Can you spot where the "round points" end and the "Sharpee'd points" begin?

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hangemhigh said:
Because you are saying he says it is not doctored but he has not examined the cue personally. You keep saying you will take it to him to have a look. I know I do not need to tell you you can not have it both ways. It really makes you look bad.
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Have it both ways ? Not sure what your talking about here .
Honestly If you or anyone else thinks this makes me look bad
I couldnt give a shit less . I have got a lot of supportive pm/email/rep and phone calls about this . Not to mention I spoke with Evan myself and he assured me there is nothing wrong with this cue . Rather than bashing me why has someone not called him I posted the number . First the buyer tells me in pm he wants to wait and see what Evan says . Well now we know Evan is saying it is an R2 with nothing altered and that is not good enough for the buyer.

I listed and sold an Schon R2
 
rigmaster said:
Spelling his name wrong is not your only mistake ! I don't have to call Evan I know this is not a R series Schon made by Bob Runde if Evan made it it's not a real R series and it was made on a cnc THIS is FACT not opinion! Ron
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This is in fact your opinion :D :D :D
 
Are you going to refund him with WheatBucks? Sorry, this is getting silly.

1) Seller lists a Schon for sale - model R2
2) Buyer assumes that it is a full spliced point cue because it is listed as a Runde Schon, and, I assume, because pictures provided by seller were not detailed enough to show what he has now seen since he has the cue in hand.
3) Buyer received cue, and sees what we see in the pictures (STROOOOOONG) opinion is that the point were doctored in some way whether cut over by hand after CNC, sharpied in, whatever.
4) Buyer wants refund
5) Seller says "It is an R2 live with it", until he gets seriously razzed by many posting in the thread.
6) Seller states that the it came that way from Schon, per Mr. Clarke
Did I miss something?
Again, my question to you: What would you do if you were the buyer in this case? You agree to purchase a cue from someone, and see pictures of it on the net. It looks really nice. You receive the cue, and it is not what you expected, whether the seller misrepresented it or not. The cue has, at least in your mind as a buyer, been doctored to look like the type of cue you assumed you were buying. Do you want the seller to take the cue back and refund your money plus shipping? I don't think this really has anything to do with whether the cue is actually an R2 or not. I think it is about whether the points were CNCd or not, and doctored up whether at the Schon shop, afterwards, whereever. I think you are possibly placing Evan's reputation on the line here regarding the integrity of his workmanship. I would like to see his response in this post if possible.
 
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iowa_player said:
I will not eat the shipping I have done nothing wrong .
Call Even Clarke your self I posted the number !!!
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Dude, Shipping to LA To NY is like $15 max. Via USPS Priority.

The Fair thing to do is give the entirety of the money back with shipping or at least Split the shipping. The buyer will pay for the shipping back of the cue, and you pay him back for the original shipping hence a full refund.

Even though you didn't do anything wrong and the Schon has been passed on through various buyers and sellers, you have been unfortunately the one who has been faced with this discovery.

It is unfortunate that the defect was brought up when it was your turn to sell the cue, but the buyer shouldn't have to keep the cue. A refund, FULL REFUND. And he will pay for the shipping of the cue back. That is fair. I think that $10-15 bucks loss wouldn't be such a big deal opposed to a defective cue. Let it go and be civil about this. The cue is obviously been Sharpied on according to the picture, and if you want to fight it, just Sand down the Butt.
 
OK it is what it is but if you take it to Evan he may say it's his version of a R2(which is on the bottom of the series of 16) That someone screwed it up with a sharpie Not even Evan would use a sharpie to make it look hand spliced like the master Bob Runde Take it to him and post his reply! Have a nice day! Ron
 
iowa_player said:
Have it both ways ? Not sure what your talking about here .
Honestly If you or anyone else thinks this makes me look bad
I couldnt give a shit less . I have got a lot of supportive pm/email/rep and phone calls about this . Not to mention I spoke with Evan myself and he assured me there is nothing wrong with this cue . Rather than bashing me why has someone not called him I posted the number . First the buyer tells me in pm he wants to wait and see what Evan says . Well now we know Evan is saying it is an R2 with nothing altered and that is not good enough for the buyer.

I listed and sold an Schon R2
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You spoke to Evan without Evan having the cue in front of him !!!! Please understand this. This is what is meant by having it both ways.
You stated his opinion in defensive yet agreed that you need to take him the cue. He needs to look at the cue in the picture and then give his opinion. Not go off of recollection of some cue he had in the past.

