Canela

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pretty much the expected consensus and I can't say I have any substantial disagreement so likes for all. And more questions.

Back to Canela, bbb said elsewhere, Vernon Elliot said Canela - and I know nothing about Canela other than his name popped up here last week - was the best 9 ball player he ever played. Back in the 70s, I got wind of "the Mexican Champion" who could spot anybody and maybe they were referring to him IDK. So a more directed question, What did Canela have that couldn't be beat?
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pretty much the expected consensus and I can't say I have any substantial disagreement so likes for all. And more questions.

Back to Canela, bbb said elsewhere, Vernon Elliot said Canela - and I know nothing about Canela other than his name popped up here last week - was the best 9 ball player he ever played. Back in the 70s, I got wind of "the Mexican Champion" who could spot anybody and maybe they were referring to him IDK. So a more directed question, What did Canela have that couldn't be beat?
How many times are you going to ask the same thing? You writing a book? As said before you are NOT going to get an answer to this. Too many factors in play.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pretty much the expected consensus and I can't say I have any substantial disagreement so likes for all. And more questions.

Back to Canela, bbb said elsewhere, Vernon Elliot said Canela - and I know nothing about Canela other than his name popped up here last week - was the best 9 ball player he ever played. Back in the 70s, I got wind of "the Mexican Champion" who could spot anybody and maybe they were referring to him IDK. So a more directed question, What did Canela have that couldn't be beat?

While riding in my Cadillac
What to my surprise
A little Nash Rambler was following me
About one third my size
The guy must've wanted to pass me up
As he kept on tooting his horn
I'll show him that a Cadillac is not a car to scorn
Beep, beep, beep, beep
His horn went beep, beep, beep
I pushed my foot down to the floor
To give the guy the shake
But the little Nash Rambler stayed right behind
He still had on his brake
He must have thought his car had more guts
As he kept on tooting his horn
I'll show him that a Cadillac is not a car to scorn
Beep, beep, beep, beep!
His horn went beep, beep, beep
My car went into passing gear
And we took off with gust
Soon we were doing 90
Must've left him in the dust
When I peeked in the mirror of my car
I couldn't believe my eyes
The little Nash Rambler was right behind
I think that guy could fly
Beep, beep, beep, beep
His horn went beep, beep, beep
Now, we're doing a hundred and ten
This certainly was a race
For a Rambler to pass, a Caddy
Would be a big disgrace
The guy must've wanted to pass me up
As he kept on tooting his horn
I'll show him that a Cadillac is not a car to scorn
Beep, beep, beep, beep
His horn went beep, beep, beep
Now, we're doing a hundred and twenty
As fast as I could go
The Rambler pulled alongside of me
As if we were going slow
The fellow rolled down his window
And yelled for me to hear
"Hey, Buddy, how can I get this car
Out of second gear!"
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How many times are you going to ask the same thing? You writing a book? As said before you are NOT going to get an answer to this. Too many factors in play.
Granted economic concerns come to mind. Killing your action proving just how well you play doesn't make any sense but I'd still like to know, was he trickier? A machine? What?

Oh and "the Mexican Champion" mighta been Cesar Morales too lol...
 

fjk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
eye hand coordination and hours of playing to get great. simple as that.
golfers, tennis, etc. its all the same.
Agreed. I've know more than a few people that were really good in one hand-eye coordination sport and they easily / quickly got really good in other hand-eye coordination sports. Some people just just blessed with exceptional hand-eye coordination. No matter how many lessons you take, books you read, desire, passion, and knowledge you may have, you'll be limited by your hand-eye coordination. Take Earl, for example, I don't think anyone is going to mistake Earl for a genius, but his natural ability pocketing balls was rivaled by very few. Early also happens to be a really good golfer (scratch) and tennis player.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Agreed. I've know more than a few people that were really good in one hand-eye coordination sport and they easily / quickly got really good in other hand-eye coordination sports. Some people just just blessed with exceptional hand-eye coordination. No matter how many lessons you take, books you read, desire, passion, and knowledge you may have, you'll be limited by your hand-eye coordination. Take Earl, for example, I don't think anyone is going to mistake Earl for a genius, but his natural ability pocketing balls was rivaled by very few. Early also happens to be a really good golfer (scratch) and tennis player.
most of the tennis pros i have taken lessons with play a very low handicap golf game
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
So you're saying it's the individual's limits and that's it? Destiny? The thing I find disturbing about this is no matter the gains in skill and smarts one is able to eke out, surpassing the standards is not possible? Is the fix in on the pecking order?
The simple answer is yes, it more or less is as simple as that if/when everybody has the same drive and is putting the same efforts into their game.

