Cardone got jerked around

[JoeyA]

The Walking Stick

QUOTE=BVal]Good catch - there is a huge difference. In either instance it isn't true. Just someone running their mouth.

BVal[/QUOTE]

I think Jay Helfert has spoken up for Billy and that's good enough for me. Jay isn't one to bite his tongue, even when it is about people who are his friends.

The other part of the equation that I didn't mention is about pool players when they lose a nice chunk of change even if it is the stake horse's money: The Filipinos winning side almost always give 10% of the wager to the loser. It really is a good policy in my opinion. (It probably cuts down on the dumping to boot). I have not always seen 10% as the number and have always heard it referred to as a "walking stick". There are multiple reasons behind providing a "walking stick". One of the reasons is it is simply a good business tactic. People like to gamble with people who understand what it is like to lose a big dollar match. A helping hand is always appreciated and a small token of your appreciation for a good competitive game means you will be considered for action in the future. That 10% or whatever the number is can sometimes mean the difference between sleeping in the car or sleeping at the Not So Pleasant Dream Inn. And even if the loser of the match has money to spare, he can always use a little extra.

I can not count the number of times that I have personally witnessed pool players coming up to the winner after the big money match and asking for a walking stick. It is a very common occurence if you have been around pool players for very long. If the losing player is not offered the walking stick he will slyly ease up to the winner on the side, trying not to embarass himself or the winner and ask for his walking stick out right. It is sometimes given and other times the loser is simply told to hit the road and there are valid reasons for saying no just as there are valid reasons for saying yes to a "walking stick".

So if you see the loser of a pool match getting some cash from the winner of the pool match, don't jump to conclusions.

If you hear from someone else that they witnessed a payoff between the two competing players, just nod your head and give them a knowing wink. They won't know what you know but the nod and wink will make them as happy as a pig eating slop.

I think the Filipinos have it right. 10% goes to the loser of the big money match. Maybe we can hear from some of our brothers across the big water who practice this. How much is the big money match and does it only apply to big money matches? I will ask my local Pinoy friends to hear what they have to say.

JoeyA

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

Posted by Freddy The Beard:
Cardone got jerked around.


You just can't let people jerk you around in a poolroom...... imo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKaFoM3UF0I
Doug

 

[jay helfert]

I had the pleasure of spending part of the last month with Billy Incardone. We have been friends for some time but not to the extent that we don't gamble with each other.

Why would he come up and ask me if I wanted a 1/3 of his bet if he knew there was business going on. All you smarts just answer that question!

He's smart and we are friends but we aren't that close and he would never be that dumb!!!!!!!!!!!

Meanwhile, back to the topic at hand. Ricky Byrd, when would you like for Billy and I to come back down there and finish the bet at 11-7. We need to move on and get this out of the way. Billy did his part and played the tough game first. Now it's your turn to "do the right thing".

Hey Bill,

Didn't we play in the One Pocket at Derby City this year. That was you wasn't it?

 

[vagabond]

Vagabond, I personally don't think either Tony.Ronnie,or Ricky are sleezes, but I question their honor as a gambler. Especially Ricky Byrd. He invited me to come to his tournament under the pretense that he would guarantee me action with several players,( which he didn't produce )then he matched a package game with me playing him 11/7 one pocket, if I played Joiner 11/7. He obviously thought that Joiner had tons the best of his game, so he would free roll with me on our game. Oops I just happened to beat Joiner, and Byrd had excuses why he couldn't play our game. I waited 2 days to play our game and then left.Now to me that's not a misunderstanding,is it?

hi wincardona,
I was trying to diffuse the situation rather add fuel to the fire.

 

[vagabond]

That also doesn't sound like a misunderstanding. Respectfully,aint no saint Bill Incardona

May I propose to replace `Pittsberg flash` with `Aint no saint Bill Incardona`

 

[Craig]

Gambling= Is all about making the money, how many times have you been in a pool room and saw two guys post the money with one player holding a gun to the other players head... ( NONE ).... so if you make a bad game and lose, doesnt mean the other player is a LockSmith at game making. Sounds to me he knows the other players speed and if your dumb enough to give up bad games your fault, sooner or later you will get smarter at making better games or you go broke. its your choice nobody is holding a gun to your head making you get up and play. so dont player hate, hate the guy in the mirror he made the bad game.