Ask him if he ever made any Runde era R-2s? I understand that Runde made all the cues then.
 
cuenut said:
Are you going to refund him with WheatBucks? Sorry, this is getting silly.

1) Seller lists a Schon for sale - model R2
2) Buyer assumes that it is a full spliced point cue because it is listed as a Runde Schon, and, I assume, because pictures provided by seller were not detailed enough to show what he has now seen since he has the cue in hand.
3) Buyer received cue, and sees what we see in the pictures (STROOOOOONG) opinion is that the point were doctored in some way whether cut over by hand after CNC, sharpied in, whatever.
4) Buyer wants refund
5) Seller says "It is an R2 live with it", until he gets seriously razzed by many posting in the thread.
6) Seller states that the it came that way from Schon, per Mr. Runde.

Did I miss something?
Again, my question to you: What would you do if you were the buyer in this case? You agree to purchase a cue from someone, and see pictures of it on the net. It looks really nice. You receive the cue, and it is not what you expected, whether the seller misrepresented it or not. The cue has, at least in your mind as a buyer, been doctored to look like the type of cue you assumed you were buying. Do you want the seller to take the cue back and refund your money plus shipping? I don't think this really has anything to do with whether the cue is actually an R2 or not. I think it is about whether the points were CNCd or not, and doctored up whether at the Schon shop, afterwards, whereever. I think you are possibly placing Evan's reputation on the line here regarding the integrity of his workmanship. I would like to see his response in this post if possible.
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I said in my very first post that I would take the cue back .
I got home that night and got an email from paypal letting me know that he had files a dispute that is the first time I had ever heard that he wanted a refund. Please get your facts right.
 
Simply:

Are you going to refund in full?

Refund options:

1. Refund the original money + (S/H) + (S/H) for the buyer to send the cue back?

2. Refund the original money + orginal S/H and Without the Returning cue's(S/H)?

3. Refund the original money (Without Original S/H and Without Returning Cue (S/H)?

You must agree with the buyer upon one option...or create your own.~
 
iowa_player said:
I said in my very first post that I would take the cue back .
I got home that night and got an email from paypal letting me know that he had files a dispute that is the first time I had ever heard that he wanted a refund. Please get your facts right.
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I apologize for the "no refund until razzed comment". I still have concerns about the cue based upon the pictures.
 
I am realy getting sick of repeating my self so I will copy and paste this response the next 50 times the same subject is brought up again.

1.Send the cue back to me
2. Drop the protest with paypal.
3. I will issue a refund minus shipping as I am not at fault in any way .
4. I talked to Evan Clarke He already knew about this cue and said it was an R2 and I did not mislead the buyer at all . I posted his number call him if you wish . When it comes to Schon cues I will trust Evan's opinion over anyone's except Bob Rhunde .
5. I will not issue a refund of any kind with the paypal dispute still open . that would leave me open to getting screwed twice and that will not happen.


Thats it I am sick of repeating my self . Thats the deal take it or leave it.
As for what anyone thinks this makes me look like I realy dont care as I know I have done nothing wrong and I have the support of those that matter. So if this changes your opinion of me then im sorry for that but I have done NOTHING wrong here . If you think that ganging up on me is going to pressure me into changing me mind you can think again . The buyer is lucky that I am offering a refund at all .

((( Edited to add))) When I get the cue back I hope it is in the exact same condition I sent it in .
If there is any thing done to those points you will be paying me to ship the cue back to you !
So if you have done anything to the finish or those points I will not issue a refund at all I would at that point expect you to pay for the shipping to get it back to you .

Option #2 Send the cue to Evan Clarke at Schon cues if he says I owe you a full refund than I will do that and pay him to ship it back to me . BUT if he says it is in fact an R2 as listed without the points being altered then you arrange shipping the cue back from Evan .

Now bash away ... Larry
 
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Response to "show me a Runde Cue with round points"

Contrary to what many people believe, Runde did make CNC Schons with maple stitch rings and here is an example of one confirmed be Evan and Bob personally.

IMG_4494.jpg


I believe I may have owned the cue in question at one time and never noticed the "sharpie" thing when I had it. To answer the question though, yes Bob Runde did make a CNC'd cue with maple stitch rings at some point.

