Challenge of Champions dump

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So an older player was talking to my son trying to make him feel better about losing a couple of weeks back at an 8-ball tournament.

He said "Listen, Buddy Hall missed an easy shot for 50,000 dollars against a player he'd destroy any other day. So don't be sad if you had a bad day and missed some shots when a player like Buddy Hall does it also".

I kept my mouth shut but had an inside smile about that comment ;)

I wonder how many people remember that match and had to totally re-think things about it once they found out what happened.

I know I did, I watched it, and remember the commentary, then read the story on here. Quite an eye opener to re-watch it with new knowledge.
 

JB Cases

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Well if it makes you feel any better I saw Tony Ellin miss a 1ft shot against Hopkins in the Camel tour. It was a cosmo out and he just missed. It was an $8000 shot due to the difference in prize money.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
.I could have bet on myself and got 7/2 on the money, but I chose not to.

Well if it makes you feel any better I saw Tony Ellin miss a 1ft shot against Hopkins in the Camel tour. It was a cosmo out and he just missed. It was an $8000 shot due to the difference in prize money.

Every champion on earth has missed easier shots than Buddy missed. I played in the 'Challenge of Champions' after this tournament and they were still booking the matches in Las Vegas.....I could have bet on myself and got 7/2 on the money, but I chose not to.

IF Buddy would have "not been playing on the square" that match he DEFINITELY would not have broke the balls PERFECT in the last game. (he would have tried to scratch, or at least miss hit them)......the players may have did a "saver," but there was no conspiracy to dump the tournament to Mike Lebron, that's just a blown out of proportion "Wive's Tail" in the pool world......Buddy was certainly trying to win, but the pressure of $50,000 is more than many can imagine......I've been there under that kind of pressure and sometime you just have to "shoot on the right shake". :dance:
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The worst miss I ever saw on tape was the one Varner missed on the side pocket. Money ball was inches away and he flat out missed it.
Lucky for him, the 9-ball ended up nearly frozen with the cueball.
Sigel was the other guy. He whacked at it after making his patented why me gesture . He fouled of course ( at least one of them hopped out of the table ).

How come I've never seen Allison dog it?
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Every champion on earth has missed easier shots than Buddy missed. I played in the 'Challenge of Champions' after this tournament and they were still booking the matches in Las Vegas.....I could have bet on myself and got 7/2 on the money, but I chose not to.

IF Buddy would have "not been playing on the square" that match he DEFINITELY would not have broke the balls PERFECT in the last game. (he would have tried to scratch, or at least miss hit them)......the players may have did a "saver," but there was no conspiracy to dump the tournament to Mike Lebron, that's just a blown out of proportion "Wive's Tail" in the pool world......Buddy was certainly trying to win, but the pressure of $50,000 is more than many can imagine......I've been there under that kind of pressure and sometime you just have to "shoot on the right shake". :dance:

It sure looked like he was trying to scratch a few times in that match.
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Some guys on here still seem to feel it was just an off-day for Buddy,
(I was gonna mention CJ but he beat me to it).

Buddy seems like such a good guy it's hard to imagine.
I would have kept quiet too, just because I hate to disappoint someone who has seen
the beautiful way Buddy runs balls and knows how likeable he is.
And maybe because there's that 1% chance that he didn't dump,
no matter how bad it looks.

That older player's still giving good advice.
He's right... even the top pros have dogged it.
 

JB Cases

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The worst miss I ever saw on tape was the one Varner missed on the side pocket. Money ball was inches away and he flat out missed it.
Lucky for him, the 9-ball ended up nearly frozen with the cueball.
Sigel was the other guy. He whacked at it after making his patented why me gesture . He fouled of course ( at least one of them hopped out of the table ).

How come I've never seen Allison dog it?

You just haven't seen her play enough. I have seen her miss easy shots in tournament play live in China.

All top players have dogged easy shots.
 

itsfroze

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You just haven't seen her play enough. I have seen her miss easy shots in tournament play live in China.

All top players have dogged easy shots.

That's just why too, because the player at the time probably looked at the shot as an easy shot, no shot
is easy if your not focused, and the best way not to be focused is to label something as easy. :)

(or you just might miss a shot on purpose, if you're dumping)
That would have nothing to do with lack of focus, LOL
 
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JB Cases

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That's just why too, because the player at the time probably looked at the shot as an easy shot, no shot is easy if your not focused, and the best way not to be focused is to label something as easy. :)

I disagree and agree. I think a player can be focused and still miss. Sometimes they simply miss the timing and have a little muscle twitch. Sometimes they actually aim wrong. Sometimes the ball will skid or hit a small piece of chalk.

But let's just be real, there are easy shots. We all know this and there is nothing wrong with saying you blew an easy shot because that's exactly what you did when you blew the easy shot. If there were no "easy" shots then there would be no condolences for missing the "tough" shots.

Although we would like all shots to be the same, they aren't. Using an aiming system helps me to treat them almost the same but still when a shot is hard it's hard and you know it and when it's easy it's easy and you know it.

We all know it. :)
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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Silver Member
Mike Sigel used to say "it's all in the stars"

You just haven't seen her play enough. I have seen her miss easy shots in tournament play live in China.

All top players have dogged easy shots.

I just did it in my first round last weekend, missing a REALLY easy shot, and also scratching in the side for NO REASON....I have no idea what I was thinking (or not thinking;)).

