Can You Lose Your Amateur Status - Brian Parks

[KRJ]

years ago when I played softball we had several guys in our league that had played at the pro level. No one ever complained . Reading this thread gives credence to the reputation of pool players whining about everything.

tap,tap, tap,

Yep, in our amateur baseball league, you could play if you were a pro, which means you played in minor league ball affiliated with a Major League team, but you had to wait 5 years since your last game played. So, we had some guys that should have been pro but didn't go for various reasons, and guys that were pro and waited the 5 year term to play.

Either way, not one complaint, other than how do we get them on our team next year. Oh, and we NEVER made a dime playing, nothing. We paid about $400 per player to play on the team as renting HS and college fields are not dirt cheap, paying 2 umpires for every game, plus baseballs, and other stuff. So, it came out to be about $20 per game to play for 2 hours. A little more expensive than pool, with NO payout at the end, nothing, nada, zilch. It was for bragging rights only, and that was enough.

 

[dardusm]

I doubt you should/could lose your "Amateur" status for winning a tourney multiple times that pays absolutely ZERO. You have to actually go in the hole(negative) EVERYTIME you attend the U.S. Amateur as far as expense/tourney is concerned. I really have no idea why ANYONE would play this thing, except for a weekend vacation to the Florida beaches. From a financial point of view it makes absolutely ZERO sense

For most players, playing the game makes no financial sense. It's about entertainment and competition. I doubt that many players take up the game in this country because of the money. They just fell in love with it and a few decided to try to make money. For the majority it's still a hobby. I've played in many tournaments where it didn't make financial sense to play including the US Amateur. The travel, expense, stiff competition, etc. but the overall experience made it worth it financially.

The players in the US Amateur are going for the experience, competition, recognition, friends, vacation and many other reasons. If you are playing pool just for the monetary aspect then most are better off just getting a part time job because that would make much more financial sense.

 

[Blackjack]

... once you start winning pro tournaments you are no longer an amateur. Or when your Fargo rating is 721 you are past amateur

I disagree with you entirely.

As a coach, I work with Brian from time to time. During that process, he and I have become friends.

I can go on and on telling you how he perseveres through personal and professional challenges - but according to so many people - none of that matters ... because if he plays well - or if he plays well enough to win consistently - then it just has to be unfair. I don't understand why so many people think that way. Shouldn't we want our champions to have these qualities?

A lot of people don't want to hear it - but the professional challenges are a full time job with an insurance company - as well as being the owner of a pool hall. Those professional challenges create an entire host of personal challenges. A lot of players that play at or beyond Brian's level usually don't even have a job - and Brian has two demanding professions. For him, pool is not his profession - it is a side activity - and it just so happens that he's one of the best at it.

Striving to be the best and becoming the best is what the journey is all about. For those that say he has far surpassed his peers at this level of competition - let me point out that Brian has won and lost at this event. It takes a great player to beat him, but it can be done - and it has been done.

Despite all of the crap and criticism that he receives every year - Brian conducts himself like a gentleman.

Despite people trying to push him up to "pro level status" (like he has the time for it - lol) Brian continues to take care of his family first. Brian's priorities are set to meet the needs of his family - not the opinions of people on the internet.

I think that's a good call on his part.

Brian works hard on his game so that he can play his very best game when he competes. Sometimes he doesn't have a lot of time - and sometimes he doesn't have any time - yet he finds away to keep his game where it's at. No points for style - but knowing what I know - I admire the guy.

Despite anything that I say ... you and many others believe we should take away Brian's amateur status because nobody seems to be able to beat him. Truth is, Brian's game is the standard that every player in the U.S. should be striving for.

Instead of pushing Brian out - people should be finding out what he is doing - and then - start implementing some of those things into their own life and into their own game. Doing that might change their attitude - and perhaps then, it might change their perspective.

Banning him and making the field easier is something that no "true competitor" would want anyway. Just ask all of the opponents that he competes with at these events ... they don't seem to have a problem with Brian being there - nor does the APA. Why should anybody else?

Every year it seems that we have a bunch of people on the internet that complain about how unfair this is - pointing out what a travesty it is that Brian competes in and wins an event that pays him nothing more than a nice trophy and a chance to compete in the U.S. Open. All we hear about is how the rules and standards need to be changed - and the people that bring that up are absolutely correct ...

