I agree with this completely.
Challenge of Champions dump
- Thread starter hang-the-9
- Start date
I agree with this completely.
Old Nine Baller
Banned
John,
This is the 2nd most hilarious post in this entire thread, thanks for the laugh.
ONB
Old Nine Baller
Banned
Oh no you didn't just throw Ronnie Allen under the bus. Do you have any real evidence that Ronnie Allen dumped?
For anyone who doesn't want to take the time to watch RA admit to it, he did admit to it. He dumped Platis and he says he did. I didn't watch this video but there is a 7 part interview with RA where he admits dumping Platis as a means of revenge for something or another.
ONB
Old Nine Baller
Banned
You are very perceptive
. If the "fluffers" would quit denying it happened then everyone would forget about it. They are 50% of this thread.I think it would be interesting to look at this from another view. Let's say the dump did not happen, how many things would be contrary (evidence-wise) to that assumption?
ONB
Old Nine Baller
Banned
Hopkins was not being conspired against by the other 7 players. All he had to do was win his matches and he gets the $50,000. The only players who could've hurt him were the ones he was playing. No conspiracy.
ONB
Right I got that. However IF he was indeed asked to be part of the conspiracy then he is guilty as well of not reporting it.
We are talking felonies here, not just dumping a backer but a conspiracy to defraud a business out of money by fixing the outcome of a sporting event.
Knowing about it beforehand and not reporting it makes one an accessory I think.
As well it would have to affect his play to some degree I would think.
You are very perceptive
I think it would be interesting to look at this from another view. Let's say the dump did not happen, how many things would be contrary (evidence-wise) to that assumption?
ONB
Um, sorry but it wasn't "us" who brought it up. Beyond that what's wrong with talking about it? You think the VP of marketing for coke is reading this forum?
You guys talk about every other thing to do with player's private lives with zero regard for anyone else's feelings so why bother now?
Buddy says there was no dump. I am sure he has heard it all before so he maintains there wasn't one and those who think there was are not going to be swayed by that. I am pretty sure Varner, Sigel and the rest will say the same thing as Buddy and IT DOES NOT EFFING MATTER because you all have already convicted them in your minds.
So don't act like the length of the thread matters just because it upsets you that ANYONE could look at the situation with a different analysis. Maybe it makes you uncomfortable that some of the points in defense of the POSSIBILITY that there was no conspiracy and no dump make sense to a portion of the readers.
And you know what, ever consider that it would have been smart to bet on Lebron without any conspiracy?
Just as a hedge why not go ahead and bet the $200 or as many tickets as you could get your friends to get? Then Buddy plays on the square trying to win the 50k but if he loses to Lebron in the finals then at least he has some payday from the book?
Ever consider that? No of course not. Maybe the 11 tickets purchased on Lebron were all people who were hedging just in case he actually did win. Maybe each of the players was trying to win the whole 50 with no savers but just in case lebron got there at least they would have their sportsbook winnings.
Well, in the face of the "evidence" so far I will remain an optimist and vote that reasonable doubt exists and leave it at I don't know. As I have said a dozen times and will say a dozen more if I want to.
Can you point to some references where they are known dumpers?
Please?
BACK UP YOUR POINT WITH SOME ACTUAL PROOF.
In all my years I have seen little to no stories of these top guys dumping backers, dumping tournaments, etc...
So please share some with us.
So... you're just going to take his word for it?.... BTW, I was joking, I posted that link myself on one of these threads.
the only player I've ever heard that "beamed" when he talked about his dumps
I actually don't have any evidence that Ronnie every played on the square except for one match in Dallas on the 5/10' playing one-pocket. He's the only player I've ever heard that "beamed" when he talked about his dumps. LoL
Oh no you didn't just throw Ronnie Allen under the bus. Do you have any real evidence that Ronnie Allen dumped?