 

[John Barton]

There is no diffusion needed. People talk about how they want to see the "action" side of the game promoted and how pool players are gunslingers and so on and if that's so then the NITS need to be OUT of the game.

The truth is that MOST players and stakehorses want to STEAL - they don't want to gamble. A FAIR game is like the PLAGUE - to be avoided at all costs.

Here is what I hate - I can't stand the fact that players are treated like so much meat to be "put" in the box at will by backers who just want to have a vicarious thrill. I was barking at a guy at DCC and he turns around to a couch full of players and points to one of them and literally orders him to play. It made me sick the way these guys were hanging around pimps and drug dealers waiting for the breadcrumbs.

I played small action at DCC that week but everytime I was in action it was 100% my money on the line and I didn't have to answer to ANYONE or BEG anyone. In the last set I played that week I was $100 short to post and I borrowed it with no hassle. Then the NITS I was playing wanted to LOWER the bet before we teed up. For $700 THEY - a consortium of three players, wanted to lower the bet to five hundred. I said that they better go out and turn some more tricks cuz I wasn't lowering the bet.

I very rarely back people, and very rarely ask people to back me. It's because I don't want the hassle or the pressure. Nor do I want the player to be thinking about me.

Now I realize that the upper echelon players would rather let someone else take the risk and I get that. But it's just ludicrous that there has to be days and weeks of negotiations before someone plays and when they finally DO get to the table somebody wants to change the game.

I would LOVE to see some big ass money PUBLIC challenge matches like in the early 1900's. When Willie Hoppe went to France and challenged Viganeaux (I think) the whole country was betting against Willie. Each day's action was front page news on two continents.

Why don't we have some boxing matches? All you backers love to talk about how you have more money than God and you will bet wheelbarrels and haybales of cash - so how about putting some of that money where your mouths are and getting up some public matches - complete with bleachers and everythign? Charge admission, make it an all around, call it a world championship, complete with a belt and all.

I got $29.95 for the Pay Per View.

And that's my perspective. Ricky, quit nitting around and go play Billy. Billy can Ricky get the game if Cliff is allowed to coach him on every third shot?

 

[corvette1340]

QUOTE=BVal]Good catch - there is a huge difference. In either instance it isn't true. Just someone running their mouth.

BVal

I think Jay Helfert has spoken up for Billy and that's good enough for me. Jay isn't one to bite his tongue, even when it is about people who are his friends.

The other part of the equation that I didn't mention is about pool players when they lose a nice chunk of change even if it is the stake horse's money: The Filipinos winning side almost always give 10% of the wager to the loser. It really is a good policy in my opinion. (It probably cuts down on the dumping to boot). I have not always seen 10% as the number and have always heard it referred to as a "walking stick". There are multiple reasons behind providing a "walking stick". One of the reasons is it is simply a good business tactic. People like to gamble with people who understand what it is like to lose a big dollar match. A helping hand is always appreciated and a small token of your appreciation for a good competitive game means you will be considered for action in the future. That 10% or whatever the number is can sometimes mean the difference between sleeping in the car or sleeping at the Not So Pleasant Dream Inn. And even if the loser of the match has money to spare, he can always use a little extra.

I can not count the number of times that I have personally witnessed pool players coming up to the winner after the big money match and asking for a walking stick. It is a very common occurence if you have been around pool players for very long. If the losing player is not offered the walking stick he will slyly ease up to the winner on the side, trying not to embarass himself or the winner and ask for his walking stick out right. It is sometimes given and other times the loser is simply told to hit the road and there are valid reasons for saying no just as there are valid reasons for saying yes to a "walking stick".

So if you see the loser of a pool match getting some cash from the winner of the pool match, don't jump to conclusions.

If you hear from someone else that they witnessed a payoff between the two competing players, just nod your head and give them a knowing wink. They won't know what you know but the nod and wink will make them as happy as a pig eating slop.

I think the Filipinos have it right. 10% goes to the loser of the big money match. Maybe we can hear from some of our brothers across the big water who practice this. How much is the big money match and does it only apply to big money matches? I will ask my local Pinoy friends to hear what they have to say.

JoeyA[/QUOTE]


The idea of a "walking stick" has always bothered me. Why in the world would I give money that I just made back to the person I won it off of? Now sometimes I have reduced the amount of the debt in order to get paid by someone I won money off of but that is a little different. I have a novel idea for all the so called big money gamblers who seem to always be broke and need a walking stick: don't gamble what you can't afford to lose. Why in the world would anyone gamble with their case money? This is why most pool players stay bust.

