Champion Players have Incredible Cue Ball Control - What is Their Secret?

[CJ Wiley]

There is a transition time with every player, it's just a matter of how abbreviated it is. We call this "The Gathering of the Shot" - players like Buddy Hall do it beautifully - this is one of the reasons he was known to have the best cue ball control in history.


This is What I've Noticed About What Buddy Hall and Other Champions Do Differently:

It requires energy to take the cue back and it takes more energy to redirect the cue. Mentally (usually sub consciously) there's a calculation that must take place to equate the forward movement of the cue with the speed and length of the shot.

We like to practice exaggerating this technique so that there's a distinct forward motion of the cue......after all, we never hit the cue ball with our back-swing, it's just used to coil the cue back before the moment of release - or they say "the moment of highest tension".

There is one school of thought that the follow through doesn't matter because the cue ball is already gone. This may be true in one respect, especially if you just look at the stroke mechanically. However, from my experience it's vital to control the after contact movement of the cue ball WITH the length of the follow through.

This is what gives the player (like Buddy Hall) that high degree of touch and feel for the game that's essential for top notch performance under pressure......when you are in that "do or die" situation do you lose your touch and feel? Maybe this will help you.

When I want the "after contact" movement of the cue ball to be exaggerated I exaggerate the follow through, when I want the "after contact" movement to be compact, I compact my follow through.....even if I want the cue ball to jump slightly I'll use a "staccato type" follow through that creates that movement so the cue ball's reaction is either delayed or accelerated.

If Buddy Hall didn't have a very good understanding of how the cue moves FORWARD from the top of the back-swing he would not be able to play at the champion's level of performance. His forward movement is one of the best I've ever seen, he never seems to be in a hurry or "reaching" for power, he always has an ample supply in his grasp.

Whether a player is aware of it or not the follow through must connect to the "after contact" reaction of the cue ball....or you'll always be playing a "guessing game," and it really shows up under the pressure of a high dollar match or tournament.

The cue ball's reaction, at the highest level is a reflection of what the cue is doing......the more you can calibrate the cue's motion to coincide with the cue ball's "after contact" reaction the better off you will be.......this is one of the essential "differences that make a difference" in winning or just coming close. 'The Inner Game is the Teacher'

 

[SJDinPHX]

There is a transition time with every player, it's just a matter of how abbreviated it is........... We call this "The Gathering
of the Shot" - <--We do ???..

...the more you can calibrate the cue's motion to coincide with the cue ball's "after contact" reaction the better off you will be.......This is one of the essential "differences that make a difference" in winning or just coming close. <--Joey needs this valuable advice....He 'comes close' a lot. :sorry:

Dear Mr. Wil-ey

Heres a post I sent to my buddy JoeyA a few days ago !..I am a little concerned, that he has not responded !..Maybe he missed it ?...Nobody loves "taking instructions" more than JoeyA !....
... Just wanted you to know, I am out there plugging away for you !..

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4426703&postcount=339

RoadRunner

 

[The Renfro]

Dear Mr. Wil-ey

Heres a post I sent to my buddy JoeyA a few days ago !..I am a little concerned, that he has not responded !..Maybe he missed it ?..Just want you to know, I am out there plugging away for you !..Nobody loves "taking instructions" more than JoeyA !

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4426703&postcount=339

RR

Seriously..... I am pretty sure In the age of SJD any of today's shortstops would be legendary.... I asked around and every one who had heard of him had not seen him play since it was off the beaten track.... If he played Freddy then at best it was a battle of short stops in a day where short stops would have been challenged on the skill level of an apa 7 today.... Their hearts and gamble were surely greater but in some ways life used to be easier...............

onepocket.org

 

[CJ Wiley]

One Pocket.....he said you were a good player. I agreed.

Dear Mr. Wil-ey

Heres a post I sent to my buddy JoeyA a few days ago !..I am a little concerned, that he has not responded !..Maybe he missed it ?...Nobody loves "taking instructions" more than JoeyA !....
... Just wanted you to know, I am out there plugging away for you !..