The standard to win the U.S. Amateur should be a very high standard - and that standard should always RISE and never FALL.

That way we have a deserving champion every year - a champion that pushes everybody else to to bring their game to the absolute highest level and beyond.

Just an opinion from the inside looking out.

 

[skip100]

I disagree with you entirely.

As a coach, I work with Brian from time to time. During that process, he and I have become friends.

I can go on and on telling you how he perseveres through personal and professional challenges - but according to so many people - none of that matters ... because if he plays well - or if he plays well enough to win consistently - then it just has to be unfair. I don't understand why so many people think that way. Shouldn't we want our champions to have these qualities?

A lot of people don't want to hear it - but the professional challenges are a full time job with an insurance company - as well as being the owner of a pool hall. Those professional challenges create an entire host of personal challenges. A lot of players that play at or beyond Brian's level usually don't even have a job - and Brian has two demanding professions. For him, pool is not his profession - it is a side activity - and it just so happens that he's one of the best at it.

Striving to be the best and becoming the best is what the journey is all about. For those that say he has far surpassed his peers at this level of competition - let me point out that Brian has won and lost at this event. It takes a great player to beat him, but it can be done - and it has been done.

Despite all of the crap and criticism that he receives every year - Brian conducts himself like a gentleman.

Despite people trying to push him up to "pro level status" (like he has the time for it - lol) Brian continues to take care of his family first. Brian's priorities are set to meet the needs of his family - not the opinions of people on the internet.

I think that's a good call on his part.

Brian works hard on his game so that he can play his very best game when he competes. Sometimes he doesn't have a lot of time - and sometimes he doesn't have any time - yet he finds away to keep his game where it's at. No points for style - but knowing what I know - I admire the guy.

Despite anything that I say ... you and many others believe we should take away Brian's amateur status because nobody seems to be able to beat him. Truth is, Brian's game is the standard that every player in the U.S. should be striving for.

Instead of pushing Brian out - people should be finding out what he is doing - and then - start implementing some of those things into their own life and into their own game. Doing that might change their attitude - and perhaps then, it might change their perspective.

Banning him and making the field easier is something that no "true competitor" would want anyway. Just ask all of the opponents that he competes with at these events ... they don't seem to have a problem with Brian being there - nor does the APA. Why should anybody else?

Every year it seems that we have a bunch of people on the internet that complain about how unfair this is - pointing out what a travesty it is that Brian competes in and wins an event that pays him nothing more than a nice trophy and a chance to compete in the U.S. Open. All we hear about is how the rules and standards need to be changed - and the people that bring that up are absolutely correct ...

The standard to win the U.S. Amateur should be a very high standard - and that standard should always RISE and never FALL.

That way we have a deserving champion every year - a champion that pushes everybody else to to bring their game to the absolute highest level and beyond.

Just an opinion from the inside looking out.

So you believe that if, say, Hunter Lombardo or Tony Robles decided to become a full-time insurance agent then he should be allowed to play in the "US Amateur"?

I have no reason not to believe you that Brian is a nice and hard-working guy. But if you don't categorize one of the best 100 players in America as "pro" level then the distinction between amateur and professional is meaningless. Per FargoRate Brian is well inside the top 100.

 

[lorider]

I disagree with you entirely.

As a coach, I work with Brian from time to time. During that process, he and I have become friends.

I can go on and on telling you how he perseveres through personal and professional challenges - but according to so many people - none of that matters ... because if he plays well - or if he plays well enough to win consistently - then it just has to be unfair. I don't understand why so many people think that way. Shouldn't we want our champions to have these qualities?

A lot of people don't want to hear it - but the professional challenges are a full time job with an insurance company - as well as being the owner of a pool hall. Those professional challenges create an entire host of personal challenges. A lot of players that play at or beyond Brian's level usually don't even have a job - and Brian has two demanding professions. For him, pool is not his profession - it is a side activity - and it just so happens that he's one of the best at it.

Striving to be the best and becoming the best is what the journey is all about. For those that say he has far surpassed his peers at this level of competition - let me point out that Brian has won and lost at this event. It takes a great player to beat him, but it can be done - and it has been done.

Despite all of the crap and criticism that he receives every year - Brian conducts himself like a gentleman.

Despite people trying to push him up to "pro level status" (like he has the time for it - lol) Brian continues to take care of his family first. Brian's priorities are set to meet the needs of his family - not the opinions of people on the internet.

