Can you jump in 14.1

The only jump shot in straight pool, that at least for me is a viable shot but is still much less than a common occurrence, but not unusual, happens mostly on a secondary break with a slighter angle into the stack than you would like when you are close to the object ball. Elevating the stick to cause the cue ball to hop up into the center of the stack and kind of mushroom them open from the middle.

But, thats really a different thing I suppose.
 
3andstop said:
The only jump shot in straight pool, that at least for me is a viable shot but is still much less than a common occurrence, but not unusual, happens mostly on a secondary break with a slighter angle into the stack than you would like when you are close to the object ball. Elevating the stick to cause the cue ball to hop up into the center of the stack and kind of mushroom them open from the middle.

But, thats really a different thing I suppose.
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Dam i truelly strated a goo Thing here didn't I .
I jump over a ball today with another ball .to make it go in the pocket .Without a jump q. i gues that was good cause i won by that one shot ,Thanks guys...
 
gulfportdoc said:
I agree. Pool was meant to be played in two dimensions, not three. IMO jump shots ought not to be permitted in any type of pool tournament.

Doc
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Doc,
Why do you feel this is necessary?? Jump shots are awesome...... You either

A: can't jump very good.
B: play safe a lot and the people you're playing jump out of them.
C: just living in the past and don't want to keep up with the rest of us.

Let's face it... Straight pool is just like any other pocket billiard game played on a pool table. If you see a shot to jump, JUMP IT!!! If you dont want someone jumping shots on you, here is a hint

PLAY SAFE BETTER

The closer you put the cue ball to another ball, the less chance someone has to jump...
 
Consider this. What would you think of a device such as a laser aiming aid attached to your stick, or even hand held for example that you can take out and judge angles with.

Or what about placing a mirror on the rail to help determine bank lines.

I believe the point is, to play the game with the stick you are using.

If 9 ball didn't reduce the beauty of the game of pool to what it has, and if a generation of players hadn't come and gone without even knowing the beauty of real pool, these jump shot sticks wouldn't even be an issue.
 
3andstop said:
Consider this. What would you think of a device such as a laser aiming aid attached to your stick, or even hand held for example that you can take out and judge angles with.

Or what about placing a mirror on the rail to help determine bank lines.

I believe the point is, to play the game with the stick you are using.

If 9 ball didn't reduce the beauty of the game of pool to what it has, and if a generation of players hadn't come and gone without even knowing the beauty of real pool, these jump shot sticks wouldn't even be an issue.
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You talk as if a jump stick is cheating...... It's not easy to execute an accurate jump shot, regular or jump cue. When you jump a ball you are trying to either prevent from fouling, make a ball, or both. Most of the time you are just trying to prevent a foul and if it goes in, it goes in. It's not a training tool to help you make shots, you actually have to know how to jump and practice if you plan to be consistent. Try this for example set up a full 9ft table length shot and execute it 30 times.

>>>I BET YOU MISS MORE THAN YOU MAKE<<<

Then after that try and set up the same shot and make it 30 times while playing position on another ball.... See how many times you can do it. Once you've done that, come back on here and tell me whether you think jump cues should be used in tournaments or not.

Jump shots are very inconsistent and very hard to be accurate with position afterwards.
 
Hustla,

It seems most of your defense of the jump cue has more to do with 9-ball than with straight pool.

Most of the times it will be used in straight pool is if a ball is hanging near a pocket which you can't see. Often it will be an insurance ball you kept after a secondary break shot, but your execution was poor, leaving you no direct shot at it. The jump cue, therefore, is merely getting you out of trouble which you got yourself into.

You talk about jumping and the difficulty in playing position, but again, this is 14.1, not 9-ball. Almost certainly you don't even have to play great position off the jump, because you might have 6 or 7 shots to choose from afterwards. You are not playing position on just one ball.

It's not about playing safe better, as you mentioned to another poster. Many times, it's better to leave someone safe in 14.1 away from the rack, not directly stuck on it. If you leave someone stuck on the rack, he very often has an easy return safe.

- Steve
 
xXHustlaXx said:
You talk as if a jump stick is cheating...... It's not easy to execute an accurate jump shot, regular or jump cue. When you jump a ball you are trying to either prevent from fouling, make a ball, or both. Most of the time you are just trying to prevent a foul and if it goes in, it goes in. It's not a training tool to help you make shots, you actually have to know how to jump and practice if you plan to be consistent. Try this for example set up a full 9ft table length shot and execute it 30 times.

