Centerball...haters gonna hate

[Jaden]

Sure I actually created a thread on it a while back...

I think it is rather obvious that I agree with you. I've 'never' really used BHE with the pivot point of the cue in mind. I am more of a feel based player & less 'mechanical'.

That really does not matter but you brought up a couple of points that interest me.

Not being able to bridge as desired & pivoting at the pivot point of the cue.

I think I understand this, but could you give a brief explanation, if not here possibly through a PM.

Thanks in advance if you're willing.

I'll give a brief description and then try to find and link to the thread I created.

If you KNOW where the pivot point is (i.e. marked it with a sharpie) but you can't bridge at that point because of an obstructing ball or too close to the rail etc., there are a couple of different ways you can still pivot from the PP.

1) You elevate over a ball to temporarily bridge at that point while you pivot for the amount of english that you want and then while keeping the cue on that line, slide your bridge to the place you will have to bridge from.

2) You can focus on keeping the pivot point locked in place (relative to the table) while you pivot from where your bridge is, by sliding your bridge hand as much as is necessary to keep that point ,(easier if it is marked with a sharpie or whatever), in place relative to the table.

Jaden

p.s. Here is the link to the thread, it was geared more towards people using BHE on a ld cue without having to bridge too far back but is applicable in this situation as well...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=362204

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'll give a brief description and then try to find and link to the thread I created.

If you KNOW where the pivot point is (i.e. marked it with a sharpie) but you can't bridge at that point because of an obstructing ball or too close to the rail etc., there are a couple of different ways you can still pivot from the PP.

1) You elevate over a ball to temporarily bridge at that point while you pivot for the amount of english that you want and then while keeping the cue on that line, slide your bridge to the place you will have to bridge from.

2) You can focus on keeping the pivot point locked in place (relative to the table) while you pivot from where your bridge is, by sliding your bridge hand as much as is necessary to keep that point ,(easier if it is marked with a sharpie or whatever), in place relative to the table.

Jaden

Thanks, Jaden.

I had it & I think I like the second method the best.

Thanks again.

PS Your'e doing a Great job in this thread. There are just some hard nuts like certain Pecans that just seem can not be cracked.:wink:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...I'm pretty sure that means use center axis whenever you can...

That's your strawman - what's really being said (over and over) is use center axis whenever it's the best choice.

...there are lots of times you can use center ball that it's better to use side spin.

And vice verse.

pj
chgo

 

[Jaden]

No it's not...

That's your strawman - what's really being said (over and over) is use center axis whenever it's the best choice.


And vice verse.

pj
chgo

You guys must have reading comprehension problems...

because saying "Use side spin when it's the best option" and "use only when you have to" are NOT the same thing.

I'm the one saying that you should use center axis when it's the best option; however, it's rarely the best option when you are confident in using side spin.

Becoming proficient and confident in using side spin CHANGES how often it becomes the best option...

That is not what others are claiming.

Jaden

p.s. the vice versa is only true when you AREN'T as confident and capable of shooting the shot accurately USING side spin.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You guys must have reading comprehension problems...

because saying "Use side spin when it's the best option" and "use only when you have to" are NOT the same thing.

I'm the one saying that you should use center axis when it's the best option; however, it's rarely the best option when you are confident in using side spin.

Becoming proficient and confident in using side spin CHANGES how often it becomes the best option...

That is not what others are claiming.

Jaden

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[BeiberLvr]

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[ENGLISH!]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[Neil]

That makes ZERO sense. The more you stick to the vertical center axis of the ball, the harder you will have to strike the cueball to get it where you want. If you want to argue for center ball you'd have to use this argument in reverse like this "Sticking near the vertical axis, it's you doing all the work, thus you have more control". I don't agree with this, but at least it makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. That is, to those that can control the cb hitting anywhere. Apparently, by your posts, you have too much trouble moving the cb without spinning it around the table. Yet, instead of actually learning to do something, you are real quick to condemn it. And then have the gall to say that we don't know how to move the cb around. I guess it does make zero sense to someone that doesn't have a clue how to do it.

 

[Neil]

Pool is not a game against yourself. You are coming to the table from a random break and from opponent leaves...You don't get to only play from where you leave yourself.

You could have perfect position on every shot you shoot (no one does) and still lose because your opponent left you a shot that you have a better chance getting on the next ball right by using inside follow rather than tangent line stun.

If you use tangent stun, clip another ball and get hooked you're screwed where as if you used inside follow there would be no chance of getting hooked.

Or you're shooting a shot into the side at a slight angle and you can follow off the foot rail on center axis or you can draw with inside to get shape and you hit a ball on the foot rail and stop on the foot rail, where as the inside draw allows you to bring the draw angle inside and get perfect shape without chancing hitting a ball and scratching or stopping against the rail and being screwed.