But not everybody has the same drive and is putting the same efforts into their game in the real world, which sometimes (but not always) allows those with less talent, but who want it more and work harder, to surpass those with more talent but who don't put as much effort into their game.

Those that have the most natural ability/talent will always have a higher cap to the potential level they can reach with enough work, and will always be able to progress the fastest with equal efforts.
 
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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just to throw another log on the fire: I think it helps if early on you are around great players.

When you see their technique and patterns that’s what you’re going to emulate right off the bat. It’s like having a road map instead of wandering around lost in the dark.

Lou Figueroa
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just to throw another log on the fire: I think it helps if early on you are around great players.

When you see their technique and patterns that’s what you’re going to emulate right off the bat. It’s like having a road map instead of wandering around lost in the dark.

Lou Figueroa
Quit making sense already! :D I stumbled on pool as a nobody adult in SoCal and all of a sudden there were really F Good players everywhere. I passed on all the rock concerts and Sunset Bl. I took every opportunity to tag along to the "hot pool player" spectacle. Helped form my character and sense of discipline.

i met the guy in his prime. he didn't do speed like a lot of them back then. smoked a lil weed but that was about it. drugs won't make anyone a champion. short term blast is about all they're worth.
So how did he stack up?
 

boyraks

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just to throw another log on the fire: I think it helps if early on you are around great players.

When you see their technique and patterns that’s what you’re going to emulate right off the bat. It’s like having a road map instead of wandering around lost in the dark.

Lou Figueroa
That figures out why regional players have their own innate stroke idiosynchrasies.
Filipinos stroke different not by environment (humidity) but by watching how their idols perform.
Europeans have this snooker stance.
The Chinese have their own style.
So are the Japanese.
 

Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ya'll are going to hate to hear this.....but I knew MANY GREAT players who never practiced...might take off months and come back playing A level. There is one in St Louis I can think of right off hand. I can think of at least 4 or 5 in my 30+ years of playing (and I've lived all over the country and been a "regular" at many pool rooms for extended periods of time). I knew one guy who was a tragic drug addict. Always desperate for money. Always looked a little emaciated. A guy you kind of didn't trust because it was clear the drugs came first. He couldn't hardly get a game because he was so good. One day we were talking about straight pool and out of the blue he said, I wonder what I can run opposite handed. (Wow, that is random thing to say, I've never even seen him play straight pool with his normal game - I thought). He sets up a break shot and runs 60+ balls left handed on a 9ft gold crown. I AM left handed. I've played a ton of straight pool in my life. I've never run 60 balls. I'm not jealous...I just accepted a long time ago that there are levels to this. And some people, like Motzart with music, can JUST PLAY.

Edited to add (and I just don't want to use names) another guy who is one of the best one pocket players I've ever seen. Total natural. Never practiced. Always borrowed cues. He might use a high deflection cue one day, or borrow my predator the next...and he's giving huge spots to SOLID B+ players...and robbing them, running 10 and outs, etc. Or, they'd call him up to back him in some $2000 a game one pocket action. He didn't practice, or discuss cues and shafts (LMAO) or deflection...or squirt, LOL. If you had asked him at the bar about that he would have looked at you like you were a nerd (I am a nerd, so I'm used to it). He probably didn't understand why everyone couldn't play like him. He probably didn't understand how HE played so good. He just could. He was also a champion golfer that never practiced. We went to the range one day, and he hadn't played in however long, and he's hitting the golf ball a mile.
 
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bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ya'll are going to hate to hear this.....but I knew MANY GREAT players who never practiced...might take off months and come back playing A level. There is one in St Louis I can think of right off hand. I can think of at least 4 or 5 in my 30+ years of playing (and I've lived all over the country and been a "regular" at many pool rooms for extended periods of time). I knew one guy who was a tragic drug addict. Always desperate for money. Always looked a little emaciated. A guy you kind of didn't trust because it was clear the drugs came first. He couldn't hardly get a game because he was so good. One day we were talking about straight pool and out of the blue he said, I wonder what I can run opposite handed. (Wow, that is random thing to say, I've never even seen him play straight pool with his normal game - I thought). He sets up a break shot and runs 60+ balls left handed on a 9ft gold crown. I AM left handed. I've played a ton of straight pool in my life. I've never run 60 balls. I'm not jealous...I just accepted a long time ago that there are levels to this. And some people, like Motzart with music, can JUST PLAY.