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4426703&postcount=339

RoadRunner

Joey, have you tried "TOI" yet ?..According to Wil-ey Coyote, you will never miss again !...
Since you've already mastered Perfect Aim, and CTE/Pro1, wouldn't that be the next logical
step to "Pool Perfection" ?..Plus, (according to Mr.Wil-ey) as an added bonus, you will be able
to learn perfect One Pocket, in just 3 short weeks !.... How 'bout dem apples, eh !

The Road Runner (aka SJD)

"never miss again".....who are you quoting, even Efren misses once an hour on average

"Pool Perfection" - as far as I know there's nothing "perfect" on this planet

"learn Perfect One Pocket" - again, this is delusional, there's no perfection in this world age....maybe in another dimension, but we won't know for a few years.

I said that it would take me 3 weeks to play top level One Pocket again....and that's true, I didn't grow up playing the game so it does take some practice because some of the "one pocket shots" are not used in any other type game. Of course you know that.

TOI is a great way to maximize margin of error and increase the pocket zone (The 3 Part Pocket System)...however, it's like "drawing" or "fading" the ball in golf, you still have to be able to hit the ball straight.....for that info it will cost a fortune ($2.95) at www.cjwiley.com

I do appreciate your interest in my techniques and systems. The gentleman I played golf with today actually knew your name and had seen you play One Pocket.....he said you were a good player. I agreed. 'The Game is Our Teacher'

 

[SJDinPHX]

Seriously..... I am pretty sure In the age of SJD any of today's shortstops would be legendary.... I asked around and every one who had heard of him had not seen him play since it was off the beaten track.... If he played Freddy then at best it was a battle of short stops in a day where short stops would have been challenged on the skill level of an apa 7 today.... Their hearts and gamble were surely greater but in some ways life used to be easier...............

I don't see the same way you do. So sit there and use your perfect vision to watch while I use my aiming system
to run out"...The Renfro

Mr. The Renfro, (very unusual first name ?)

So The, I see by your tag line, you are a complete A.S.S. (Aiming System Supporter)..This would explain your complete lack of knowledge, re; ANYTHING pool related !.. I would suggest you try
some of Mr. Wil-ey's "secret methods" (I will spring for the $2.95)..
If you, and JoeyA (another A.S.S) would just pay attention, I'm sure he would have you both up
to 'APA 3' level, in 8 or 10 years !..:sorry:

RoadRunner

 

[CJ Wiley]

interesting..... very, very interesting......

Seriously..... I am pretty sure In the age of SJD any of today's shortstops would be legendary.... I asked around and every one who had heard of him had not seen him play since it was off the beaten track.... If he played Freddy then at best it was a battle of short stops in a day where short stops would have been challenged on the skill level of an apa 7 today.... Their hearts and gamble were surely greater but in some ways life used to be easier...............

onepocket.org

That's interesting..... very, very interesting......

 

[naji]

There is a transition time with every player, it's just a matter of how abbreviated it is. We call this "The Gathering of the Shot" - players like Buddy Hall do it beautifully - this is one of the reasons he was known to have the best cue ball control in history.


This is What I've Noticed About What Buddy Hall and Other Champions Do Differently:

It requires energy to take the cue back and it takes more energy to redirect the cue. Mentally (usually sub consciously) there's a calculation that must take place to equate the forward movement of the cue with the speed and length of the shot.

We like to practice exaggerating this technique so that there's a distinct forward motion of the cue......after all, we never hit the cue ball with our back-swing, it's just used to coil the cue back before the moment of release - or they say "the moment of highest tension".

There is one school of thought that the follow through doesn't matter because the cue ball is already gone. This may be true in one respect, especially if you just look at the stroke mechanically. However, from my experience it's vital to control the after contact movement of the cue ball WITH the length of the follow through.

This is what gives the player (like Buddy Hall) that high degree of touch and feel for the game that's essential for top notch performance under pressure......when you are in that "do or die" situation do you lose your touch and feel? Maybe this will help you.

When I want the "after contact" movement of the cue ball to be exaggerated I exaggerate the follow through, when I want the "after contact" movement to be compact, I compact my follow through.....even if I want the cue ball to jump slightly I'll use a "staccato type" follow through that creates that movement so the cue ball's reaction is either delayed or accelerated.

