That's actually an excellent idea.
Can you truly call the APA a success?
- Thread starter TimKrazyMon
- Start date
That's actually an excellent idea.
I am pretty new to Pool only picked up a cue in February this year, after I moved here from England where I used to play snooker but hadn't picked up a cue in 15-20 years. Of course I am hooked again now and play at Marietta Billiards Club in GA.
What I don't understand is where all this hostility towards the APA comes from, not sure I care to know either, but surely purely as a business it's a resounding success. I don't play in it simply because the first people I talked to at MBC were playing TAP and thats where I play now. Surely every league has their perceived faults with handicapping issues etc and the bigger you are the more of these you will have. However I am happy in TAP, yes I have heard gripes about handicapping but most of them have really been in a joking manner. I have been fortunate in this, my first experience with Pool, here at MBC, because Terry (who runs the league) is the nicest guy anyone could wish to meet. So are all the other people who play in the league, I haven't yet met a single person I wouldn't want to sit down and have a beer with and thats pretty remarkable! We also have Johnny and Melanie Archer who are simply awesome people.
I can tell you all that whatever your league situation it's run better here than most other cue sports in places around the world that I have been.
As for the Pros it's a shame that someone cannot get this sorted out and get the various bodies together or eliminate some entirely. If only I were a few years younger I could have been tempted to take something like that on perhaps. They deserve better than what they have now both Men and Women. I know it's tough out there, but sports sponsorship has always proved to be valuable to companys in getting their products out to the masses. Maybe one of the associations out there can get their act together and make this a success. Whoever takes this on would need to be aggressive and go to the Pool Suppliers, League Associations, Pool Room Operators, general businesses people, TV companys, even those who sponsor other sports and say this is our vision, this is where we are going, get in on the ground floor and help us, our success will be your success. Maybe that is the newly formed ABP, lets hope so, but everyone needs to get behind them, whoever they turn out to be.
Am I being naieve, probably but it does seem such a wasted oppurtunity!
OK sorry about that I am going to lie down now
What I don't understand is where all this hostility towards the APA comes from, not sure I care to know either, but surely purely as a business it's a resounding success. I don't play in it simply because the first people I talked to at MBC were playing TAP and thats where I play now. Surely every league has their perceived faults with handicapping issues etc and the bigger you are the more of these you will have. However I am happy in TAP, yes I have heard gripes about handicapping but most of them have really been in a joking manner. I have been fortunate in this, my first experience with Pool, here at MBC, because Terry (who runs the league) is the nicest guy anyone could wish to meet. So are all the other people who play in the league, I haven't yet met a single person I wouldn't want to sit down and have a beer with and thats pretty remarkable! We also have Johnny and Melanie Archer who are simply awesome people.
I can tell you all that whatever your league situation it's run better here than most other cue sports in places around the world that I have been.
As for the Pros it's a shame that someone cannot get this sorted out and get the various bodies together or eliminate some entirely. If only I were a few years younger I could have been tempted to take something like that on perhaps. They deserve better than what they have now both Men and Women. I know it's tough out there, but sports sponsorship has always proved to be valuable to companys in getting their products out to the masses. Maybe one of the associations out there can get their act together and make this a success. Whoever takes this on would need to be aggressive and go to the Pool Suppliers, League Associations, Pool Room Operators, general businesses people, TV companys, even those who sponsor other sports and say this is our vision, this is where we are going, get in on the ground floor and help us, our success will be your success. Maybe that is the newly formed ABP, lets hope so, but everyone needs to get behind them, whoever they turn out to be.
Am I being naieve, probably but it does seem such a wasted oppurtunity!
OK sorry about that I am going to lie down now
how many feathers can I ruffle?
I realy want to let my opinion and the facts I have collected be known. I'm sure some of this has already been posted.
The APA as a buisness model has done extremly well. To call it a success may be an understatment. To say that the system, as a league player, is a success is a horribal long shot in the dark. The APA makes rediculous amounts of money and gives to much control to division reps. Look at the situation in Florida. One family has monopolized a large area. Leaving them in control. They decide how much to give back and how much to keep. They have such a push that they have the power to tell the bar owners what they can and cant do in there own bars.
You may say that as a private buisness owner the bar doesnt have to do anything and that may be true. However if anyone here is a buisness owner and I know many of you are, then you understand that when something that can create income comes along you as the small fish must tbend to get the assistance that such a large company can provide.
The APA tells bar owners and cue repairman what they can do or the APA will leave there bar.
Now look at Texas. Just at my little pool hall they make $600 a night. Then theres all the other 7 or so locations. Then they only send one team from the city? Its a joke. In colorado they have told cue repairman that were 6 pocket affiliates that they cant work there events anymore.
