You either a) don't get out much or b) play with a bunch of players with bad breaks......
Either way.... Bring your wallet and you can get an education on when to apply your avatar.......... Even old dogs should try to learn new tricks......
Cheating on the 8 ball rack
- Thread starter 8balllark
- Start date
You either a) don't get out much or b) play with a bunch of players with bad breaks......
Either way.... Bring your wallet and you can get an education on when to apply your avatar.......... Even old dogs should try to learn new tricks......
Racking
First off, buy Joe Tuckers Racking Secrets DVD. You will learn far more than you ever hoped. But on that, he doesn't go into so much detail on racking/breaking 8 ball to cheat.
9 ball is, on the other hand, completely open to reading the rack (or racking yourself) to an advantage that can make the match one sided. I have just started reading the rack and I am probably 75% chance of predicting a ball on the break. I recently got a Magic Rack and that makes it even easier to predict a ball on the break.
Now 8-ball is a different story, no direct tangent line is able to be manipulated. Even if you tilt the rack slightly there are no tangent lines that are "on". Maybe help the lead ball (1 ball) but not quite. Now I have a monster break (close to 27 mph) but that doesn't always help. I determined 20 - 23 mph with a rock solid hit gives the best results.
All I can say from the original post is:
1) The table was breaking really well
2) You over exagerrate on how well the breaks were going
3) These so called 'cheaters' know something 99.9% of the pool community doesn't know
4) The other team was all high level players that are cheaters and very well at hiding it it
I'll assume it was #2
First off, buy Joe Tuckers Racking Secrets DVD. You will learn far more than you ever hoped. But on that, he doesn't go into so much detail on racking/breaking 8 ball to cheat.
9 ball is, on the other hand, completely open to reading the rack (or racking yourself) to an advantage that can make the match one sided. I have just started reading the rack and I am probably 75% chance of predicting a ball on the break. I recently got a Magic Rack and that makes it even easier to predict a ball on the break.
Now 8-ball is a different story, no direct tangent line is able to be manipulated. Even if you tilt the rack slightly there are no tangent lines that are "on". Maybe help the lead ball (1 ball) but not quite. Now I have a monster break (close to 27 mph) but that doesn't always help. I determined 20 - 23 mph with a rock solid hit gives the best results.
All I can say from the original post is:
1) The table was breaking really well
2) You over exagerrate on how well the breaks were going
3) These so called 'cheaters' know something 99.9% of the pool community doesn't know
4) The other team was all high level players that are cheaters and very well at hiding it it
I'll assume it was #2
Didn't know you were that inexperienced. You gave no indication of it. As someone else said, look for Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets. Look for spaces between the balls. Look to see if the rack is on or off the spot. Look to see if the rack is tilted. If any or all of these are being used, complain to your LO, to a captain if there is one. I haven't played 8 ball much over the years but these are all common complaints, as you've already discovered.
Oh, and try not to lower yourself to their level. Winning fair is much, much more satisfying.
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On a valley barbox it's somewhat common to make 4+ balls on the break. I've seen it a dozen or so times since I started playing pool (a year ago), but obviously not every game like the OP describes. Maybe even more times than that, I wasn't really counting. As a matter of fact I think I have video of me doing just that. You just gotta stop hitting it with your purse sally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fwCfQ7XAEQ
Unless the 8 on the break is a win,I cannot think of anyway to cheat the break in 8 ball.IMO the best way to make balls on the break is to rack every ball frozen.As far as the position of the rack,racking high or low could wire up one of the wing balls in the close corner pocket or the head ball in the side.
Just based on your post I would guess that the balls were being racked tight,it was a good racking table and the players were able to hit the rack very solidly.Its not all that uncommon to see players with moderate skills who can crush a bar-box-8-ball rack.
Just based on your post I would guess that the balls were being racked tight,it was a good racking table and the players were able to hit the rack very solidly.Its not all that uncommon to see players with moderate skills who can crush a bar-box-8-ball rack.
If they were all breaking from the same spot and at a very similar speed, as you said, then I have to ask, was the table being played on their "home" table or one they played on a lot? They might just know something about how that table breaks that you don't know.