I think that's a good call on his part.

Brian works hard on his game so that he can play his very best game when he competes. Sometimes he doesn't have a lot of time - and sometimes he doesn't have any time - yet he finds away to keep his game where it's at. No points for style - but knowing what I know - I admire the guy.

Despite anything that I say ... you and many others believe we should take away Brian's amateur status because nobody seems to be able to beat him. Truth is, Brian's game is the standard that every player in the U.S. should be striving for.

Instead of pushing Brian out - people should be finding out what he is doing - and then - start implementing some of those things into their own life and into their own game. Doing that might change their attitude - and perhaps then, it might change their perspective.

Banning him and making the field easier is something that no "true competitor" would want anyway. Just ask all of the opponents that he competes with at these events ... they don't seem to have a problem with Brian being there - nor does the APA. Why should anybody else?

Every year it seems that we have a bunch of people on the internet that complain about how unfair this is - pointing out what a travesty it is that Brian competes in and wins an event that pays him nothing more than a nice trophy and a chance to compete in the U.S. Open. All we hear about is how the rules and standards need to be changed - and the people that bring that up are absolutely correct ...

The standard to win the U.S. Amateur should be a very high standard - and that standard should always RISE and never FALL.

That way we have a deserving champion every year - a champion that pushes everybody else to to bring their game to the absolute highest level and beyond.

Just an opinion from the inside looking out.

Well stated. Thank you for sharing your experience with Brian.

I wish more people had your perspective on this subject.

Sad state in pool when you win a local bar tournament 2 times in a row and are banned

Win a local handicap tournament a couple times and are banned after you are raised to the highest level

 

[chevybob20]

I doubt you should/could lose your "Amateur" status for winning a tourney multiple times that pays absolutely ZERO. You have to actually go in the hole(negative) EVERYTIME you attend the U.S. Amateur as far as expense/tourney is concerned. I really have no idea why ANYONE would play this thing, except for a weekend vacation to the Florida beaches. From a financial point of view it makes absolutely ZERO sense

It's much worse than that. There's no time to go to the beach. The only real reason to go is for the love of the game and the spirit of competition.

This touney is for the love of the game. It's for all the people who eek out those 15 precious minutes a day to practice in between taking care of their family and earning a living. It's for the people who realized early on that the game they love won't support a family so they went and obtained a real job.

As a result, this is the best tourney in America. The people that compete in this show love and respect for the game.

 

[chevybob20]

By moving on, I mean playing against other players outside of league. I don’t know where you play, but if I quit playing league, I could play people anytime I want, in multiple locations. The purpose of a league is to compete against other skill levels using a handicapped system to level the field. Many players, not just Brian, are too far beyond the field to allow this. At that point they should go pro, play for money, teach or just play for fun like most pool players. Not that complicated.

The APA runs this tourney but there is no requirement to play in leagues. This is not a league tourney.

I participate every year but haven't played in the APA for at least 6 years nor any league for at least 3 years (maybe more. I can't remember). This is a "run what you brung" tourney for working stiffs exactly like Brian.

He's the king of the hill...for now. :wink:

Congratulations, Brian.

Sine Labore Nihil

 

[lorider]

So you believe that if, say, Hunter Lombardo or Tony Robles decided to become a full-time insurance agent then he should be allowed to play in the "US Amateur"?

I have no reason not to believe you that Brian is a nice and hard-working guy. But if you don't categorize one of the best 100 players in America as "pro" level then the distinction between amateur and professional is meaningless. Per FargoRate Brian is well inside the top 100.

Unless I am mistaken both Tony and hunter are established pros. I dont think getting a job would suddenly drop you to am amateur again..

Btw ...hunter is playing in the world 9 ball championship in dohar this week. A far cry from playing for a trophy in an amateur tournament.

 

[skip100]

Unless I am mistaken both Tony and hunter are established pros. I dont think getting a job would suddenly drop you to am amateur again..

Btw ...hunter is playing in the world 9 ball championship in dohar this week. A far cry from playing for a trophy in an amateur tournament.

The only reason they are "established" pros is that they (presumably) don't have another job. By the logic used here if they became insurance salesmen then they are not pool professionals and would therefore qualify for participation in the US Amateur tournament. They have the same Fargo rating as Brian Parks.

