Ceramithane

whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I just finished a cue with yet another water borne urethane finish. I tried it just for the hell of it. Of the 4 I have tried, it is the best I have used so far.

It gives about 5 mils for 2 coats. I put it on with a foam brush while spinning about 120 rpm. After I swirl it on, I go back over it touching the brush's beveled edge to it every 2 inches to remove the rings. I put on 2 coats and let it harden overnight. Sand it and put on 2 more coats. You may not believe it but it looks like you sprayed it and I could polish and buff it with out sanding.... it is that smooth. You can spray it if you like. It can be used as its own sealer but from my experience water borne sealer doesn't penetrate as far or stick as well as others.

You must wait an hour between coats and no more than 2 coats per day. It takes longer than other water borne finishes to dry. Because it dries slowly, you have time to go back over it and play until it is smooth. It sets up in a few minutes but is still sticky 4 hours later. The long dry time is probably why it flows out so flat. Wait for at least a week before sanding and buffing.

It is hard and has uv protection.

Has anyone else tried it?????



Kim
 
whammo57 said:
I just finished a cue with yet another water borne urethane finish. I tried it just for the hell of it. Of the 4 I have tried, it is the best I have used so far.

It gives about 5 mils for 2 coats. I put it on with a foam brush while spinning about 120 rpm. After I swirl it on, I go back over it touching the brush's beveled edge to it every 2 inches to remove the rings. I put on 2 coats and let it harden overnight. Sand it and put on 2 more coats. You may not believe it but it looks like you sprayed it and I could polish and buff it with out sanding.... it is that smooth. You can spray it if you like. It can be used as its own sealer but from my experience water borne sealer doesn't penetrate as far or stick as well as others.

You must wait an hour between coats and no more than 2 coats per day. It takes longer than other water borne finishes to dry. Because it dries slowly, you have time to go back over it and play until it is smooth. It sets up in a few minutes but is still sticky 4 hours later. The long dry time is probably why it flows out so flat. Wait for at least a week before sanding and buffing.

It is hard and has uv protection.

Has anyone else tried it?????



Kim
Click to expand...

This is the exact product you tried?

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ceramithaneglossquart.aspx

You did not add anything for the crosslinking?

Kelly
 
Got pics Kim ?
Sounds way too good to be true .

Can you apply it on some dowel and whack it with another dowel to the side a week later ?
Let's see if it sticks .


Thanks.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Got pics Kim ?
Sounds way too good to be true .

Can you apply it on some dowel and whack it with another dowel to the side a week later ?
Let's see if it sticks .


Thanks.
Click to expand...


I would bet with you on that ..... it would most likely give you that horrible white spot where it lifted...

I failed o mention that I put it over a base coat of epoxy.... The write up on it says it will stick to most any undercoat.

I included a pic of the latest cue I put it on.

This is a cue I just finished for a friend. It is to replace the horrible thing he has been playing with. I made it the same weight and tip size but it is 60 in long.

One piece cocobolo .. one piece, full length maple core, phenolic ends, butt weighs 15.8oz, shaft weighs 4.1oz, balance point 19 inches, 3/8-10.. phenolic insert in shaft, Kamui black soft tip


I love cocobolo.


Kim
CIMG0470.jpg


CIMG0469.jpg
 
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This:

http://www.muralo.com/product_pdfs/Ceramithane%20810%20info%20sheet.pdf

Says the hardness using the Sward test is 44 after 7 days.

For comparison, Enduro Pre-Cat

http://www.generalfinishes.com/sites/default/files/Perform-Data-Enduro-Pre-Cat-Urethane-113009-pdf.pdf

says the hardness using the Konig test is 84.

I read on the internet that the Konig test values are roughly 2.5 times that of the sward values. If that is true, the Sward value for Enduro Pre-Cat is 33.6, which makes what you tried a good bit harder.

A typical lacquer is supposed to be around 20-30 Sward.

This cabinet manufacturer
http://www.kdunphy.com/Clearcoat.html
claims his (I assume the point he is making is it was his) water based poly reaches 63 after 7 days. I think 63 is as hard as any automotive clearcoat.

Is Enduro Pre-Cat one of the other water based finishes you have tired? If so, have you or can test them against each other in some way to determine one seems harder than the other?

Kelly
 
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Kelly_Guy said:
This:

http://www.muralo.com/product_pdfs/Ceramithane%20810%20info%20sheet.pdf

Says the hardness using the Sward test is 44 after 7 days.

For comparison, Enduro Pre-Cat

http://www.generalfinishes.com/sites/default/files/Perform-Data-Enduro-Pre-Cat-Urethane-113009-pdf.pdf

says the hardness using the Konig test is 84.

I read on the internet that the Konig test values are roughly 2.5 times that of the sward values. If that is true, the Sward value for Enduro Pre-Cat is 33.6, which makes what you tried a good bit harder.

A typical lacquer is supposed to be around 20-30 Sward.

