Casinoes and pool - One way to advance our sport.

mnorwood

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
Has anyone ever thought about approaching casinos about having a pool action room. It would be a good way to give pool some exposure and legitimizing gambling in the sport. It would ensure that wagers are honored and the bullsh@# factor would be more effectively managed. I think it would be a win-win situation as long as the house sufficiently benefited from the enterprise. I for one would gamble regularly on pool if it was controled by a casino. Hell I would have enough comps to have a free hotel room.
 
this story might be wrong, so i'm sure someone will correct me....

wasn't there a tournament held in reno years and years ago, where the casino(or maybe promoter) asked the players about giving odds,, and the players said mike lebron was the biggest longshot, and then they proceded to lay down and let him win?
 
Somehow I don't see INCREASING gambling on pool as "advancing" it as a sport in ANY sense of the word.

Ask Pete Rose if he thought gambling advanced baseball. :P
 
The only problem is that it kind of takes away from the fun family-social activity that most organizations want to put forth.
People for years have thought about pool as a sleazy, back alley kind of thing. And throwing the gambling thing full force into peoples faces wouldnt help change that.
I gamble at pool, and love to do so. But I do think the way to go is the brightly lit family atmosphere pool halls. There just needs to be more of them, and more emphasis put on the social/recreational aspect of the game. Ive always thought having pool halls in shopping malls and bowling alleys was a good idea, you just have to be careful about what kind of people hang out/loiter there. When I was at the Cue Club in Vegas, I was suprised by a sign as soon as you walk in the door that stated...." no gang dress, logos, colors etc" I had never seen such a thing, but its good thinking. There used to be a pool hall in Anchorage, it was open 24 hours had been open for over 20 years etc. They never, in all that time, had to call the cops. And this was THE action room back in the 80s when the fisherman and the north slope workers were laying down cash like it was too hot to be in their hand. If you make it known that "bad elements" wont be tolerated, then thats half the battle.
But back to the casino thing....... if you go the legalized gambling aspect you will sour alot of peoples opinions whose children may want to try their skill on the green cloth.
The mis-spent youth thing may be a truth to the games history..... but it doesnt help the public image.
Chuck
 
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This would be the first Challenge of Champions. Lebron's odds were 20-1, and one by one his opponents threw matches in his favor. Davenport makes the most glaring errors in my opinion, but Buddy Hall's inability to get out at hill-hill in the finals is atrocious.

I have the DVD and it's embarrasing.


bruin70 said:
this story might be wrong, so i'm sure someone will correct me....

wasn't there a tournament held in reno years and years ago, where the casino(or maybe promoter) asked the players about giving odds,, and the players said mike lebron was the biggest longshot, and then they proceded to lay down and let him win?
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I don't know if it would be worth it for casinos.

In the same space that a Gold Crown takes up, you can put a blackjack (or any card game) table and sit 8 people down to be playing $5-$5000 a hand. Or you can have a dozen slot machines raking in the money every second.

It's an interesting proposition for sure, but I think casinos wouldn't see any profit in it.

The only casino I can think of that does anything pool-related is Mohegan Sun. Maybe someone should talk to them about expanding their pool involvement?

mnorwood said:
Has anyone ever thought about approaching casinos about having a pool action room. It would be a good way to give pool some exposure and legitimizing gambling in the sport. It would ensure that wagers are honored and the bullsh@# factor would be more effectively managed. I think it would be a win-win situation as long as the house sufficiently benefited from the enterprise. I for one would gamble regularly on pool if it was controled by a casino. Hell I would have enough comps to have a free hotel room.
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mnorwood said:
Has anyone ever thought about approaching casinos about having a pool action room....
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I seem to remember some stories on the West Coast about Tony Annigoni trying something like this several years ago. And it failed because, as somebody already said here, casino and other big money types aren't comfortable with how easy, and common, it is for pool players to lay down. Worse than boxing, and possibly as bad as jai alai. And that ignores the revenue-per-square-foot problem, which is significant.

-- jwp
 
The only way I see it happening is with the casinos carrying the odds on pool matches....some states gaming laws might be prohibitive....

When I lived in Vegas I worked as a slot machine install tech and there are certain things you can and can't bet on....like sportsbooks...*sigh* I wish Vegas wasn't the only place where they're legal...
________
 
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Real casinos are geographically limited and hence not well suited as backers of high exposure pool events.

Online gambling is much better suited and has become the driving force behind Matchroom events, World Snooker and the Eurotour more recently.

I think the synergy is likely to develop further in coming years, and that should be a great thing for pool fans and players. It is a powerful driving force behind most popular sports.
 