Then there is the ranking (sand bagging) system.That is a total joke. then there's the scoring. Who ever came up with the 9 ball and 8 ball scoring should be shot. The APA obviusly as a buisness model works. The APA as a succefull league well ill take my BCA any day.
Dont get me wrong I know many players that play APA that couldnt win a game if they had to play even up. For these fun trophy players the system is perfect. They are the majority of pool players and they dont know or care about the true game of pool. They just want to beat that 7 who has to make three houndred points to there five.
Bye bye APA.
I realy want to let my opinion and the facts I have collected be known. I'm sure some of this has already been posted.
The APA as a buisness model has done extremly well. To call it a success may be an understatment. To say that the system, as a league player, is a success is a horribal long shot in the dark. The APA makes rediculous amounts of money and gives to much control to division reps. Look at the situation in Florida. One family has monopolized a large area. Leaving them in control. They decide how much to give back and how much to keep. They have such a push that they have the power to tell the bar owners what they can and cant do in there own bars.
You may say that as a private buisness owner the bar doesnt have to do anything and that may be true. However if anyone here is a buisness owner and I know many of you are, then you understand that when something that can create income comes along you as the small fish must tbend to get the assistance that such a large company can provide.
The APA tells bar owners and cue repairman what they can do or the APA will leave there bar.
Now look at Texas. Just at my little pool hall they make $600 a night. Then theres all the other 7 or so locations. Then they only send one team from the city? Its a joke. In colorado they have told cue repairman that were 6 pocket affiliates that they cant work there events anymore.
Then there is the ranking (sand bagging) system.That is a total joke. then there's the scoring. Who ever came up with the 9 ball and 8 ball scoring should be shot. The APA obviusly as a buisness model works. The APA as a succefull league well ill take my BCA any day.
Dont get me wrong I know many players that play APA that couldnt win a game if they had to play even up. For these fun trophy players the system is perfect. They are the majority of pool players and they dont know or care about the true game of pool. They just want to beat that 7 who has to make three houndred points to there five.
Bye bye APA.
Just to point out - you obviously asked the wrong question, or you asked
it in the wrong way.
It is increasingly apparent that you want people to say the APA failed in
what you perceive to be an important goal - promoting pro pool,
MENS pro pool.
If that is what you need so much to hear, your question should have
been something like - "Has the APA been successful at accomplishing
one of its original goals, promoting mens pro pool?".
Dale
I believe the question I asked was fair. I don't think Terry & Larry had any idea that they would be so successful to the point they almost print money. Their goals seemed to be tied to the idea of using amateur pool to build a fanbase for the pro game, injecting new life into the Tour, and heaven forbid, make a little scratch for themselves. I just refuse to fathom that if you told those two back in '79 where the APA & pro pool in general stood today that they would consider it a total success.
What should they do to "promote men's pro pool"? Think about it for a minute. There is no real "men's pro pool" in existance in this country. Sure, there are a few big independent events each year where the best players usually gather to compete, but there is no pro tour to speak of, and there are very few true professional players. Most of the top players have other businesses used to support them and their families. There are very few who make their living playing pool.
Maybe the reason the APA doesn't support men's pro pool is because it really doesn't exist.
Steve
Maybe the reason the APA doesn't support men's pro pool is because it really doesn't exist.
Steve
I played in an APA league twice in two different Cities
Both were pleasant experiences. Oh, there were exceptions, but the 80-20 rule applied. 80% of the time it was good, 20% of the time it wasn't.
Some sessions were better than others. Overall I had a good time and from what I saw from other players, they had a good time also.
I just didn't perfer to play with drunks and loud music all the time. Some of the bars were just filthy. Some of the teams won by any means necessary.
Most of the players enjoyed what they did. Trips to Vegas were only a goal for some teams and most of the times, the weekly matches were just another reason to get out of the house and drink. Nobel goals for a lot of the working stiffs we all are.
I finally found much better playing conditions and much better competition in pool halls and tournaments.
As far as the APA being sucessful.. its always been about the money.. and they are still getting those players to pay each week.. a lot of money..
I wish I was so successful at getting people to buy my product.
Both were pleasant experiences. Oh, there were exceptions, but the 80-20 rule applied. 80% of the time it was good, 20% of the time it wasn't.
Some sessions were better than others. Overall I had a good time and from what I saw from other players, they had a good time also.
I just didn't perfer to play with drunks and loud music all the time. Some of the bars were just filthy. Some of the teams won by any means necessary.
Most of the players enjoyed what they did. Trips to Vegas were only a goal for some teams and most of the times, the weekly matches were just another reason to get out of the house and drink. Nobel goals for a lot of the working stiffs we all are.
I finally found much better playing conditions and much better competition in pool halls and tournaments.