If Buddy Hall didn't have a very good understanding of how the cue moves FORWARD from the top of the back-swing he would not be able to play at the champion's level of performance. His forward movement is one of the best I've ever seen, he never seems to be in a hurry or "reaching" for power, he always has an ample supply in his grasp.

Whether a player is aware of it or not the follow through must connect to the "after contact" reaction of the cue ball....or you'll always be playing a "guessing game," and it really shows up under the pressure of a high dollar match or tournament.

The cue ball's reaction, at the highest level is a reflection of what the cue is doing......the more you can calibrate the cue's motion to coincide with the cue ball's "after contact" reaction the better off you will be.......this is one of the essential "differences that make a difference" in winning or just coming close. 'The Inner Game is the Teacher'

I agree with what you saying to a degree, but why pros at times have horrible lag shots, after being on the table for 15 to 20 min.

 

[fathomblue]

I feel like this thread has strayed from the original intent.....

 

[Neil]

There is a transition time with every player, it's just a matter of how abbreviated it is. We call this "The Gathering of the Shot" - players like Buddy Hall do it beautifully - this is one of the reasons he was known to have the best cue ball control in history.


This is What I've Noticed About What Buddy Hall and Other Champions Do Differently:

It requires energy to take the cue back and it takes more energy to redirect the cue. Mentally (usually sub consciously) there's a calculation that must take place to equate the forward movement of the cue with the speed and length of the shot.

We like to practice exaggerating this technique so that there's a distinct forward motion of the cue......after all, we never hit the cue ball with our back-swing, it's just used to coil the cue back before the moment of release - or they say "the moment of highest tension".

There is one school of thought that the follow through doesn't matter because the cue ball is already gone. This may be true in one respect, especially if you just look at the stroke mechanically. However, from my experience it's vital to control the after contact movement of the cue ball WITH the length of the follow through.

This is what gives the player (like Buddy Hall) that high degree of touch and feel for the game that's essential for top notch performance under pressure......when you are in that "do or die" situation do you lose your touch and feel? Maybe this will help you.

When I want the "after contact" movement of the cue ball to be exaggerated I exaggerate the follow through, when I want the "after contact" movement to be compact, I compact my follow through.....even if I want the cue ball to jump slightly I'll use a "staccato type" follow through that creates that movement so the cue ball's reaction is either delayed or accelerated.

If Buddy Hall didn't have a very good understanding of how the cue moves FORWARD from the top of the back-swing he would not be able to play at the champion's level of performance. His forward movement is one of the best I've ever seen, he never seems to be in a hurry or "reaching" for power, he always has an ample supply in his grasp.

Whether a player is aware of it or not the follow through must connect to the "after contact" reaction of the cue ball....or you'll always be playing a "guessing game," and it really shows up under the pressure of a high dollar match or tournament.

The cue ball's reaction, at the highest level is a reflection of what the cue is doing......the more you can calibrate the cue's motion to coincide with the cue ball's "after contact" reaction the better off you will be.......this is one of the essential "differences that make a difference" in winning or just coming close. 'The Inner Game is the Teacher'

Why start a new thread about the same thing you got shot down on recently? http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4426945#post4426945

 

[bdorman]

What Mr. Wiley proposes here is complete and utter balderdash!

I have analyzed the threads on AZBilliards and it is clear that the two primary determinants of cue ball control are 1) the tip you use, and 2) the shaft you use.

If you can control the cue ball, then you're using the correct tip and shaft.

If not, you have the wrong tip and shaft.

Do NOT waste money on lessons. Spend your hard-earned dollars where the real action is: the tip and shaft.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Why start a new thread about the same thing you got shot down on recently? http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4426945#post4426945

I can't explain the science behind it but all I know is that I too do what CJ is talking about.

I often look at the distance the cueball needs to travel after contact and then factor in other items such as cut angle and type of English used (running or killing), then I get a feel for the length of follow through needed to execute. The whole calculation process is usually quick and not very scientific but it gives me a feel for how long the follow through needs to be in order to stop whitey on a dime and that is my key thought on those particular shots.