 

[JoeyA]

I think Jay Helfert has spoken up for Billy and that's good enough for me. Jay isn't one to bite his tongue, even when it is about people who are his friends.

The other part of the equation that I didn't mention is about pool players when they lose a nice chunk of change even if it is the stake horse's money: The Filipinos winning side almost always give 10% of the wager to the loser. It really is a good policy in my opinion. (It probably cuts down on the dumping to boot). I have not always seen 10% as the number and have always heard it referred to as a "walking stick". There are multiple reasons behind providing a "walking stick". One of the reasons is it is simply a good business tactic. People like to gamble with people who understand what it is like to lose a big dollar match. A helping hand is always appreciated and a small token of your appreciation for a good competitive game means you will be considered for action in the future. That 10% or whatever the number is can sometimes mean the difference between sleeping in the car or sleeping at the Not So Pleasant Dream Inn. And even if the loser of the match has money to spare, he can always use a little extra.

I can not count the number of times that I have personally witnessed pool players coming up to the winner after the big money match and asking for a walking stick. It is a very common occurence if you have been around pool players for very long. If the losing player is not offered the walking stick he will slyly ease up to the winner on the side, trying not to embarass himself or the winner and ask for his walking stick out right. It is sometimes given and other times the loser is simply told to hit the road and there are valid reasons for saying no just as there are valid reasons for saying yes to a "walking stick".

So if you see the loser of a pool match getting some cash from the winner of the pool match, don't jump to conclusions.

If you hear from someone else that they witnessed a payoff between the two competing players, just nod your head and give them a knowing wink. They won't know what you know but the nod and wink will make them as happy as a pig eating slop.

I think the Filipinos have it right. 10% goes to the loser of the big money match. Maybe we can hear from some of our brothers across the big water who practice this. How much is the big money match and does it only apply to big money matches? I will ask my local Pinoy friends to hear what they have to say.

JoeyA

The idea of a "walking stick" has always bothered me. Why in the world would I give money that I just made back to the person I won it off of? Now sometimes I have reduced the amount of the debt in order to get paid by someone I won money off of but that is a little different. I have a novel idea for all the so called big money gamblers who seem to always be broke and need a walking stick: don't gamble what you can't afford to lose. Why in the world would anyone gamble with their case money? This is why most pool players stay bust.[/QUOTE]

One of my Pinoy friendssaid the 10% is not always offered or asked for. It is not a standard that is always followed. I guess it is just like the "walking stick".

Like I mentioned before, I think it makes good business sense. In other matches of skill (not pool) the loser is still paid a stipend. I don't see why it should be any different.

If the loser is not dead broke when the match is over, he has a better chance to pump up and get back in action.

I'm not saying I would do it for just anyone but if discussed before hand I would strongly consider it, whether I was one of the players or the stakehorse (*which isn't likely unless the player's nickname is "Saint XXXX" or JoeyA.)

JoeyA

 

[wincardona]

I think Jay Helfert has spoken up for Billy and that's good enough for me. Jay isn't one to bite his tongue, even when it is about people who are his friends.

The other part of the equation that I didn't mention is about pool players when they lose a nice chunk of change even if it is the stake horse's money: The Filipinos winning side almost always give 10% of the wager to the loser. It really is a good policy in my opinion. (It probably cuts down on the dumping to boot). I have not always seen 10% as the number and have always heard it referred to as a "walking stick". There are multiple reasons behind providing a "walking stick". One of the reasons is it is simply a good business tactic. People like to gamble with people who understand what it is like to lose a big dollar match. A helping hand is always appreciated and a small token of your appreciation for a good competitive game means you will be considered for action in the future. That 10% or whatever the number is can sometimes mean the difference between sleeping in the car or sleeping at the Not So Pleasant Dream Inn. And even if the loser of the match has money to spare, he can always use a little extra.

I can not count the number of times that I have personally witnessed pool players coming up to the winner after the big money match and asking for a walking stick. It is a very common occurence if you have been around pool players for very long. If the losing player is not offered the walking stick he will slyly ease up to the winner on the side, trying not to embarass himself or the winner and ask for his walking stick out right. It is sometimes given and other times the loser is simply told to hit the road and there are valid reasons for saying no just as there are valid reasons for saying yes to a "walking stick".