Doug
 
iowa_player said:
I am realy getting sick of repeating my self so I will copy and paste this response the next 50 times the same subject is brought up again.

1.Send the cue back to me
2. Drop the protest with paypal.
3. I will issue a refund minus shipping as I am not at fault in any way .
4. I talked to Evan Clarke He already knew about this cue and said it was an R2 and I did not mislead the buyer at all . I posted his number call him if you wish . When it comes to Schon cues I will trust Evan's opinion over anyone's except Bob Rhunde .
5. I will not issue a refund of any kind with the paypal dispute still open . that would leave me open to getting screwed twice and that will not happen.


Thats it I am sick of repeating my self . Thats the deal take it or leave it.
As for what anyone thinks this makes me look like I realy dont care as I know I have done nothing wrong and I have the support of those that matter. So if this changes your opinion of me then im sorry for that but I have done NOTHING wrong here . If you think that ganging up on me is going to pressure me into changing me mind you can think again . The buyer is lucky that I am offering a refund at all .

Now bash away ... Larry
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Well Larry,

I think that it is quite fair.

With the issue of paypal dispute, it doesn't matter, If you get the cue and refund the money I believe that the buyer wouldn't need to waste his time further.

Well, I hope you and the buyer come to the understanding and this matter ends here. Reputation is very important and customer service is also a priority as well. I hope that this deal is terminated and everyone can continue. The AZB bandwagon insures a non biased view, we look out for each other. Good luck to both buyer and seller.~

:wink:
 
I am realy getting sick of repeating my self so I will copy and paste this response the next 50 times the same subject is brought up again.

1.Send the cue back to me
2. Drop the protest with paypal.
3. I will issue a refund minus shipping as I am not at fault in any way .
4. I talked to Evan Clarke He already knew about this cue and said it was an R2 and I did not mislead the buyer at all . I posted his number call him if you wish . When it comes to Schon cues I will trust Evan's opinion over anyone's except Bob Rhunde .
5. I will not issue a refund of any kind with the paypal dispute still open . that would leave me open to getting screwed twice and that will not happen.


Thats it I am sick of repeating my self . Thats the deal take it or leave it.
As for what anyone thinks this makes me look like I realy dont care as I know I have done nothing wrong and I have the support of those that matter. So if this changes your opinion of me then im sorry for that but I have done NOTHING wrong here . If you think that ganging up on me is going to pressure me into changing me mind you can think again . The buyer is lucky that I am offering a refund at all .

((( Edited to add))) When I get the cue back I hope it is in the exact same condition I sent it in .
If there is any thing done to those points you will be paying me to ship the cue back to you !
So if you have done anything to the finish or those points I will not issue a refund at all I would at that point expect you to pay for the shipping to get it back to you .

Option #2 Send the cue to Evan Clarke at Schon cues if he says I owe you a full refund than I will do that and pay him to ship it back to me . BUT if he says it is in fact an R2 as listed without the points being altered then you arrange shipping the cue back from Evan .

Now bash away ... Larry
 
iowa_player said:
Ok your right if I have described this cue wrong and its not an R2 then I will also pay the shipping . We will see what Even Clarke has to say whem I drive up to him . I am not going to be out $80 shipping for having did nothing wrong.
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I do not know either of you. I would like to offer my opinion for what it is worth ( prob not much).

I have seen the original thread with the pics and info that you posted.

Your pics clearly show a cue with SHARP points. You also refer to it by model and give a page number in the blue book. Your responses mention the ringwork as proving it is an R2, but you left out the part where it clearly states " The following cues are from Schons fist cataloue, circa 1982. THEY HAD FULL SPLICED POINTS, and are shown with the maple dashed joint rings....... " By all the info that YOU provided it is a schon R2. The book YOU reference also states that it is a full splice cue.

I also find it interesting that the topic of round versus spliced spoints WERE adressed in the same thread regarding this cue.

My opinion is that you did misrepresent this cue. Even if you did so in error, it would be YOUR error, not the buyers. I am NOT suggesting that you INTENTIONALLY did this, but intention does not matter. The facts are that the cue IS NOT what it what was stated.

R2's have spliced points. If this cue is somehow different than what is generally considered an R2, then you should state that.

There is NO WAY that a buyer could have been aware that that cue did not have spliced points by the info you provided. In fact everything (pics, stated model, and blue book reference) claim otherwise. This is the exact definition of misrepresentation.

