challenge of champions...

Rjmoncrief said:
Here's what I don't understand. How can any avid pool player who loves this game still speak so highly of Buddy and others after this happened? Especially the way it happened. I've seen much better executed dumps from players that didnt play anywhere near their speed. I dont care how good they may have played its obvious what KIND of people they truly are when you witness this disgrace of the game for monetary gain. What makes it even worse is that not knowing how many we're involved there's no way to know how much cash was actually involved. And even worse, the majority of these so called legends of the game are broke! I see on this very site where there are so called fund raisers, auctions, special events, and even some asking for donations to help support these so called legends. So does what they have done for the game supposedly outweigh these disgraceful actions. I think not......I've always said that I'd love to play in a $5 ring game with some of the greatest but on second thought I wouldn't want to get dumped. We all know as pool players and especially gamblers that this takes place at all levels of the game but it certainly can't make us proud of such actions while playing the game we love. :(
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1) I heard $450K chop

2) How are the pros supposed to pay their bills

3) I'm censored
 
Rjmoncrief said:
Here's what I don't understand. How can any avid pool player who loves this game still speak so highly of Buddy and others after this happened? Especially the way it happened. I've seen much better executed dumps from players that didnt play anywhere near their speed. I dont care how good they may have played its obvious what KIND of people they truly are when you witness this disgrace of the game for monetary gain. What makes it even worse is that not knowing how many we're involved there's no way to know how much cash was actually involved. And even worse, the majority of these so called legends of the game are broke! I see on this very site where there are so called fund raisers, auctions, special events, and even some asking for donations to help support these so called legends. So does what they have done for the game supposedly outweigh these disgraceful actions. I think not......I've always said that I'd love to play in a $5 ring game with some of the greatest but on second thought I wouldn't want to get dumped. We all know as pool players and especially gamblers that this takes place at all levels of the game but it certainly can't make us proud of such actions while playing the game we love. :(
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Excellent post.
 
Rjmoncrief said:
Here's what I don't understand. How can any avid pool player who loves this game still speak so highly of Buddy and others after this happened? Especially the way it happened. I've seen much better executed dumps from players that didnt play anywhere near their speed. I dont care how good they may have played its obvious what KIND of people they truly are when you witness this disgrace of the game for monetary gain. What makes it even worse is that not knowing how many we're involved there's no way to know how much cash was actually involved. And even worse, the majority of these so called legends of the game are broke! I see on this very site where there are so called fund raisers, auctions, special events, and even some asking for donations to help support these so called legends. So does what they have done for the game supposedly outweigh these disgraceful actions. I think not......I've always said that I'd love to play in a $5 ring game with some of the greatest but on second thought I wouldn't want to get dumped. We all know as pool players and especially gamblers that this takes place at all levels of the game but it certainly can't make us proud of such actions while playing the game we love. :(
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kharma....



.
 
Great post

Rjmoncrief said:
Here's what I don't understand. How can any avid pool player who loves this game still speak so highly of Buddy and others after this happened? Especially the way it happened. I've seen much better executed dumps from players that didnt play anywhere near their speed. I dont care how good they may have played its obvious what KIND of people they truly are when you witness this disgrace of the game for monetary gain. What makes it even worse is that not knowing how many we're involved there's no way to know how much cash was actually involved. And even worse, the majority of these so called legends of the game are broke! I see on this very site where there are so called fund raisers, auctions, special events, and even some asking for donations to help support these so called legends. So does what they have done for the game supposedly outweigh these disgraceful actions. I think not......I've always said that I'd love to play in a $5 ring game with some of the greatest but on second thought I wouldn't want to get dumped. We all know as pool players and especially gamblers that this takes place at all levels of the game but it certainly can't make us proud of such actions while playing the game we love. :(
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Not sure how Mike Lebron is doing financially or if he is alive...he would be in his mid to late 70's. Sigel, Rempe
, Varner and Hopkins are not broke and living fairly well. No idea about David Howard. Davenport is partners with Johnny Archer in a pool room in Georgia...might be doing okay. The only one that is the recipient of an AZ fundraiser is Buddy Hall precipitated by Johnny Archer and others. So certain AZ members paid for a most likely broke Buddy to return to Vegas as Mosconi Cup Co-Captain...go figure!
 
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Wedge said:
Not sure how Mike Lebron is doing financially or if he is alive...he would be in his mid to late 70's. Sigel, Rempe and Hopkins are not broke and living fairly well. Davenport is partners with Johnny Archer in a pool room in Georgia...might be doing okay. The only one that is the recipient of an AZ fundraiser is Buddy Hall precipitated by Johnny Archer and others. So certain AZ members paid for a most likely broke Buddy to return to Vegas as Mosconi Cup Co-Captain...go figure!
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he's still involved w/ Marietta Billiards? and he was @ the 1991 CoCs?
 