So if you see the loser of a pool match getting some cash from the winner of the pool match, don't jump to conclusions.

If you hear from someone else that they witnessed a payoff between the two competing players, just nod your head and give them a knowing wink. They won't know what you know but the nod and wink will make them as happy as a pig eating slop.

I think the Filipinos have it right. 10% goes to the loser of the big money match. Maybe we can hear from some of our brothers across the big water who practice this. How much is the big money match and does it only apply to big money matches? I will ask my local Pinoy friends to hear what they have to say.

JoeyA

The idea of a "walking stick" has always bothered me. Why in the world would I give money that I just made back to the person I won it off of? Now sometimes I have reduced the amount of the debt in order to get paid by someone I won money off of but that is a little different. I have a novel idea for all the so called big money gamblers who seem to always be broke and need a walking stick: don't gamble what you can't afford to lose. Why in the world would anyone gamble with their case money? This is why most pool players stay bust.[/QUOTE]

There are many legitimate reasons why treating skilled players to a walking stick is clearly the right thing to do. Analogy, most airlines offer frequent flyer miles to their customers so they will fly with them,enough of an inducement to choose one airlines opposed to the others.I look at walking sticks as American Airlines looks at frequent flyer milesYou could say it's part of marketing what ever your trying to market. Secondly, if a player has developed the talkig,and playing skills to get staked I certainly want that player to fly with me.There are quite a few players that will match up with me because they know that i'll help them with some form of appreciation. Thirdly,maybe that walking stick will enable that player to build a bank roll and try me again. That has happened many times.And finally,I happen to like pool players and understand the road they travel is a very rocky one, good luck,really on the square.I hope I cleared up the reasons for giving up walking sticks. Have a nice day.

 

[corvette1340]

The idea of a "walking stick" has always bothered me. Why in the world would I give money that I just made back to the person I won it off of? Now sometimes I have reduced the amount of the debt in order to get paid by someone I won money off of but that is a little different. I have a novel idea for all the so called big money gamblers who seem to always be broke and need a walking stick: don't gamble what you can't afford to lose. Why in the world would anyone gamble with their case money? This is why most pool players stay bust.

There are many legitimate reasons why treating skilled players to a walking stick is clearly the right thing to do. Analogy, most airlines offer frequent flyer miles to their customers so they will fly with them,enough of an inducement to choose one airlines opposed to the others.I look at walking sticks as American Airlines looks at frequent flyer milesYou could say it's part of marketing what ever your trying to market. Secondly, if a player has developed the talkig,and playing skills to get staked I certainly want that player to fly with me.There are quite a few players that will match up with me because they know that i'll help them with some form of appreciation. Thirdly,maybe that walking stick will enable that player to build a bank roll and try me again. That has happened many times.And finally,I happen to like pool players and understand the road they travel is a very rocky one, good luck,really on the square.I hope I cleared up the reasons for giving up walking sticks. Have a nice day.[/QUOTE]


Why not just play for less if you are the other person? OH, because its usually not the players' money thats being bet to begin with so the more bet the better. I wonder if a stakehorse has ever been given a walking stick? Again, I understand its a form of charity. I give thousands of dollars a year to the United Way and The American Cancer Society. But I don't give change to bums on the sidewalk that can help themselves.

 

[jay helfert]

The idea of a "walking stick" has always bothered me. Why in the world would I give money that I just made back to the person I won it off of? Now sometimes I have reduced the amount of the debt in order to get paid by someone I won money off of but that is a little different. I have a novel idea for all the so called big money gamblers who seem to always be broke and need a walking stick: don't gamble what you can't afford to lose. Why in the world would anyone gamble with their case money? This is why most pool players stay bust.

There are many legitimate reasons why treating skilled players to a walking stick is clearly the right thing to do. Analogy, most airlines offer frequent flyer miles to their customers so they will fly with them,enough of an inducement to choose one airlines opposed to the others.I look at walking sticks as American Airlines looks at frequent flyer milesYou could say it's part of marketing what ever your trying to market. Secondly, if a player has developed the talkig,and playing skills to get staked I certainly want that player to fly with me.There are quite a few players that will match up with me because they know that i'll help them with some form of appreciation. Thirdly,maybe that walking stick will enable that player to build a bank roll and try me again. That has happened many times.And finally,I happen to like pool players and understand the road they travel is a very rocky one, good luck,really on the square.I hope I cleared up the reasons for giving up walking sticks. Have a nice day.[/QUOTE]

I can see it now.