I would be extremely dissatisfied if I purchased this cue from the information you have given. I would rather have rounded points than sharpeed points. Might as well have a sticker on it.

I would think you chalk this one up to experience, and take the lesson as learned. Inspect/research the item more caefully in the future.

Also, I would think that a refinish is worth mentioning.


I am not trying to stir it up. I am asking you to take a step back, and try to see it as a customer would. I am not accusing you of anything more than not paying proper attention to details. Take it for what it's worth.

Respectfully,
JW
 
What's the problem? It's not uncommon for a cuemaker to paint or fill in the end of his sharp points to get them up to snuff...... :smile:

Seriously, this is pretty simple...if the buyer wants to send the cue back for a refund for whatever reason, seller should honor it, sharpie work or not, unless it was sold as-is, all sales final, or some type of review timeframe stipulation. Evan Clarke's got nothing to do in the equation. And like Doug says, this cue is an R2. Some were obviously made with panto'ed points instead of true spliced (v-groove).
 
poolpro said:
I do not know either of you. I would like to offer my opinion for what it is worth ( prob not much).

I have seen the original thread with the pics and info that you posted.

Your pics clearly show a cue with SHARP points. You also refer to it by model and give a page number in the blue book. Your responses mention the ringwork as proving it is an R2, but you left out the part where it clearly states " The following cues are from Schons fist cataloue, circa 1982. THEY HAD FULL SPLICED POINTS, and are shown with the maple dashed joint rings....... " By all the info that YOU provided it is a schon R2. The book YOU reference also states that it is a full splice cue.

I also find it interesting that the topic of round versus spliced spoints WERE adressed in the same thread regarding this cue.

My opinion is that you did misrepresent this cue. Even if you did so in error, it would be YOUR error, not the buyers. I am NOT suggesting that you INTENTIONALLY did this, but intention does not matter. The facts are that the cue IS NOT what it what was stated.

R2's have spliced points. If this cue is somehow different than what is generally considered an R2, then you should state that.

There is NO WAY that a buyer could have been aware that that cue did not have spliced points by the info you provided. In fact everything (pics, stated model, and blue book reference) claim otherwise. This is the exact definition of misrepresentation.

I would be extremely dissatisfied if I purchased this cue from the information you have given. I would rather have rounded points than sharpeed points. Might as well have a sticker on it.

I would think you chalk this one up to experience, and take the lesson as learned. Inspect/research the item more caefully in the future.

Also, I would think that a refinish is worth mentioning.


I am not trying to stir it up. I am asking you to take a step back, and try to see it as a customer would. I am not accusing you of anything more than not paying proper attention to details. Take it for what it's worth.

Respectfully,
JW
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Once again the cue I sold is an Schon R2 with sharpe points and dashed ringwork . It is exactly as discribed but i have said this over and over again . I am truly amazed at how many peeps think they know more about Schon cues than Evan Clarke ! Again and again I say CALL HIM YOUR SELF !!!!
 
cueaddicts said:
What's the problem? It's not uncommon for a cuemaker to paint or fill in the end of his sharp points to get them up to snuff...... :smile:

Seriously, this is pretty simple...if the buyer wants to send the cue back for a refund for whatever reason, seller should honor it, sharpie work or not, unless it was sold as-is, all sales final, or some type of review timeframe stipulation. Evan Clarke's got nothing to do in the equation. And like Doug says, this cue is an R2. Some were obviously made with panto'ed points instead of true spliced (v-groove).
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Thank you . Evan says there were all ways sharpe points on this cue not rounded points made to look sharpe .
 
iowa_player said:
Once again the cue I sold is an Schon R2 with sharpe points and dashed ringwork . It is exactly as discribed but i have said this over and over again . I am truly amazed at how many peeps think they know more about Schon cues than Evan Clarke ! Again and again I say CALL HIM YOUR SELF !!!!
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I think by now anyone considering buying from you just took several steps back. Good luck with your applied logic in future sales.
 
hangemhigh said:
I think by now anyone considering buying from you just took several steps back. Good luck with your applied logic in future sales.
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Thats just fine with me . If they feel that way then they are not the kind of folks I want to deal with anyway . You can save your pressure tactics they wont work . You will not push me into doing anything more than I feel is fair .
 
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