a white ball with black criss crosses on it any where he or she chooses to try and prevent the run out but its not a foul if you hit it unless you strike it first of course. So basically you could use it to tie up a ball or put it somewhere safe if you dont think your opponent can get out.

EDIT: I forgot they could just park it on the cueball. But yeah your idea is another good one.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Slow cloth is better. You have to have a "real" stroke to play on it.

9-Ball is fine if you are playing at least races to 13. Preferably race to 21.

10 Ball is great. Still at least a race to 10+.

8 Ball is great. Still at least a race to 10+.

It should all be done on tight pockets. 4-1/2" or under. Straight 45 degree pocket entry angle. No shims.

I definitely agree with you that it's not the games that are being played but rather the length of the races that is the problem. The "luck factor" really comes into play in short races of 7 or 9, and a lot of times the lesser skilled player can "get the breaks" needed in these short runs to beat the better player. Any descent player who can string a few racks together can occasionally beat ANYONE in a race to 7 with a little luck. Racing to say "21" though usually rewards the winner based on his/her skill, and there are much fewer upsets. Unfortunately though, tournament time contraints makes it difficult to play these longer matches

I have a different opinion on cloth speed though. I personally find slower cloth MUCH easier to play position on simply due to the facts that you can use more of the stroke spectrum for your speed control and, slow cloth makes english shots much easier and more predictable.
Fast cloth gives you little room for error because the stroke spectrum is much smaller--- the stroke speed is very similar whether you hit the cueball slow or fast, and this makes it tuffer to dial in the correct stroke speed.

Just my opinion though, everyone has their personal views on everything

Rick P.

P.S. Fast cloth also magnifies any dreaded table roll that might be present...

 

[mnorwood]

Bring back the 10 foot tables, slow down the cloth, make the pockets 4 inches and play either 14.1 or 15 ball rotation. That should seperate the men from the boys.

 

[krbsailing]

Pool Needs More $$$ = More Airtime

If you want Pool to be more popular then More $$$ are needed to make it so....unfortnuately the IPT was unsuccessful

IMO the pockets need to be tighter (4" to 4.25"). What are the majority of BCA or APA players using for their felt....maybe the slower cloth would make it more interesting/challenging???

A race to 9 with alternating breaks is a fine format....I love watching pool but, I'd like to see more than one match

A 4 x 9 table is fine too -- I believe the majority of folks play on this size or smaller!?

It would be fun to see more 8-ball, 1 pocket, 7-ball, 10-ball (I don't even know what that is???), Scotch Doubles on TV. But, major advertisers and networks need to be involved to make the $$$ thing happen.

Good discussion folks

 

[despotic931]

I just wanted to state that I dont really hate you Gromulan, I was just so intrigued by the option in the poll that I couldn't resist clicking it hehe

 

[Tennesseejoe]

More interesting??? How about a tournament of 14.1 or 10 ball with 4 inch pockets. Put it on TV, Monday night to compete with Desperate Housewives. Ask Ford, Gerneral Motors, K-Mart to sponsor the program. This will really break throught the ratings. Yea, right!!!

 

[gpeezy]

10 ball

ten ball is a better game to me.its probally the best game to play in action i'm surprised more don't.

 

[gpeezy]

Bring back the 10 foot tables, slow down the cloth, make the pockets 4 inches and play either 14.1 or 15 ball rotation. That should seperate the men from the boys.

i'd like to see a set played in a descent time frame.9 foot tables bring out a lot of dog much less 10 ft.

 

[sjm]

I'll start by suggesting that no game other than one pocket should be played on pockets tighter than 4 1/2".

I'd be fine with a switch to ten ball, but who cares?

In the four major nine ball events of 2006:

Derby City was won by Ralf Souquet
The BCA Open was won by Ralf Souquet
The US Open was won by John Schmidt
The WPC was won by Ronnie Alcano

Nine ball in its current form has the cream rising to the top, and is producing very worthy champions. The last few world champions in nine ball were Immonen, Strickland, Hohmann, Pagulayan, Wu, and Alcano. Enough said.

Still, I say let's lose the jump cue. Won't happen, of course, as it will cost those who manufacture and distribute them (many of whom support pro pool) some sales, but let's overlook that for the moment. The jump cue has, on average, reduced the penalty one must pay for poor position play. In my opinion, if you snooker yourself, you should pay a stiff penalty, just as the old masters did. True, they could push out in the middle of the rack and we can't, but the bottom line was that any advantage they enjoyed prior to running out of position would be wiped out completely. In old times, those who launched the cue ball into the air were deemed inept and laughed at, and that's as it should be!

