Carbon Fiber Shafts should be Banned

[Minnesota Phat]

It is a matter of adjustment. anyone who has transitioned from a regular maple shaft to a low deflection shaft will tell you that it takes time to adjust Some will say that low deflection isn't worth the adjustment phase.

CF and a good tip really show you when you are imparting any side spin that you didn't intend. I had to bring my English in by a full tip, sometimes more and hitting a shot intended to be center ball had better be center ball or you will throw the OB.

Not better, different and requiring adjustment and concentration.

I tend to agree with you for the most part, but I went with a low-deflection shaft because I think that it ultimately does make the game easier, even though I dislike all the new-fangled technology. This is a major reason that I wish that LD-shafts didn't exist - I feel like I'm basically forced into using an LD shaft, if I want to be the best I can be at the game under the current rules.

I think the pro players who transitioned to LD or carbon fiber shafts did so in order to gain an advantage, and that's why they deal with the adjustment phase. My LD shaft definitely squirts MUCH less than a solid maple shaft, and I think that provides a huge advantage over solid maple shafts.

 

[Black-Balled]

Its because the marketing around pool keeps me ignorant.

Self education in pool, what does that mean to you?

Yes, blame external sources.

Marketing failed you, schools failed coo-coo-caw-boy.

The two of you are fine bedfellows... beyond entertaining.

 

[Jaden]

Mask mandates, vax mandates, and farting in elevators.

This is one of the most ironical statements I've seen in a while... I think everyone should do what I want, well except wearing masks and taing vaccinations....lol

Jaden

 

[Minnesota Phat]

This is one of the most ironical statements I've seen in a while... I think everyone should do what I want, well except wearing masks and taing vaccinations....lol

Jaden

I'm an enigma wrapped in a paradox smothered with secret cosmic sauce.

Yeah I guess I'm being a little too aggressive by saying that CF should be banned. A better approach would probably be to say that I would like to see some old-school tournaments where only real wood cues are allowed. Maybe it could be called "The Traditional Circuit," and the only way to break an old record would be to do it with the same equipment that the players of yesteryear had available to them.

My thought was really just to push back against what I see as a profit-driven obsession with new technology in pool. I think it's worth thinking about whether these changes have improved or harmed the aesthetics of the game, especially considering how popular it is to play, and how unpopular it is as a spectator sport. My thoughts are too detailed to fit into a digestible comment, but for instance one frustration I have is that I have to start my conversations with newer players who may want to get serious about the game with a discussion about a bunch of pool cue technology that a high school student probably can't afford in the first place.

I'm not being quite as self-contradictory as it may first appear - one of my concerns is that all of this new pool cue technology makes the game inaccessible to players who can't afford all of the fancy equipment it takes to play on a level playing field with those who can afford it. Sure, the kids can play at a disadvantage, but that's not as fun as playing on a level playing field. My collection of fancy pool cues gives me a clear and obvious advantage against someone playing with a house cue, or with a reasonably-priced maple cue, but that doesn't feel right to me.

 

[mr5994]

I'm an enigma wrapped in a paradox smothered with secret cosmic sauce.

Yeah I guess I'm being a little too aggressive by saying that CF should be banned. A better approach would probably be to say that I would like to see some old-school tournaments where only real wood cues are allowed. Maybe it could be called "The Traditional Circuit," and the only way to break an old record would be to do it with the same equipment that the players of yesteryear had available to them.

My thought was really just to push back against what I see as a profit-driven obsession with new technology in pool. I think it's worth thinking about whether these changes have improved or harmed the aesthetics of the game, especially considering how popular it is to play, and how unpopular it is as a spectator sport. My thoughts are too detailed to fit into a digestible comment, but for instance one frustration I have is that I have to start my conversations with newer players who may want to get serious about the game with a discussion about a bunch of pool cue technology that a high school student probably can't afford in the first place.

I'm not being quite as self-contradictory as it may first appear - one of my concerns is that all of this new pool cue technology makes the game inaccessible to players who can't afford all of the fancy equipment it takes to play on a level playing field with those who can afford it. Sure, the kids can play at a disadvantage, but that's not as fun as playing on a level playing field. My collection of fancy pool cues gives me a clear and obvious advantage against someone playing with a house cue, or with a reasonably-priced maple cue, but that doesn't feel right to me.