I actually don't have any evidence that Ronnie every played on the square except for one match in Dallas on the 5/10' playing one-pocket. He's the only player I've ever heard that "beamed" when he talked about his dumps. LoL
So, him not reporting it is not evidence it did no happen. And he's guilty of nothing since the SOL ran out a long time ago. Maybe he figured he had the best of it... if guys dump enough, when it's time to play straight maybe they can't.
So, we have information that a dump was brought to the attention of Earl, but of course, after Earl refused, they stopped any such plan to carry on.
The TD suspected something based on his lifetime in pool, and does not have any reason to throw them under the bus, even though technically, more like a scooter
The players bet against themselves
The obvious reaction to the missed shots was a dead giveaway. If you want to post a few video's of others that missed ducks in some other big cash tournaments and their opponents looks annoyed, then by all means, lets have a look at them. :thumbup:
So, him not reporting it is not evidence it did no happen. And he's guilty of nothing since the SOL ran out a long time ago. Maybe he figured he had the best of it... if guys dump enough, when it's time to play straight maybe they can't.
So, we have information that a dump was brought to the attention of Earl, but of course, after Earl refused, they stopped any such plan to carry on.
The TD suspected something based on his lifetime in pool, and does not have any reason to throw them under the bus, even though technically, more like a scooter
The players bet against themselves
The obvious reaction to the missed shots was a dead giveaway. If you want to post a few video's of others that missed ducks in some other big cash tournaments and their opponents looks annoyed, then by all means, lets have a look at them. :thumbup:
The whole story about Earl and scheduling the event so he couldn't play is bullshit. I have no doubt that Earl probably had some sort of conversation with RH Gilmer and probably something was said BY Earl but I am sure that if Earl couldn't stop himself from telling RH then he probably would have told other people. When is the last time Earl wasn't outspoken about what he thinks?
The key word is suspected. That does not mean proven.
As for interpreting a look, really? Are any of you mind readers? I would bet that I could find ten pictures of people making faces and have their exact thoughts as reported by them kept hidden and most people here would get a significant number wrong if asked to identify the reason for making the face.
You are going to look at a few fleeting moments and seriously tell me you can read the mind of the player? As I said before it's CONTEXT. When it's implanted in your mind that there was a possible dump then OF COURSE you are going to be projecting what you want onto the player's expressions to validate the idea of a dump happening.
I bet if we took that footage and ran a pysch experiment where 100 college students were asked to to identify the emotions displayed not even one of them would say that either player is upset because of dumping.
Then take another 100 students and say to them the match may or may not be fixed please identify the emotions displayed and I am positive a significant number will say that the players are upset because of the match being fixed. They would automatically look at the players in the context of the match being possibly fixed and because we are conditioned to expect the worst of people the bias would lean towards student's thinking they were watching a fixed match.
This isn't just fairy bullshit I am pulling out of my ass, it's proven psychology through research in anchoring and bias.
So it doesn't bother you when a person is slandered without proof?
Guess not since you do it to me.
You are very perceptive
I think it would be interesting to look at this from another view. Let's say the dump did not happen, how many things would be contrary (evidence-wise) to that assumption?
ONB
1. What are the chances that the guy that the book assigned the longest odds, actually wins, while at the same time every player in the event has the maximum they can bet, $200, bet on Lebron to win.
2. Also, why would two well respected pool guys who have a strong love for the game, one of which was working the tournament, seem so sure that this dump occurred, sure enough that they would speak openly about it. I'm speaking of Helfert and Sjm (Stu)
3. Watch the last couple of games. Buddy Hall does not play like this, especially turning the cueball loose like he did where he scratched once, and just missed scratching another time.
Buddy is one of my favorite people in life, my all time favorite player and a man I consider a friend..... But man, did that look bad! The side pocket shapes he was playing were gross, Buddy has never in his life played angles in and out so bad. As for the last break, remember, this was long before any break science was in play. Hit'em hard and hope something goes! And Lebron played so bad he almost couldn't pull it off......
I'm sure he knew how to fly the cueball off the table on the break if he wanted to. He didn't even make an attempt to. He hit them square and hard and squatted the cueball center table letting the nine roll freely.
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