 

[Tennesseejoe]

I'll start by suggesting that no game other than one pocket should be played on pockets tighter than 4 1/2".

I'd be fine with a switch to ten ball, but who cares?

In the four major nine ball events of 2006:

Derby City was won by Ralf Souquet
The BCA Open was won by Ralf Souquet
The US Open was won by John Schmidt
The WPC was won by Ronnie Alcano

Nine ball in its current form has the cream rising to the top, and is producing very worthy champions. The last few world champions in nine ball were Immonen, Strickland, Hohmann, Pagulayan, Wu, and Alcano. Enough said.

Still, I say let's lose the jump cue. Won't happen, of course, as it will cost those who manufacture and distribute them (many of whom support pro pool) some sales, but let's overlook that for the moment. The jump cue has, on average, reduced the penalty one must pay for poor position play. In my opinion, if you snooker yourself, you should pay a stiff penalty, just as the old masters did. True, they could push out in the middle of the rack and we can't, but the bottom line was that any advantage they enjoyed prior to running out of position would be wiped out completely. In old times, those who launched the cue ball into the air were deemed inept and laughed at, and that's as it should be!

SJM---Good post. Maybe 4 1/2 inch pockets for golf also.
Even though the jump stick does require a developed skill---there are some sports that do not allow new types of euipment because it changes the game to much, ie. aluminum bats, inhanced fuel in NASCAR, high performance golf balls, etc.

 

[Jimmy M.]

9-ball was made easier when they introduced Texas Express rules so, sure, it can be made tougher. Should it? I definitely think so. The game was cheapened because it was supposed to be "better for TV" but I don't see TV playing a big part in the game so why is it continued to be played as a bastardized version of what it once was? A fantasy (TV and pool) dictates the rules that it's played by. Even if pool were to get more coverage, why is it so widely accepted that Texas Express rules would be better? Maybe the people who think that are wrong. Maybe the general public isn't as dumb as us genius pool players ( ) like to think, and it might appreciate rules that aren't so Mickey Mouse. It isn't like they show entire matches on TV anyway so does it really matter that the games *might* take longer by playing pre-Texas Express rules? So they just cut out half of an extra rack. Big deal. They cut out entire games like it's nothing. I'm more for protecting the integrity of the game than I am for bending over backward for an imaginary entity that will prefer the cheapened version of the game.

 

[sjm]

SJM---Good post. Maybe 4 1/2 inch pockets for golf also.
Even though the jump stick does require a developed skill---there are some sports that do not allow new types of euipment because it changes the game to much, ie. aluminum bats, inhanced fuel in NASCAR, high performance golf balls, etc.

A truly superb post. I think the jump cue falls into this category. Fellow poster onepocketchump did sensitize me to how much skill there is in jump shots, but I'd still like to see them banned, because I think that nothing is more sacred than position play in pool, and anything that reduces the penalty for position poorly played doesn't sit well with me.

 

[sjm]

9-ball was made easier when they introduced Texas Express rules so, sure, it can be made tougher. Should it? I definitely think so. The game was cheapened because it was supposed to be "better for TV" but I don't see TV playing a big part in the game so why is it continued to be played as a bastardized version of what it once was? A fantasy (TV and pool) dictates the rules that it's played by. Even if pool were to get more coverage, why is it so widely accepted that Texas Express rules would be better? Maybe the people who think that are wrong. Maybe the general public isn't as dumb as us genius pool players ( ) like to think, and it might appreciate rules that aren't so Mickey Mouse. It isn't like they show entire matches on TV anyway so does it really matter that the games *might* take longer by playing pre-Texas Express rules? So they just cut out half of an extra rack. Big deal. They cut out entire games like it's nothing. I'm more for protecting the integrity of the game than I am for bending over backward for an imaginary entity that will prefer the cheapened version of the game.

Some interesting food for thought in your post, Jimmy.

 

[curlyscues]

shoot out

turn the clock back 30 or so years. shoot out or push out 9-ball was fun and made you think more. 2 fouls for ball in hand. 1st foul cueball in the kitchen 2nd anywhere. push outs on all balls makes you think. and turning back the clock 30yrs makes me young again.
M.C.