On every normal shot there are three desired outcomes.

1) pocket the objectball
2) send the cueball along the correct line after contact.
3) allow the cueball to travel at the right speed so that is will stop at the desired location.

I control #3 by using the length of follow through.

 

[Johnnyt]

I don't know if follow through helps any of the above things, but I follow through to help me hit my aiming spot on the OB. In most sports you follow through...you don't just stop when the ball leaves your hand. Johnnyt

 

[frankncali]

As for original posts question/thought here is my view even though its worth nothing

I play ok but not great by any means... so in some areas like the APA that I played in I was much better than others.
I never put much stock in the thought that I was "more skilled" than anyone there. I thought I put in the time and honestly was more open than 90% of people under me. They didn't pay attention and remember things.

I knew it wasn't just simply the time spent that had my level better than other so I really thought it was in a sense the ability to see shots or patterns better from paying attention and being able to recall them rather than skill.

I since have changed and believe that there is a skill/ability and that I was pretty dumb for thinking that there wasn't even on my level. SO if it exists on my lower level then the same should be on all levels above.

Pro level players are simply put more skilled than others below them. Their brains and body have more ability for the skills needed to be good at the game. Sure you can train and you can learn while getting better but it doesn't take away from THEIR ability.

 

[CreeDo]

This is actually very good advice.

If you make a mental connection between your intended speed, and the length of
your followthrough, you may find speed control to be easier, especially under pressure.

Use a long follow through for some shots requiring extra force or cue ball action.
A shorter one for stunning or quick-drawing or punching the cue ball short distances.

It's not that the followthrough literally controls the cue ball, obviously your cue can't do anything
once the cue ball has left the tip. But it's sort of a visualization trick that can make speed control
easier and more reliable for you. When you mentally rehearse a shot and imagine the outcome
(which everyone should be doing on every ball)... it's easier to imagine something you can
actually see. Like where your tip ends up when the stroke finishes.

Whereas 'visualizing' swinging your arm faster or slower is not so easy.

These visualization tricks are very touchy-feely and not related to physics or mechanics,
but they can seriously help your game. I recommend people keep an open mind and try it.
I already know it works because I use this on shots where the right speed is important.

It kind of sucks that SJD has decided he's going to follow CJ around and take little potshots
at his (legitimate) advice and turn a potentially useful thread into another stupid cartoon battle.

And others (you know who you are) should not necessarily dismiss a tip like this
just because the guy making it has been known to sell DVDs.

 

[CJ Wiley]

be at choice on how YOU prefer to experience the technique.

I can't explain the science behind it but all I know is that I too do what CJ is talking about.

I often look at the distance the cueball needs to travel after contact and then factor in other items such as cut angle and type of English used (running or killing), then I get a feel for the length of follow through needed to execute. The whole calculation process is usually quick and not very scientific but it gives me a feel for how long the follow through needs to be in order to stop whitey on a dime and that is my key thought on those particular shots.

On every normal shot there are three desired outcomes.

1) pocket the objectball
2) send the cueball along the correct line after contact.
3) allow the cueball to travel at the right speed so that is will stop at the desired location.

I control #3 by using the length of follow through.

At the highest level you should strive to have everything connect and be balanced. The follow through and the speed of the shot must be in sync., one effecting the other.

If you have a quick shot speed and a long follow through it's going to produce a different "after contact" reaction on the cue ball. Like wise if you have a slower shot speed and a short follow through it's going to make the cue ball follow an entirely different "after contact" path. ("after contact" is after contacting the object ball with the cue ball)

I like to "begin with the end in mind," and this means concentrating on producing the cue ball's path by utilizing the follow through, not the speed. They do need to be in sync. however I've found that it's difficult to think of both at the same time.....it's best to focus on one and "feel" the other.

This works the other way around as well, so be at choice on how YOU prefer to experience the technique.....it will help your cue ball control and consistency.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

At the highest level you should strive to have everything connect and be balanced. The follow through and the speed of the shot must be in sync., one effecting the other.