I enjoyed the video of this game. Buddy did everything not to win and Mike did everything to screw it up. I could only imagine the thoughts going thru Buddy's head when Mike almost screwed up a lock of a steal:eek:
 
PINKLADY said:
he's still involved w/ Marietta Billiards? and he was @ the 1991 CoCs?
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The eight participants in the 1991 COC were David Howard, Nick Varner, Kim Davenport, Mike Sigel, Buddy Hall, Allen Hopkins, Mike LeBron, Jim Rempe.
 
wahcheck said:
just wondering what you all think was the worst giveaway shot of Buddy's?

Was it the missed 8 ball in the next to last game, or the missed simple 8/9
combo on the last game?

I also found it interesting that one of the posters on the onepocket thread on this subject also suspected the Hong Kong
Color of Money match might have been a dump too, because Earl lost when he was 17 games ahead.....I never thought that about that match; I also seem to recall somebody said it wasn't really $100,000 winner take all.....but that it was really $75K/$25K split....
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I watched the entire Color of Money match on youtube years ago. Earl started playing somewhat subpar after playing out of his mind, totally top gear for the first 2 days, and Efren started playing great. When it was very close at the end, Earl melted down to an extent. Not like he sometimes does now, but he lost his composure. I don't think that was a dump at all, just a huge, yet gradual, shift in momentum
 
Rjmoncrief said:
Here's what I don't understand. How can any avid pool player who loves this game still speak so highly of Buddy and others after this happened? Especially the way it happened. I've seen much better executed dumps from players that didnt play anywhere near their speed. I dont care how good they may have played its obvious what KIND of people they truly are when you witness this disgrace of the game for monetary gain. What makes it even worse is that not knowing how many we're involved there's no way to know how much cash was actually involved. And even worse, the majority of these so called legends of the game are broke! I see on this very site where there are so called fund raisers, auctions, special events, and even some asking for donations to help support these so called legends. So does what they have done for the game supposedly outweigh these disgraceful actions. I think not......I've always said that I'd love to play in a $5 ring game with some of the greatest but on second thought I wouldn't want to get dumped. We all know as pool players and especially gamblers that this takes place at all levels of the game but it certainly can't make us proud of such actions while playing the game we love. :(
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Trying to play devil's advocate here (I could be wrong here with some assumptions) :-
All these players grew up in an era when pool was popular, but there were no champions they were surrounded by hustlers. So, they got hustled growing up and when they got better they started doing the same thing to other people.
Anyone can make money doing it the hard way, the "hustle" kicks in when you get the money easy way. And that's what these guys are best at. Imagine you and your buddies set up this game which guarantees money to all of you, and the best part is you don't even have to try. Of course you are going to do it, it's the "easy way". Top of that you are going to put on a "good show" and they will never know about it and you and your buddies are going to have a blast.
Now I know that pool player within you knows that this is bad, but if you got a hustler in you then as long as you make couple of bucks it don't matter; it's kind of like a "victim less" crime.

You also asked : -
How can any avid pool player who loves this game still speak so highly of Buddy and others after this happened?
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May be his age factor comes to play and/or his skills on pool table. Sometimes if you are really good at something people often tend to ignore your "flaws".
 
grover said:
guilty by association.
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Obviously not. If you trade stocks in the ring of the NY Stock Exchange, just because the guy next to you goes to jail for insider trading doesn't mean that you are guilty of anything.
 
Allen is Guilty Period

If Allen Hopkins is not guilty.

He can post here in AZB or some where else and say he had nothing to do with the Dump.
He may forever be called a rat, but a man has to defend his reputation.

Mike Lebron told me himself that they Dumped after the Tournament.

Prior to this dump Buddy Hall was someone I respected.
He did a disservice to our Game
 
Allen knew about it and would not participate, out of his allegiance to Matt Braun. First time I've seen these last few racks in years. The missed eight ball by Buddy in rack sixteen was so UGLY! He would never miss that shot in life! And then the way he hit that eight-nine combo was something to behold. He had to take dead aim to hit it that bad. That combination was almost a hanger for the real Buddy. Of course he had six other guys counting on him. He couldn't let them down.

It's a wonder Mike made that last nine ball. Have to wonder what Buddy would have done had he hung it up. Maybe followed it in with the cue ball. CRAZY! I was standing only a few feet away during all this and my stomach was churning. Nothing I could do except gulp and hold my breath. Matt Braun was smart enough to know that something funny was going on. It's amazing that he even had the Challenge the following year.

I'll never forget the players meeting the night before the second Challenge. I KNEW what was on the agenda and at that point in the meeting Matt asked me to leave the room. I'm sure he lowered the boom on all eight players, threatening to not pay them if anything funny went on again. And it didn't! From the second year on, there were never any shenanigans again, although it is rumored that one year the finalists made a 10K saver (40 and 10). That doesn't bother me nearly as much.
 
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