There are a thousand shots that are makable with center axis that might be better to shoot with a tad bit of inside/outside or extreme outside/inside to give you a better chance of position.

I've already stated that I don't believe in using spin for anything but position, except in rare circumstance where you don't have enough ball showing and need to throw it in, or reverse spin a bank or what have you.

Most people, even some advanced players, have NO idea whatsoever how intricate and involved some of the game is and what you can do...

I can't even count how many times players have said to me "I didn't think that shot was makable". To which I usually reply, "It wasn't, I MADE it makable".

All of those "unmakable" shots are only makable because of side spin, so to hear people advocate avoiding side spin chaps my hide because if someone listens to those suggestions, they WILL be limiting their game.

(Once you to get to the right level) you should be working on being just as comfortable using two and a half tips of inside follow from 6 feet as shooting a two foot stop shot.

Anyone who advocates for anything else, I'll tell them, they don't know enough about the game, I don't care who they are.

Now, are they REALLY going to be just as comfortable? Probably not.

However, with things like BHE and such, it is possible to get REALLY close.

How comfortable they can get depends on them and that is something that they'll need to weigh in their shot selections for themselves.

I just can't stand people carte blanche advocating using center ball whenever possible, and I will scream to the high heavens against it when anyone does.

Jaden

Yep you scream alright. Maybe some day you will learn how to play with center ball and then you won't be screaming so much. Funny how the ones against it are the ones that admit they can't do it. Maybe you all should learn to use the whole cb and not just the edges. But, go ahead with your rants.

Also funny how we advocate using the whole ball, and you say we are limiting ourselves. Also funny how some of you were backing CJ so much just a short while ago, now you are advocating exactly opposite of what he was saying.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...[center axis is] rarely the best option when you are confident in using side spin.

This is where we really disagree. I don't think it's rare at all for a center axis hit to produce shape good enough to make using spin a bad choice.

And maybe that becomes even more true as you get better, not less. I see pros opting for simpler shape more often than lesser players, I assume because they're confident enough of their pocketing skills to make spinning less of a constant necessity.

pj
chgo

 

[Neil]

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

You're pounding your head against a wall. Once some have swallowed the Kool Aide it's rather difficult if not impossible to get them back to seeing reality.

Some maintain an open mind while other's minds gets closed by the Kool Aide.

You Have a Good Day & Stay & Shoot Well.

You are such a hypocrite and crap-stirrer. How many thousands of posts do you have backing CJ on TOI? Which is nothing more than staying near center ball. Yet here you are, mocking it. Just so you can "fit in" with certain people and be against certain others.

 

[Neil]

You guys must have reading comprehension problems...

because saying "Use side spin when it's the best option" and "use only when you have to" are NOT the same thing.

I'm the one saying that you should use center axis when it's the best option; however, it's rarely the best option when you are confident in using side spin.

Becoming proficient and confident in using side spin CHANGES how often it becomes the best option...

That is not what others are claiming.

Jaden

p.s. the vice versa is only true when you AREN'T as confident and capable of shooting the shot accurately USING side spin.

No, Jaden, YOU are the one with the reading comprehension problem. You have had it explained to you a number of times, and like I said previously, you still don't get it, and won't get. You have your mind made up, and that's it for you, period. You can't see logic anymore because of it.

Saying it is rarely the best option just because you know how to spin the ball is absurd at best. The only reason to spin the ball when you don't need to is because you want to. Just because you want to spin it doesn't make it the best choice by a long shot.

And, your and a few others opinion that those that prefer to stay close to center ball can't use english when desired or needed is just ignorant. You guys and gals are just to stubborn to actually have an open mind and learn something. So be it. Have fun with your games.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You are such a hypocrite and crap-stirrer. How many thousands of posts do you have backing CJ on TOI? Which is nothing more than staying near center ball. Yet here you are, mocking it. Just so you can "fit in" with certain people and be against certain others.

No, not at all. I shot with spin on nearly every shot since I was 13 for nearly 45 years & then when CJ introduced TOI here, I experimented with it & found it very useful.

Hitting with TOI is NOTHING like hitting on the center axis.

It seems that you might very well have comprehension issues with the english language. Hitting 'NEAR' center axis is not the same & no where close to the same as hitting 'ON' the vertical axis.

Your accusations are false & the above explanation should make that extremely clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense.

You have a nice evening.:smile:

 

[Neil]

No, not at all. I shot with spin on nearly every shot since I was 13 for nearly 45 years & then when CJ introduced TOI here, I experimented with it & found it very useful.

Hitting with TOI is NOTHING like hitting on the center axis.

It seems that you might very well have comprehension issues with the english language. Hitting 'NEAR' center axis is not the same & no where close to the same as hitting 'ON' the vertical axis.