For a player new to the game, a maple shaft is just fine. As they advance.....if still financially constrained, they can pick up a used laminated wood shaft for a good price that will give them most of the benefits of a CF shaft.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

For a player new to the game, a maple shaft is just fine. As they advance.....if still financially constrained, they can pick up a used laminated wood shaft for a good price that will give them most of the benefits of a CF shaft.

I've heard different theories about that, but I would personally find it discouraging to have to re-learn deflection after putting in hundreds or thousands of hours learning how to compensate for deflection.

I've heard that most really good players take a year or two to adjust from solid to LD/CF shafts, if they can even succeed at making the adjustment at all.

Maybe there is some advantage to learning both that I'm not seeing - pool can be a mysterious game - but I bought an LD shaft because I didn't want to have to re-adjust my aim whenever I use english. To me, there is a night-and-day difference between my LD shaft and my regular maple shaft, and in a game that requires near-perfect consistency in order to achieve excellence, that seems really important.

 

[mr5994]

I've heard different theories about that, but I would personally find it discouraging to have to re-learn deflection after putting in hundreds or thousands of hours learning how to compensate for deflection.

I've heard that most really good players take a year or two to adjust from solid to LD/CF shafts, if they can even succeed at making the adjustment at all.

Maybe there is some advantage to learning both that I'm not seeing - pool can be a mysterious game - but I bought an LD shaft because I didn't want to have to re-adjust my aim whenever I use english. To me, there is a night-and-day difference between my LD shaft and my regular maple shaft, and in a game that requires near-perfect consistency in order to achieve excellence, that seems really important.

My comment was more around the kid still learning how to hold his cue.....whether he is using a maple shaft or CF is not really going to matter at that point.

But yes, if getting serious enough about the game that you are investing hundreds or thousands of hours into practice.....an LD shaft makes sense. As stated......if a CF shaft is not in the budget......a used predator or OB laminated shaft can be had for around $100 (with everyone switching over to CF). I believe Dr Dave demonstrated that deflection was only marginally better for a CF shaft when compared to a good LD laminated shaft.

 

[briankenobi]

You’re actually the one struggling, bub. I have said it’s all about tip material, not equipment. I will spell it out in crayon for you, so you can understand. I can take your $1000 carbon fibre, specially designed “jump cue”, put a soft leather tip on it, and it will jump like a turd. I can then cut a house cue down to 40 from the tip, install a phenolic tip, and it will outjump the special technologically advanced cue. So, I’ll make this crystal clear so you can understand. This is akin to a pitcher being able to put on a throwing glove that allows him to throw a ball 20mph faster with the same effort as throwing slower. But if he takes the glove off, his pitching speed drops back to normal. Tell me, does he have skill, or does he have an aid?

You still haven't understood the point so it makes no sense for me to use logic and common sense with you anymore.

 

[JazzyJeff87]

You can get decent LD shafts for cheap. My first cue was a Viking something or other for like $140 with an LD shaft. Not to mention the used market.

But I don’t see a huge difference when going to a house cue from one of my own LD. Maybe because I learned first with LD stuff I don’t know. After a couple shots your brain makes the adjustments.

I don’t see it as being a super important factor really. Find a cue with a good tip and practice with intent.

 

[cueman]

The other day I got a chance to shoot with one of these pieces of crap, and all I can say is: UGLY.

I always knew that they looked ugly, but they also sound truly awful. My pool-loving soul recoiled at the very first impact of the cue against the cue ball, and that horrendous hollow "plink" sound.

Carbon fiber shafts and phenolic break tips are the aluminum baseball bats of pool - sure, they perform well, but they look like crap, they sound like crap, and they are a sign of everything wrong with billiards in America.

In England they have respect for tradition, and great snooker players make a lot of $$$ using snooker cues made out of real wood - no gimmicks, no B.S., no eyesores, and no plinking pieces of carbon fiber garbage.

I'd rather shoot with a broomstick than with a carbon fiber shaft.

Carbon fiber shafts should be banned from every money game - agree or disagree?

I am a bigger fan of of tight grain maple over carbon fiber myself and yet I sell carbon fiber blanks to many cuemakers and also build a few cues with them. But as for the plink hollow sound. That is easily taken care of by what you fill the inside with. I won't go into details on a non cuemakers forum, but plenty of cuemakers have figured out how to make carbon fiber not have a plink hollow sound or feel. One day I might figure out how to make them play as good or better than maple, but so far I am not quite there yet. But some people feel they already play better than maple.