This cabinet manufacturer
http://www.kdunphy.com/Clearcoat.html
claims his (I assume the point he is making is it was his) water based poly reaches 63 after 7 days. I think 63 is as hard as any automotive clearcoat.

Is Enduro Pre-Cat one of the other water based finishes you have tired? If so, have you or can test them against each other in some way to determine one seems harder than the other?

Kelly
Click to expand...

I test with the fingernail mark test. not very scientific. I actually think that Ceramithane takes the longest of them all to cure and harden. 1 week is ok but I feel 2 weeks is better. Ceramithane always is dust when sanding while some of the others will roll or pill with sanding.

I have also tried :

General Finishes - clear poly (the pro stuff only available in Gallons) Nice but gives a bluish tint if it's too thick. I does go away after 4-5 weeks.

Target Coatings - 9000 - good stuff but sometimes also bluish tint.

Target Coatings - 9300 - the best from Target and harder than the 9000


just my opinion

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
I test with the fingernail mark test. not very scientific. I actually think that Ceramithane takes the longest of them all to cure and harden. 1 week is ok but I feel 2 weeks is better. Ceramithane always is dust when sanding while some of the others will roll or pill with sanding.

I have also tried :

General Finishes - clear poly (the pro stuff only available in Gallons) Nice but gives a bluish tint if it's too thick. I does go away after 4-5 weeks.

Target Coatings - 9000 - good stuff but sometimes also bluish tint.

Target Coatings - 9300 - the best from Target and harder than the 9000


just my opinion

Kim
Click to expand...

I understand on using the fingernail test. I personally would not be bothered with 2 weeks for it to cure. My question is, once cured, do you really feel it is significantly harder based on your tests than the General Finishes?

Thanks.

Kelly
 
Kelly_Guy said:
I understand on using the fingernail test. I personally would not be bothered with 2 weeks for it to cure. My question is, once cured, do you really feel it is significantly harder based on your tests than the General Finishes?

Thanks.

Kelly
Click to expand...

Just my personal opinion but I think the Ceramithane is harder than the General finishes clear poly and the Target 9000 but probably not as hard as the Target 9300.

again... the fingernail test is not very scientific. I also go by how it sands and buffs. I think the ceramithane needs less sanding because it flows out very flat and buffs the easiest and shines the best of all.

KIM

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
Just my personal opinion but I think the Ceramithane is harder than the General finishes clear poly and the Target 9000 but probably not as hard as the Target 9300.

again... the fingernail test is not very scientific. I also go by how it sands and buffs. I think the ceramithane needs less sanding because it flows out very flat and buffs the easiest and shines the best of all.

KIM

Kim
Click to expand...

Thanks for your posts sharing your experiences.

Kelly
 
I have not really looked into water based finishes because the auto clear I use is quit a bit clearer and polishes out better than the limited experience I have with water based stuff.....but this looks pretty good.....real good in fact......I'll have to look into it as far as price aplication and health concerns.....thanks for the post
 
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ComptonCustomCues said:
I have not really looked into water based finishes because the auto clear I use is quit a bit clearer and polishes out better than the limited experience I have with water based stuff.....but this looks pretty good.....real good in fact......I'll have to look into it as far as price aplication and health concerns.....thanks for the post
Click to expand...

I can't comment on the auto clear as I have never used it. I know that it must be good stuff or it wouldn't stick to a car and polish out so brilliantly.

The water based clear is crystal clear if it is not too thick and none of it will turn yellow. (as far as I know)

The benefit I find is that there is really no health issue. (wear a respirator when sanding) and there is really no monetary outlay for equipment. All you really need is a spinner and a foam brush.

For $20 you can get a quart and try it.

Kim
 
Great read.....How thick is the finish after you sand and buff. What is the recomended temperature for application.
 
The finish on the cue you posted looks good. How long does it have to spin before you can hang it up to dry?
 
Thats a great looking cue Kim. I'd be most happy if I could make a finish like that.
I thinks some of dat is coming up north pretty quick.
 
josie said:
The finish on the cue you posted looks good. How long does it have to spin before you can hang it up to dry?
Click to expand...

I let is spin for about an hour. It does still feels tacky for 4 - 6 hours. The next morning it is hard enough to sand. My temperature is mid 70's and humidity is 40-50%.

Kim
 
DD Custom Cues said:
Great read.....How thick is the finish after you sand and buff. What is the recomended temperature for application.
Click to expand...

From my measurements, it is about 5 mil when finished. The application instructions say you can use it down to 55 deg. I bet it will take a long time to cure at that temp. This winter I might need to make a heated curing box. My work area is not heated.

Kim
 
I'll epoxy coat a maple dowel and send them to you for comparison Kim.

If it's harder than my epoxy coat, I'll give Ceramithane a try.
Oddly enough, the best car finish there is ( supposedly ) is Ceramiclear .
I'm not touching car finish though.
 
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