As far as the APA being sucessful.. its always been about the money.. and they are still getting those players to pay each week.. a lot of money..
I wish I was so successful at getting people to buy my product.
I'm not saying it's the APA's job to advertise other leagues. What I said is, how are the other leagues supposed to advertise to APA players when the only thing said players know about, or pay attention to, in pool is the APA? What, is the BCAPL supposed to go start advertising in grocery stores and movie theatres? Hardly effective. I said the APA has the market cornered, and is very close to having a monopoly over casual pool players. If you can not agree with this, you're kidding yourself.
Well, you got the refuse part right.
Did anyone mention anything whatsoever about fair?
Or unfair?
Based on how much trouble you are having understanding the
simplest and most straightforward of statments, I think it's time
to see a copy the original article.
Dale
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Based on that comment, the same could be argued for you.
Really - what exactly did I misunderstand?
Looks like you are just too unhappy that I saw thru your transparent
troll post.
Dale<accomplished at the reading part>
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A. I think the APA is a HUGE success I play in it and I will continue to play in it. My Wife and my Daugter are on my team and they play good, I have met A lot of cool people from the APA and I think its great
B. I dislike the APA because: ^*(^)*^ Ok nevermind
B. I dislike the APA because: ^*(^)*^ Ok nevermind
You misunderstood that I wasn't looking for a "correct" answer. I simply wanted to see if people thought that the APA was a complete success despite failing at one of its fundamental goals. Based on the responses, I'd say that answer is a resounding yes.
Tim(accomplished at the comprehension part)
I don't think so. If they want success they have to develope a product. Handouts only go so far. Once a handout is acceptable, it won't ever be enough and they will want it to be more and mandatory.
Enlighten us all on what the "true game of pool" is? I guess if you aren't making money at it you aren't truely playing pool?
So when do you hit the pro circuit? Do I have to donate a dollar?
The APA publishes a quarterly magazine for it's members. The magazine covers what is happening in the WPBA. You can read about Ga Young Kim Janette Lee, Vivian Villerael (I know I butcheered the spelling) and the pro events they and the others played in. They sponsor the WPBA and promote it. What more are they supposed to do?
The APA publishes a quarterly magazine for it's members. The magazine covers what is happening in the WPBA. You can read about Ga Young Kim Janette Lee, Vivian Villerael (I know I butcheered the spelling) and the pro events they and the others played in. They sponsor the WPBA and promote it. What more are they supposed to do?
Sponsoring a WPBA Tour event at APA Nationals would be a start.
I thought I would throw my 2 cents in.
Whether or not you call the APA a success is based on what, in your opinion, you think success means to you.
As an ecoonomic entity and business, the APA provides 275 + jobs. 250 of those are L.O. and I would guess about 25-30 office staff jobs. It has over 250,000 members and therfore I would think from an outsider looking in it is definitely a success.
My L.O. told me that the APA goal was to get to 1 million members in the next 15 years. Based on the fact that they seem to be well short, thus if you ask the higherups at the APA, they may think that they are not as successful as they should be.
If you talk to a League operator with 200 + teams, I am guessing that they would consider the APA a success, if you talk to a L.O. with 20 teams, they may not.
If you are an outsider who has no vested interest in the APA other than to fill a pol room or sell cues, then I am sure that they would deem it to be a success and good for their business.
If you talk to the person who got kicked out of the APA for sandbagging, I am sure he would say it is not a success simply based on his opinion of what success is (cheating and getting away with it)
If you ask the owner of a competeing pool league, they would say the APA is not a success simply because the selling feature of their league is to say that 23 is too low or BCA plays by the "right" rules. Therefore in their opinion the APA is "ruining pool" and to them it is not a success.
If you talk to the player who is all about the money, then they will say it is not a success becuase in their opinion it doensn't pay back eneough.
However if you talk to the 250,000 people who play in the league, I would bet that 90% or more would consider it a success simply becuase it gives them a night out with their friends to play a game they enjoy playing.
In my opinion as a player, it is the best league going and from everything I have seen about it, it is extremely succesful.
Leagueguy
Exactly. From what I've seen from the answers to my question, making money alone is enough to call it a success. I have always viewed success as accomplishing all of your goals, which is why I don't call the APA a success.
Here in the Valley of the Sun the local APA Operator keep the APA's Name in front of the players monthly with Color 1/2 Page ads in the two pool rags. APA Leagues pays out 40-44% of what the APA Franchise Operator takes in.
I ask one of the BCAPL League Owner how the APA Franchisee is able to do such a large amount of advertising. It's the CASH FLOW.
I ask one of the BCAPL League Owner how the APA Franchisee is able to do such a large amount of advertising. It's the CASH FLOW.