PoolSleuth said:
I believe the Indian Casinos in New Mexico, and Arizona already hold Pool Events/ Tournments
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I think the point is being missed. He is not talking about pool tournaments as so many have posted. He's talking about a room, like a poker room, where people could match up and gamble for money and the house would get a rake. That way the casinos would have an incentive to market pool and go out of their way to attract pool players. One of the reasons people I know who play cards in casinos do it, is because the casinos treat them like kings.

Imagine if you wanted to play someone for 100/game of 1-pocket. You matched up, Somebody neutral racked the balls, a well-trained server came around and brought you free drinks, only at the appropriate times. The table time was free and the house took a rake of $5/game (5%) from the winner. You could earn comp points etc...just like you can playing blackjack. The rooms would have minimum bets and it would be a constant action-pit environment.

Seems like the rake would have to be pretty high %-wise to make it worthwhile to the casino. Side bets might or might not work for the reasons stated above.

The casinos might also introduce new fast money games like some form of 3-ball where there are big pots that pay frequently.

I think that is what mnorwood is talking about.
Cheers,
RC
 
sixpack said:
I think the point is being missed. He is not talking about pool tournaments as so many have posted. He's talking about a room, like a poker room, where people could match up and gamble for money and the house would get a rake. That way the casinos would have an incentive to market pool and go out of their way to attract pool players. One of the reasons people I know who play cards in casinos do it, is because the casinos treat them like kings.

RC
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I understand the point, and made the point the Casino's already are doing Pool Tournaments.

Could the above idea work? Maybe? But the Space a Pool Table take, could have how many Slot, or blackjack Tables.

Think you would need to show the Casinos a projected P & L Statement, and also an idea as to how to get Gamblers on Pool, and Player interested in Gambling to come to said property to GAME.

The Indians do want to make more money, but have to be sold on new way to do that....
 
PoolSleuth said:
I understand the point, and made the point the Casino's already are doing Pool Tournaments.

Could the above idea work? Maybe? But the Space a Pool Table take, could have how many Slot, or blackjack Tables.

Think you would need to show the Casinos a projected P & L Statement, and also an idea as to how to get Gamblers on Pool, and Player interested in Gambling to come to said property to GAME.

The Indians do want to make more money, but have to be sold on new way to do that....
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Yep, that's why I said the rake might have to be too high. Would you want to do it if you were playing for 10/game and every game you won, the house took 3? I don't think so. But to compete for floor space with BJ and slots, that's probaby the neighborhood you'd need to be in.

I wasn't trying to single you out as not understanding, I just thought the thread had moved away from his original idea. Yours was just the most relevant post to quote. Sorry if I offended.

Cheers,
RC
 
Not too sound negative but it will never happen,poker is a big thing because almost anyone can win even with little skill,its people friendly and anyone can win,as for pool not everyone can run racks or play the game,thats the problem with the game as a sport for the masses unlike poker,some people just dont understand that.I would love to gamble on matches and whatnot like most tournaments have,so if you want to gamble or get a horse go to tournaments or an action room,the casinos wont benefit from it so they wont waste there time for a couple bucks raked from a 100 game of 1 hole that goes from 30min. to an hour.;)
 
I'm actually in discussion with a hotel owner/casino operator who's a close family friend. I suggested that we do this pool event like a horse race where people can bet on win, place, show, top two or three. The way it works is to have each of the 9 players quartered in individual booths that keeps them from seeing their opponent and will just be let out of their booth if its their turn to shoot. All the player will know is the prize money for the standings so that they'll shoot to win. Of course they can bet on themselves. And since we have a huge pool of players in Manila, we can have a few sessions a night witha variety of combinations per session. Let's see them rig that.
 
Pool will be a one on one gambling activity, as said before the ease of folding a game is to easy. You cant have odds on a game where you are not sure that the game will be played like it is supposed to. When two players bet each other the chance of one of them folding the game is slim, since the money is the players own.
 
there is no benefit to have tables in a casino. If local pool rooms barely get by why would a casino bother with pool? There wouldn't be enough high rollers or ton's of action for casinos to make money. Besides, most pool players spend more money on gambling then on pool itself.
 
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I would like to clarify my idea. First I am not suggesting that the house sponsar tournaments. Second I am not suggesting that the house manage side bets on matches. I am suggesting that the house take a cut from any action that happens at tables that they have. The tax per rack would have to be sizable due to the fact that a casino's profitablility is calculated by money made per square foot. However I have seen casinoes with vacant space. Harrah's in New Orleans is a perfect example. It has an entire floor that has never been developed.
 
JustPlay said:
there is no benefit to have tables in a casino. If local pool rooms barely get by why would a casino bother with pool? There wouldn't be enough high rollers or ton's of action for casinos to make money. Besides, most pool players spend more money on gambling then on pool itself.
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Think the above post makes a GREAT POINT...:)
 
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