>>>I BET YOU MISS MORE THAN YOU MAKE<<<

Then after that try and set up the same shot and make it 30 times while playing position on another ball.... See how many times you can do it. Once you've done that, come back on here and tell me whether you think jump cues should be used in tournaments or not.

Jump shots are very inconsistent and very hard to be accurate with position afterwards.
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Jump shots historically have never been a part of straight pool. Period.

As a 9 ball player I can jump with the best of them - WITHOUT a phenolic tip - never had one - never will - won't ever need one - don't want one - and I don't miss more than I make, trust me on that.

Jump shots are still "new" to pool. In the past, there was no jumping in straight pool at all. Recently they have begun to allow jump shots - but in the past it wasn't even part of the game - nor was the shot acceptable under any circumstances. I have never even attempted a jump shot in straight pool, and I have a couple of 200+ runs to my credit and I have been playing the game for 30+ years. That leads me to believe that you don't need to jump if you're playing the correct shots and the correct patterns - so I practice that instead.
 
Blackjack said:
I have a couple of 200+ runs to my credit and I have been playing the game for 30+ years. That leads me to believe that you don't need to jump if you're playing the correct shots and the correct patterns - so I practice that instead.
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I will be moving to Miami soon, on my way I should stop in where you are and you can show me these bada$$ skills of yours. I'll even pay to see you run a 200+ and if you can't do it you pay me. 3 to 1 odds... Whatever amount doesn't matter.
 
xXHustlaXx said:
I will be moving to Miami soon, on my way I should stop in where you are and you can show me these bada$$ skills of yours. I'll even pay to see you run a 200+ and if you can't do it you pay me. 3 to 1 odds... Whatever amount doesn't matter.
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Great. I'm not hard to find. I never promised you I could run a 200 on command, but I will play you whatever you want to play.

Now, quit trolling our peaceful straight pool forum before you end up in FastLarryland with all of the other idiots.
 
Blackjack said:
Great. I'm not hard to find. I never promised you I could run a 200 on command, but I will play you whatever you want to play.

Now, quit trolling our peaceful straight pool forum before you end up in FastLarryland with all of the other idiots.
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Well said, David!!
 
RayDM said:
the only reason a new generation even plays pool at all is because of 9ball.
don't get me wrong, I love all pool games, 1-P first, then 9ball, straight, 8-ball, but without 9ball, IMO pool would be dead.
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I understand your point of view Ray, but from mine, it's already dead. :(
 
Seems to me that the purist have a logical consistency problem here.

1. A masse shot often leaves the table and it may be intentional.

2. A power break from below center makes the cue ball float or leave the table. This often happens when forcing a draw shot.

3. Force follow will make the cue ball jump up and down as it goes down table.

4. When a jump shot is executed it is usually obvious but it does not have to be obvious to clear a small portion of an interfering ball.

If all of these shots are legal then why should one not be able to intentionally jump with the cue ball.

Just because old timers did not do it and ruled out intentional jumps all of the other shots were used were they not?

I am neither pro or con jump shots. I just see a logical problem here.
 
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JoeW said:
Seems to me that the purist have a logical consistency problem here.... I am neither pro or con jump shots. I just see a logical problem here.
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A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.

With thanks to Mr. Emerson :)
 
JoeW said:
Just because old timers did not do it and ruled out intentional jumps all of the other shots were used were they not?

I am neither pro or con jump shots. I just see a logical problem here.
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Joe,

You make great points, but I look at it like this - I grew up in New Jersey learning to play this game by watching Mizerak, Murphy, Colavita, and at times Mosconi. When I read your post last night, the first thought that came to mind was ... how would Willie have reacted if I elevated my cue and jumped over the stack to make a ball hanging in the pocket... then I tried to imagine the look that he would have had on his face. It wasn't pretty.

I ran that same scenario through my mind and I just changed the legend that was sitting in the chair. In my imaginary situations, the Miz got out of his chair, looked at me, then the table - his eyes shifting back to the cue ball and that back to me with this confused grin on his face. He then said... "what the hell are you doing?" lol. Colavita basically did the same thing and then he grabbed the cue ball. Murphy laughed his ass off at me, and I pictured Willie getting pissed off and actually calling me an A-hole. IMO, that's pretty close to what would have happened in reality in all 4 cases.