Then I won 12 straight matches after this, so you can't predict what will happen....I figured I'd lose one of my next three matches....but it wan't "in the stars".

Mike Sigel used to say "it's all in the stars" and after many years I think it may be "fate," or some other esoteric factor. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 

itsfroze

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I disagree and agree. I think a player can be focused and still miss. Sometimes they simply miss the timing and have a little muscle twitch. Sometimes they actually aim wrong. Sometimes the ball will skid or hit a small piece of chalk.

But let's just be real, there are easy shots. We all know this and there is nothing wrong with saying you blew an easy shot because that's exactly what you did when you blew the easy shot. If there were no "easy" shots then there would be no condolences for missing the "tough" shots.

Although we would like all shots to be the same, they aren't. Using an aiming system helps me to treat them almost the same but still when a shot is hard it's hard and you know it and when it's easy it's easy and you know it.

We all know it. :)

My point was to respect all shots, and things will work better for you.
 

John Novak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The worst miss I ever saw on tape was the one Varner missed on the side pocket. Money ball was inches away and he flat out missed it.
Lucky for him, the 9-ball ended up nearly frozen with the cueball.
Sigel was the other guy. He whacked at it after making his patented why me gesture . He fouled of course ( at least one of them hopped out of the table ).

How come I've never seen Allison dog it?

CJ I got all the respect for you in the world, but this 8 ball was a clear dump shot on buddys part........Also the odds that Lebron would win was 20:1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y12sL1oR2s watch at 40 seconds and the shot at 6:36 Buddy can make that with his eyes closed.........they all got rich that weekend.....
 
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bfdlad

T-Wheels
Silver Member
I am going to tell you all something ad this may or may not mean anything to anyone. I have spent a bit of time with Buddy and one time I decided to bring this topic up to him. I hadn't before as I am sure it isn't one of his favorite things to talk about after all these years. Remember this was just me and Buddy nobody else around. the chat went something like this.

Me: Buddy. I got to ask you something.
BH: Whats that?
Me: The Challenge of Champions against Mike LeBron, was it a dump?? You know people think it was. Now Buddy, this is for me only. I just want to know and I will never speak a word of it to ANYONE if you tell me you dumped and if I do you can call me a liar.
BH: Mark, it wasn't a dump, I dogged my brains out. That all.

I left it at that. Maybe he didn't trust me to tell me, maybe it's one of those secrets that you just can never tell anyone or maybe he was just telling the truth. He could have told me if it happened. Just my 2 cents for what its worth.
 

jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
Every champion on earth has missed easier shots than Buddy missed. I played in the 'Challenge of Champions' after this tournament and they were still booking the matches in Las Vegas.....I could have bet on myself and got 7/2 on the money, but I chose not to.

IF Buddy would have "not been playing on the square" that match he DEFINITELY would not have broke the balls PERFECT in the last game. (he would have tried to scratch, or at least miss hit them)......the players may have did a "saver," but there was no conspiracy to dump the tournament to Mike Lebron, that's just a blown out of proportion "Wive's Tail" in the pool world......Buddy was certainly trying to win, but the pressure of $50,000 is more than many can imagine......I've been there under that kind of pressure and sometime you just have to "shoot on the right shake". :dance:

Forgot this: "This has been an completely independent political advertisement. No one has approved this announcement."
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
when it comes to rumor, and speculation in the "pool world"

CJ I got all the respect for you in the world, but this 8 ball was a clear dump shot on buddys part........Also the odds that Lebron would win was 20:1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y12sL1oR2s watch at 40 seconds

That's what a "touch of outside" will do under pressure (the ball will always under-cut). Pressure does unusual things to people whether it's baseball, tennis, golf, or yes, even pool (we're not the exception, we're the sample example).

And you'll notice Mike (who uses TOI) will over-cut the object ball under pressure.

Another rumor is "Vegas" stopped booking matches after this tournament which is clearly not true (to me) because I played in Vegas later and they were still booking the matches....you have to be very careful what you choose to believe (or not) when it comes to rumor, and speculation in the "pool world" (or any other world for that matter).
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I have talked to players that played and others that had something to do with that tournament...it was a dump. JT
 

gentleman789

Straight Pool Player
Silver Member
I wonder how many people remember that match and had to totally re-think things about it once they found out what happened.

I know I did, I watched it, and remember the commentary, then read the story on here. Quite an eye opener to re-watch it with new knowledge.


Sorry to bother you, but where can I watch it and read the story please? :)

I couldn't find anything here but I'm very interested to watch/read about it :)

Thanks in advance..
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Regarding the OP's comment about being in the know about events.....yes it's interesting sometimes to hear the way stories are presented in the pool room when you know those same stories have been analyzed to death on AZB.
 

John Novak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's what a "touch of outside" will do under pressure (the ball will always under-cut). Pressure does unusual things to people whether it's baseball, tennis, golf, or yes, even pool (we're not the exception, we're the sample example).

And you'll notice Mike (who uses TOI) will over-cut the object ball under pressure.

Another rumor is "Vegas" stopped booking matches after this tournament which is clearly not true (to me) because I played in Vegas later and they were still booking the matches....you have to be very careful what you choose to believe (or not) when it comes to rumor, and speculation in the "pool world" (or any other world for that matter).



Its amazing what you hear from those who played in it when your are sitting in the next booth having breakfast
 
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