 

[garczar]

I am a bigger fan of of tight grain maple over carbon fiber myself and yet I sell carbon fiber blanks to many cuemakers and also build a few cues with them. But as for the plink hollow sound. That is easily taken care of by what you fill the inside with. I won't go into details on a non cuemakers forum, but plenty of cuemakers have figured out how to make carbon fiber not have a plink hollow sound or feel. One day I might figure out how to make them play as good or better than maple, but so far I am not quite there yet. But some people feel they already play better than maple.

The cuetec doesn't sound funky and plays as good as any wood shaft i've ever hit. I'm still using a Mezz HybridPro wood but the Cuetec is what i'd buy if i went to the 'dark side'.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

Just curious what shaft did you play with?

Good question, but I don't remember what he said it was. He claimed the cue was worth over $1,000, and said that he worked in a cue repair shop - the butt was definitely a Predator, but the shaft might not have been.

He was quite friendly, but man did he stumble into the wrong potential customer for that cue - I would never buy a Made in China cue, or a carbon fiber shaft, much less pay over a grand for them.

 

[cueman]

The cuetec doesn't sound funky and plays as good as any wood shaft i've ever hit. I'm still using a Mezz HybridPro wood but the Cuetec is what i'd buy if i went to the 'dark side'.

I put a tip on a customer's Cuetec carbon fiber shaft and he let me hit some balls with it and it played pretty good and sounded pretty good. It allowed me to adjust pretty quick to pocketing balls, but the feel for the draw shot was still not as good as a wood shaft. Other than that it hit great.

 

[Tooler]

I am a bigger fan of of tight grain maple over carbon fiber myself and yet I sell carbon fiber blanks to many cuemakers and also build a few cues with them. But as for the plink hollow sound. That is easily taken care of by what you fill the inside with. I won't go into details on a non cuemakers forum, but plenty of cuemakers have figured out how to make carbon fiber not have a plink hollow sound or feel. One day I might figure out how to make them play as good or better than maple, but so far I am not quite there yet. But some people feel they already play better than maple.

I put a tip on a customer's Cuetec carbon fiber shaft and he let me hit some balls with it and it played pretty good and sounded pretty good. It allowed me to adjust pretty quick to pocketing balls, but the feel for the draw shot was still not as good as a wood shaft. Other than that it hit great.

I'd like to see what a little more end mass would do. Maybe a brass tip pad, or something a little heavier than fiber....

 

[garczar]

I'd like to see what a little more end mass would do. Maybe a brass tip pad, or something a little heavier than fiber....

You want more squirt? because that's what would happen.

 

[Tooler]

You want more squirt? because that's what would happen.

Yes, not a lot more, but just a little more.

 

[Buzzard]

So do you think MLB should start using aluminum baseball bats? They look like crap and sound like crap, but hey, they last forever, and they make it easier to hit a baseball, right?

At the pro level an aluminum bat could get someone killed The ball comes off the bat much, much, faster than with a wooden bat. I agree that the carbon fiber shaft is ugly but everybody is looking for a way to play better. Tips progressed in pool I am sure from the early days. You wouldn't say that they should be banned???

 

[Chili Palmer]

There must be some incredible players here, if y'all think that jump shots are easy.

I think I've maybe seen someone pocket a legal jump shot against me in a game once in my life. I've made a few successful jump shots in games, but not many, and I usually end up with bad shape when I make them. On Monday I did make one beautiful jump shot all cramped up in the corner of the table... and I managed to get both the object ball and the cue ball to go in the same pocket. :/

When I practice jump shots, even more experienced players have asked me how I do it. I'm not great at pool, but I sometimes watch people who are very good at it, and a successful jump shot is a rare thing to see.

I'd pay good money to watch the debaters here attempt jump shots in games that have a little money riding on them.

I wonder what the success rate is on jump shots for professional players...

I agree. I bet very few people on this site can properly execute a jump with any consistency. I rarely don't get over the ball but 9 times out of 10 I would've been better off kicking.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Yes, blame external sources.

Marketing failed you, schools failed coo-coo-caw-boy.

The two of you are fine bedfellows... beyond entertaining.

Talking smack again

 

[SomeDeadGuy]

If this guy played golf he'd be using a feather ball hitting it with a spoon, niblick, and mashie using willow shafts thinking he's really cool.