Purist? Perhaps so. However, I would never want to embarrass myself like that with those ghosts watching over my shoulder. As crazy as it may seem, that's how my logic works in this situation.
 
A real old timer

Jwpretd?s quote is good and to assist with Blackjack's position allow me another quote.

"You say I contradict myself, I am big enough to encompass contradiction."

Walt Whitman.
 
Interesting to know. Even thogh I own a jump cue and love to use it, I think a combo is easier then a jump anyday. Unless of course it's a multi ball combo.

do mean to offend, I am mearly a 14:1 newbie!
 
People seem to feel that a player who misses shape deserves to be screwed and shouldn't be allowed to shoot his way out of it. Yet NO run of hundreds of balls (to my knowledge) happened without missed shape and difficult shots. Why is the guy who banks his way out of trouble to continue the run a hero and the guy who jumps out of trouble a villain?

I don't get these complaints that the shot is too easy. Easy shots are the backbone of straight pool. They're supposed to be easy. I guess some feel that it rewards sloppy players, or whatever... but you don't run lots of balls being sloppy. Who cares if (and this is a generous estimate) a player has to get out of jail with the jump cue about 1 out of 50 shots? We ALL have to get out of jail using varying degrees of trick shooting once in a while.

If someone runs 550-600 and uses trick shots with the jump cue to boot, I promise you they're as good at straight pool as mosconi, and they can do something he maybe couldn't.
 
The Miz

Blackjack said:
Joe,

You make great points, but I look at it like this - I grew up in New Jersey learning to play this game by watching Mizerak, Murphy, Colavita, and at times Mosconi. When I read your post last night, the first thought that came to mind was ... how would Willie have reacted if I elevated my cue and jumped over the stack to make a ball hanging in the pocket... then I tried to imagine the look that he would have had on his face. It wasn't pretty.

I ran that same scenario through my mind and I just changed the legend that was sitting in the chair. In my imaginary situations, the Miz got out of his chair, looked at me, then the table - his eyes shifting back to the cue ball and that back to me with this confused grin on his face. He then said... "what the hell are you doing?" lol. Colavita basically did the same thing and then he grabbed the cue ball. Murphy laughed his ass off at me, and I pictured Willie getting pissed off and actually calling me an A-hole. IMO, that's pretty close to what would have happened in reality in all 4 cases.

Purist? Perhaps so. However, I would never want to embarrass myself like that with those ghosts watching over my shoulder. As crazy as it may seem, that's how my logic works in this situation.
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I have video of the Miz using a jump cue (I think after the break, but I really don't remember off hand). I think the video is from the late 80s, early 90s (again not sure). He was playing an unknown (to me). The commentators were pretty shocked, but he did make the ball.

I don't know if you were only talking about jumping the pack, or jumping anything. I think he just jumped one or two balls in this case, not the pack.

I'm glad to hear you have some idea of where your logic comes from though.:)
 
Straight pool is a game for pure pool skills. The use of a jump cue just seems wrong. I can't justify my feelings about it. It just seems wrong. I think if I were watching a straight pool match, or playing in one, and a player pulled out the jump stick I'd just leave.... unscrew and split. It would be enough to make me not go out anymore and limit my play to my house. Some things shouldn't change. Can't say why. They just shouldn't.
 
arsenius said:
I have video of the Miz using a jump cue (I think after the break, but I really don't remember off hand). I think the video is from the late 80s, early 90s (again not sure). He was playing an unknown (to me). The commentators were pretty shocked, but he did make the ball.

I don't know if you were only talking about jumping the pack, or jumping anything. I think he just jumped one or two balls in this case, not the pack.

I'm glad to hear you have some idea of where your logic comes from though.:)
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Was it straight pool or 9 ball? I have never heard of Mizerak performing a jump shot in straight pool. Steve was one of the guys that wanted jump cues out of the PBT and I remember Steve was very vocal about it. Allen Hopkins put it up for a vote - and believe it or not - THE PLAYERS voted jump cues out. So they were not legal on the pro tour for a while - as a direct result of players like Steve saying that the jump cues had gotten ridiculous(this was in 1992-1993 time frame). Some of the contraptions that people were coming up with were getting out of hand, and I think the players made the right choice to limit jump shots to using your playing cue. I'm not doubting what you are saying, I'm just not sure because you didn't specify if Mizerak was playing 9 ball or 14.1 when he pulled out the jump cue. If he was playing 14.1, I'm shocked - and many others would be shocked also.
 
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