 

[lorider]

The only reason they are "established" pros is that they (presumably) don't have another job. By the logic used here if they became insurance salesmen then they are not pool professionals and would therefore qualify for participation in the US Amateur tournament. They have the same Fargo rating as Brian Parks.

They would still be pros ....just like mike dechaine went to selling windows I heard. Using your logic mike would suddenly become an amateur because he got a job.

Logic also indicates there is a big difference between a guy who has never been declared a pro holding a job and guys who have been declared pros going out and getting jobs.

Using hunter again. Big difference between some one who entered what was basically a local tournament...Brian at hard times and some one who goes and plays on the world stage such as hunter . Completely different paths in their pool playing ventures.

Also hunter is # 86 on the money leader board and Brian is 241.

 

[lorider]

Curious as to how many times brian has played in the us amateur. Do you think every one who has ever won it should be a pro ...or just Brian because he has won it 5 times ?

 

[skip100]

"Using your logic mike would suddenly become an amateur because he got a job."

That's exactly my point. I don't think that argument makes sense. But that's the logic used by people who argue that Brian should qualify as an amateur even though he is just as good as established professionals.

"Also hunter is # 86 on the money leader board and Brian is 241."

Of course they are going to be different on the money leaderboard. If Hunter got a job as an insurance salesman he would plummet down the pool money leaderboard too.

 

[realkingcobra]

The only reason they are "established" pros is that they (presumably) don't have another job. By the logic used here if they became insurance salesmen then they are not pool professionals and would therefore qualify for participation in the US Amateur tournament. They have the same Fargo rating as Brian Parks.

Well, Steve Miz was a full time grade school teacher and Irving Crane was a car sales man, should they have been considered amateurs?

 

[skip100]

Well, Steve Miz was a full time grade school teacher and Irving Crane was a car sales man, should they have been considered amateurs?

I agree with you that this argument is specious.

 

[MattPoland]

As far as I can tell Brian is simply a strong AA player that has entered the tournament frequently and consistently done well. He’d be considered an amateur at the tournaments in Michigan and not have the highest Fargo rating in the room. Any strong AA player should be able to compete with professionals and have a good showing of it. The difference will show over the long run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[lorider]

The only reason they are "established" pros is that they (presumably) don't have another job. By the logic used here if they became insurance salesmen then they are not pool professionals and would therefore qualify for participation in the US Amateur tournament. They have the same Fargo rating as Brian Parks.

I am sorry but this post made me laugh. I am not nor have I ever disputed Briana level of play.

I guess you really cant see the difference between some one that held a full time job consistently while playing mostly in amateur events and a couple of guys who turned pro....traveled around playing pro events ...even in world tournaments...deciding to get a job and go back to being an amateur.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Thought so

U

Why are you so interested in defending the stance that you can make as much as you want and be any skill you want and still be an amateur? I don’t care about the APA, the original question was about when should you not be allowed to be an amateur. This applies to APA, NAPA, BCA, TAP, etc...

If I could, I would delete this thread as it has been hijacked. If it makes you (or anyone else reading this) feel good to beat up on lesser competition. Good for you! Anyone with intelligence understands there is a point at which, for the integrity of the sport, governing bodies should act. Just because something is allowed, it doesn’t make it right or just. Look at all the people that bought a house and filed bankruptcy when it wasn’t worth what the paid. The rules allow it so it must be okay ��. The doctor will give me a handicapped tag cause I say I have some pain, so it must be okay��

Philosophy professionals lurking in this thread claiming amateur status. Say it ain't so !

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Please delete this thread after this post

APA banned Mike Babyface Gulyassy from our APA Master league in Dallas. He Hadn't played professionally in years. The whiners and APA cheapened the league by kicking him out.
As with anything in life, paraphrasing a bit, "He who has the gold makes the rules".

I appreciate all of the posters in this thread. I hereby implore the mods to not delete the thread.

 

[JohnnyOzone]

Well, Steve Miz was a full time grade school teacher and Irving Crane was a car sales man, should they have been considered amateurs?

If they had played only for the title, and did not accept prize money, then yes

 

[Scott Lee]

All of the amateur handicapped leagues play for cash prizes, whether at the local level, regional level or national level. So, under your philosophy, all the BCAPL, VNEA, TAP league, and any other league that pays cash prizes for tournaments...all of those cash winners should be declared "pros"? Ludicrous at worst...Ridiculous at best!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

If they had played only for the title, and did not accept prize money, then yes