Edited to add (and I just don't want to use names) another guy who is one of the best one pocket players I've ever seen. Total natural. Never practiced. Always borrowed cues. He might use a high deflection cue one day, or borrow my predator the next...and he's giving huge spots to SOLID B+ players...and robbing them, running 10 and outs, etc. Or, they'd call him up to back him in some $2000 a game one pocket action. He didn't practice, or discuss cues and shafts (LMAO) or deflection...or squirt, LOL. If you had asked him at the bar about that he would have looked at you like you were a nerd (I am a nerd, so I'm used to it). He probably didn't understand why everyone couldn't play like him. He probably didn't understand how HE played so good. He just could. He was also a champion golfer that never practiced. We went to the range one day, and he hadn't played in however long, and he's hitting the golf ball a mile.
what i think may be true behind the scenes here is
he played a zillion hours as a kid
and like riding a bike you dont forget
here is a true story
i play tennis
ivan lendl was going to play a grudge match against john McEnroe
in madison square garden i would guess this was somewhere around 2010-2015
lendl had hurt his back and wasnt playing tennis for over 10 years.
he needed a lefty to train for the match with and it turned out
a pro at my club had just finished playing college division 1 tennis with good results was a lefty so lendl paid him to be his hitting partner
one day i asked the pro how was it going?
he said
i dont understand it. i am 25 or more years younger than lendl ...faster/ stronger/hit the ball harder
but i cant beat him!!!!
he just doesnt beat himself and always seems to hit the right shot
i said to the pro
you are 25 years old...how many grand slams do you have? he said none
i said lendl probably had 4 or 5 by the time he was 25 !!!!!!!!
when you start at the 100th story of the building and go down 10 flights
you are still above the guy on the 50th floor
just sayin
:D
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Pretty much the expected consensus and I can't say I have any substantial disagreement so likes for all. And more questions.

Back to Canela, bbb said elsewhere, Vernon Elliot said Canela - and I know nothing about Canela other than his name popped up here last week - was the best 9 ball player he ever played. Back in the 70s, I got wind of "the Mexican Champion" who could spot anybody and maybe they were referring to him IDK. So a more directed question, What did Canela have that couldn't be beat?
All the great Mexican champions hung around L.A. off and on back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. There was good action there and it was close to Mexico. Mario, Big Sergio, Little Al, young Ernesto and several other great players. A couple of times when Canela was in the USA and traveling around the Southwest his name would come up. All the Mexican players fell silent. They revered him! He was their idol. I believe I saw him in L.A. (from his photos) but never saw him play. Too bad.

As far as the inredients for greatness, that has been well covered here with maybe one thing left out. When it come sports like golf, tennis and pool, I think that getting an early start is paramount for attaining greatness. Almost all the truly best players at these games got their start as very young children, often as young as 5 or 6. I remember seeing Tiger Woods on the Merv Giffin show at the age of three and he was whacking the ball already!
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All the great Mexican champions hung around L.A. off and on back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. There was good action there and it was close to Mexico. Mario, Big Sergio, Little Al, young Ernesto and several other great players. A couple of times when Canela was in the USA and traveling around the Southwest his name would come up. All the Mexican players fell silent. They revered him! He was their idol. I believe I saw him in L.A. (from his photos) but never saw him play. Too bad.
I remember watching Al Romero play. Perfect outs from small table congestion. Real whiz.

The Canela buzz didn't even have a name in my bunch. Just "The Mexican Champion". lol...
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What distinguished him? What is it these world beaters have that the next tier can't grasp?
Can't grasp.....?

I Think....the distinguishing part is the reason.

It's something within the man/player/character, the ''no quit'' attitude, that keeps em playing, improving and coming back.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can't grasp.....?

I Think....the distinguishing part is the reason.

It's something within the man/player/character, the ''no quit'' attitude, that keeps em playing, improving and coming back.
Yes but aren't these qualities standard in all the best? If he had for instance, mind boggling ball control, that's learnable by any dominator (I just invented this genre) class player. I'm just talking pool - not god class mental attributes or even deadly friends. lol...
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes but aren't these qualities standard in all the best? If he had for instance, mind boggling ball control, that's learnable by any dominator (I just invented this genre) class player. I'm just talking pool - not god class mental attributes or even deadly friends. lol...
We all have different parents and family and experiences during our adolescence.
They create ones character.
 
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