Your accusations are false & the above explanation should make that extremely clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense.

You have a nice evening.:smile:

Try going back and reading what Pat and I and a few others have been saying, then say we have reading comprehension problems. Go look in a mirror Rick. Staying near the center axis, means just what it says. That fact that you want to twist what has been said is of no consequence to reality. So, before you go off on people, get a friggin clue of what is being talked about. You are so predictable.

 

[ENGLISH!]

No, Jaden, YOU are the one with the reading comprehension problem. You have had it explained to you a number of times, and like I said previously, you still don't get it, and won't get. You have your mind made up, and that's it for you, period. You can't see logic anymore because of it.

Saying it is rarely the best option just because you know how to spin the ball is absurd at best. The only reason to spin the ball when you don't need to is because you want to. Just because you want to spin it doesn't make it the best choice by a long shot.

And, your and a few others opinion that those that prefer to stay close to center ball can't use english when desired or needed is just ignorant. You guys and gals are just to stubborn to actually have an open mind and learn something. So be it. Have fun with your games.

No Neal. I'ts just the opposite. It is YOU that seems to have language comprehension issues or perhaps other issues & it is YOU that has the closed mind & CAN NOT & WILL NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCES or... YOU just have another aganda(s).

You have a good evening.:smile:

 

[duckie]

Seems it is always the same ones that lead a thread to shit......

 

[Straightpool_99]

It makes perfect sense. That is, to those that can control the cb hitting anywhere. Apparently, by your posts, you have too much trouble moving the cb without spinning it around the table. Yet, instead of actually learning to do something, you are real quick to condemn it. And then have the gall to say that we don't know how to move the cb around. I guess it does make zero sense to someone that doesn't have a clue how to do it.

What you are saying is that if I need to go two rails out of the corner for instance, the classic 9 ball shot where you hit a ball with low outside to go 2 rails and through the center of the table, I get more movement out of the ball with just low at the same speed? That's terrific, I'm really learning something here. Likewise I have to hit harder with running english than with just top or bottom? Fantastic. Whatever will you say next?

Most 9 and 10 ball shots will have the cueball hit rails. Notice, I did not say all. Rails slow the ball down. Adding running english gives you more speed out from the rail. More speed equals more movement. So a relaxed shot with top and running english will move further than a shot with the same speed with top, as long as a rail is contacted. With sidespin the spin does the work, and you can shoot softer on many shots. That is my contention. What is yours? Nevermind don't even bother. I think typing out such obvious, common sense is actually damaging to my psyche. Don't make me do it again, please.

Oh, and I could not give a flying f..what you think about my playing ability, just though I'd mention it in case it wasn't clear. I officially give up on this discussion. Have fun.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Try going back and reading what Pat and I and a few others have been saying, then say we have reading comprehension problems. Go look in a mirror Rick. Staying near the center axis, means just what it says. That fact that you want to twist what has been said is of no consequence to reality. So, before you go off on people, get a friggin clue of what is being talked about. You are so predictable.

The subject has never been confined to staying NEAR the center axis. That is hitting with english spin or for the intention of squirt for TOI. It has been between hitting ON the center axis or hitting OFF of the center axis.

You & PJ use the same tactics.

What color is the shy? Blue. No, at night it's black.

Well, not really it is a deep deep midnight blue.

Your shenanigans are not worth anyone's time or effort to try to have ANY genuine discussion with you or the likes of you.

The sad thing is that you do not realize the picture of yourself that you paint to everyone with eyes to see.

You have a good evening.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Seems it is always the same ones that lead a thread to shit......

Don't sit the fence Greg. Be specific & speak your mind.

You did say LEAD though didn't you?

 

[ENGLISH!]

What you are saying is that if I need to go two rails out of the corner for instance, the classic 9 ball shot where you hit a ball with low outside to go 2 rails and through the center of the table, I get more movement out of the ball with just low at the same speed? That's terrific, I'm really learning something here. Likewise I have to hit harder with running english than with just top or bottom? Fantastic. Whatever will you say next?

Most 9 and 10 ball shots will have the cueball hit rails. Notice, I did not say all. Rails slow the ball down. Adding running english gives you more speed out from the rail. More speed equals more movement. So a relaxed shot with top and running english will move further than a shot with the same speed with top, as long as a rail is contacted. With sidespin the spin does the work, and you can shoot softer on many shots. That is my contention. What is yours? Nevermind don't even bother. I think typing out such obvious, common sense is actually damaging to my psyche. Don't make me do it again, please.

Oh, and I could not give a flying f..what you think about my playing ability, just though I'd mention it in case it wasn't clear. I officially give up on this discussion. Have fun.

I'm with you. Their nonsense is ridiculous.