Cardone's FREQUENT PLAYER DISCOUNTS!

Over six plays in one calendar year - Receive 15% Rebate on all losses.
Three to five plays in one year - Receive a 10% Rebate on all losses.
One or two plays a year - Receive a 5% Rebate on all losses.

ALL GAMES MUST ORIGINATE OUT OF DALLAS for an extra 2% Bonus!

 

[vagabond]

That is funny.

 

[wincardona]

There are many legitimate reasons why treating skilled players to a walking stick is clearly the right thing to do. Analogy, most airlines offer frequent flyer miles to their customers so they will fly with them,enough of an inducement to choose one airlines opposed to the others.I look at walking sticks as American Airlines looks at frequent flyer milesYou could say it's part of marketing what ever your trying to market. Secondly, if a player has developed the talkig,and playing skills to get staked I certainly want that player to fly with me.There are quite a few players that will match up with me because they know that i'll help them with some form of appreciation. Thirdly,maybe that walking stick will enable that player to build a bank roll and try me again. That has happened many times.And finally,I happen to like pool players and understand the road they travel is a very rocky one, good luck,really on the square.I hope I cleared up the reasons for giving up walking sticks. Have a nice day.

I can see it now.

Cardone's FREQUENT PLAYER DISCOUNTS!

Over six plays in one calendar year - Receive 15% Rebate on all losses.
Three to five plays in one year - Receive a 10% Rebate on all losses.
One or two plays a year - Receive a 5% Rebate on all losses.

ALL GAMES MUST ORIGINATE OUT OF DALLAS for an extra 2% Bonus![/QUOTE]

Thanks Jay I think you may be on to something.I'll use that the next time I match up.

 

[stevelomako]

Hey Billy,

It's fun being on the road again isn't it? LOL

So did Ricky Byrd try to charge you for time after all that?

 

[JoeyA]

Jay, your post #72 insinuates that wincardona made the post about the objecting of the walking stick HOWEVER IT was corvette1340 that made that post. I don't know how the posts get referenced to the wrong person but it happens.
JoeyA

 

[wincardona]

Jay, your post #72 insinuates that wincardona made the post about the objecting of the walking stick HOWEVER IT was corvette1340 that made that post. I don't know how the posts get referenced to the wrong person but it happens.
JoeyA

Once again your perception of things are right on as usual. POSTER RATING AAA NO OFFENSE JAY YOUR STILL WORLD CLASS.

 

[wincardona]

There are many legitimate reasons why treating skilled players to a walking stick is clearly the right thing to do. Analogy, most airlines offer frequent flyer miles to their customers so they will fly with them,enough of an inducement to choose one airlines opposed to the others.I look at walking sticks as American Airlines looks at frequent flyer milesYou could say it's part of marketing what ever your trying to market. Secondly, if a player has developed the talkig,and playing skills to get staked I certainly want that player to fly with me.There are quite a few players that will match up with me because they know that i'll help them with some form of appreciation. Thirdly,maybe that walking stick will enable that player to build a bank roll and try me again. That has happened many times.And finally,I happen to like pool players and understand the road they travel is a very rocky one, good luck,really on the square.I hope I cleared up the reasons for giving up walking sticks. Have a nice day.

Why not just play for less if you are the other person? OH, because its usually not the players' money thats being bet to begin with so the more bet the better. I wonder if a stakehorse has ever been given a walking stick? Again, I understand its a form of charity. I give thousands of dollars a year to the United Way and The American Cancer Society. But I don't give change to bums on the sidewalk that can help themselves.[/QUOTE]

Corvette,your missing with ball in hand. Walking sticks are an investment that are beneficial to both the recepient,and the donor. It's part of doing business.

 

[Bishop]

I love to gamble but damn you guys take the fun and passion out of the game with all the huffing and BS that goes on and on before the actual match up themselves.

 

[ShootingArts]

FInally, short and sweet!

Corvette,your missing with ball in hand. Walking sticks are an investment that are beneficial to both the recepient,and the donor. It's part of doing business.

Bill,

Finally a short sweet answer that everyone should understand!

Hu