If you have a quick shot speed and a long follow through it's going to produce a different "after contact" reaction on the cue ball. Like wise if you have a slower shot speed and a short follow through it's going to make the cue ball follow an entirely different "after contact" path. ("after contact" is after contacting the object ball with the cue ball)

I like to "begin with the end in mind," and this means concentrating on producing the cue ball's path by utilizing the follow through, not the speed. They do need to be in sync. however I've found that it's difficult to think of both at the same time.....it's best to focus on one and "feel" the other.

This works the other way around as well, so be at choice on how YOU prefer to experience the technique.....it will help your cue ball control and consistency.

I like to pocket balls using stop shot speeds. I once told this to another player. He said I would hit too hard if I always hit at stop shot speed.

I set the CB and OB a diamond apart. I stopped the CB, with the OB ending up near the end rail. I set up the shot again, a diamond apart.

This time I stopped the CB, sending the OB off the rail to the other rail end. I set up the same shot again, sending the OB off both end rails.

Each time the cue follow through was longer and the CB stopped dead. The OB traveled increasing further distances hitting at stop speeds.
.

 

[Mitchxout]

I like to pocket balls using stop shot speeds. I once told this to another player. He said I would hit too hard if I always hit at stop shot speed.

I set the CB and OB a diamond apart. I stopped the CB, with the OB ending up near the end rail. I set up the shot again, a diamond apart.

This time I stopped the CB, sending the OB off the rail to the other rail end. I set up the same shot again, sending the OB off both end rails.

Each time the cue follow through was longer and the CB stopped dead. The OB traveled increasing further distances hitting at stop speeds.
.

You can shoot softer by hitting lower.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Trying to figure out what motivates other people is beyond my pay scale.

This is actually very good advice.

I already know it works because I use this on shots where the right speed is important.
It kind of sucks that SJD has decided he's going to follow CJ around and take little potshots
at his (legitimate) advice and turn a potentially useful thread into another stupid cartoon battle.

And others (you know who you are) should not necessarily dismiss a tip like this
just because the guy making it has been known to sell DVDs.

Trying to figure out what motivates other people is beyond my pay scale.

Life appears to be a filtration process no matter where you are or what you do.....there's going to be positive material and negative as well, it's just a matter of "sifting through" and letting them separate in your mind and "heart of hearts".

This entire week if anyone wants to watch one of my videos simply email me ( thegameistheteacher@gmail.com ) and I'll give it to you for free. :groucho: ........we're glad to have the opportunity.

'The Game is the Filter'

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Pop Shot Speed".....Omaha John was a strong advocate of this style

I like to pocket balls using stop shot speeds. I once told this to another player. He said I would hit too hard if I always hit at stop shot speed.

I set the CB and OB a diamond apart. I stopped the CB, with the OB ending up near the end rail. I set up the shot again, a diamond apart.

This time I stopped the CB, sending the OB off the rail to the other rail end. I set up the same shot again, sending the OB off both end rails.

Each time the cue follow through was longer and the CB stopped dead. The OB traveled increasing further distances hitting at stop speeds.
.

Yes, this, we used to call "Pop Shot Speed".....Omaha John was a strong advocate of this style and I used it myself....especially on the bar table with a heavy ball it's effective.

 

[Dopc]

My opinion (and it's just that) is,a good follow through is just the reflection of a good stroke. If the follow through is in the proper position/placement (for that particular type of stroke/shot) then everything that happen to get to that point was more than likely within acceptable parameters.

However, it is not a requirement (example being a poke type stroke or punch shot). While this method is frowned upon from a fundamental standpoint, it can in certain situations have some merit and benefit if one can control it and its reaction on the cue ball.

The example given regarding the golf swing, the follow through is so vital in the fact that it promotes the club "to release" through impact. Promoting both power and club head speed, allowing the "club" to do the work.The follow through in the swing will more than likely be the "tell sign" of the clubs path through the swing (not so much the club face angle or degree of impact). Same with the follow through of a pool stroke. While both sports are extremely different, there are a lot of similarities that both apply to one another. It's just that one of those sports require much more timing and coordination of a larger group of muscles than the other.

Again, these are just my opinions coming from a complete nobody, so take it with a grain of salt.

Dopc.