I know for example that out of all 10 tables in my home room, that I can pretty consistently make a ball on table #8 breaking from a specific spot with medium speed, table #2 from a different spot with medium-firm speed, and table #5 from a completely different spot with a medium-soft speed.
I also don't slam 8 ball racks. I find sticking right around 20 works best for the pro-cut Diamonds.
All of what I just said is in a "rack your own" assumption.
I know for example that out of all 10 tables in my home room, that I can pretty consistently make a ball on table #8 breaking from a specific spot with medium speed, table #2 from a different spot with medium-firm speed, and table #5 from a completely different spot with a medium-soft speed.
I also don't slam 8 ball racks. I find sticking right around 20 works best for the pro-cut Diamonds.
All of what I just said is in a "rack your own" assumption.
They may have just found the sweet spot on the table that night. Were they all breaking from the same spot? Breaking around the same speed? If someone is breaking very well, a good player will try to imitate the breaker by breaking in the same spot, racking the same way, same speed, etc. Break the way they do and see if you get the same results. If you do, then the playing field is evened out. If it doesn't work, just check the rack to see if it's angled or racked high. It just might be their night.
I've seen a table go from breaking very well in a certain spot to not making any balls at all in the same set. There are so many variables.
I've seen a table go from breaking very well in a certain spot to not making any balls at all in the same set. There are so many variables.
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Okey Dokey
First, it is a bar box league, my apologies, that should have been stated in my initial post, I've been in the league for around 10 years now, im not a rookie, and the skill level I would say is around the high C's, on average, we run the odd table here and there type.
As to the validity of my claim? When Five guys step up to break and pot 4 or more balls off the break consecutively after each other, have a history of shady antics, these are things that make me go hmmmmmm
Hence the reason im posting and asking for folks advice
I for one want to know how its done, call it a need to know, I fail to see the reasoning of making up nonsense just to gain your opinions? It happened, so I posted, couldn’t care less if you believe it or not.
Yes sir, a couple years ago the league switched to a rack your own rule, as a poster had suggested, a lot of bickering and complaining about bad racks, poor sportsmanship and fighting, especially during the playoffs so the league decided to switch. I can see both the pros and cons of both sides but remain indifferent.
I was privileged enough to take a lesson with Johnny Archer, he told me, Make sure the balls around the 8 are tight, always touching, and the head ball is touching, aim for head ball with the intent of a dead on flush strike, if the QB squats then you know it was a dead on hit, if the QB squirts to either side you know it wasn’t dead on.
I also try a lot of follow threw with the break stroke. More then likely my break stroke is horrendous.
Honestly I didn’t count the high or low balls, so I couldn’t answer that, sorry.
I've read pattern racking on this site before, I thought the prevailing thought on it was it really doesn't matter?
I have a hard time believing this was just one of those good nights, I would be more open to believe they were participating in a low percentage cheating action and having a good night with that then just being out right lucky. Or, im flat out paranoid.
Either way im just making conversation.
So first you make an assumptive post as to mine being such a simplistic and offensive to one so skilled as yourself that your initial arrogant reply was to the all inspiring guidance of "Sheesh"
Then you make condescending remarks to my lack of experience whilst regurgitating information that was already posted buy folks here who actually give a $hit.
Then Finish off the post with a holier than thou comment about integrity and self satisfaction?
Sir, from the bottom of my heart I sincerely wish you to go forth and fornicate with yourself. Thank you.
First, it is a bar box league, my apologies, that should have been stated in my initial post, I've been in the league for around 10 years now, im not a rookie, and the skill level I would say is around the high C's, on average, we run the odd table here and there type.
As to the validity of my claim? When Five guys step up to break and pot 4 or more balls off the break consecutively after each other, have a history of shady antics, these are things that make me go hmmmmmm
Hence the reason im posting and asking for folks advice
I for one want to know how its done, call it a need to know, I fail to see the reasoning of making up nonsense just to gain your opinions? It happened, so I posted, couldn’t care less if you believe it or not.
Yes sir, a couple years ago the league switched to a rack your own rule, as a poster had suggested, a lot of bickering and complaining about bad racks, poor sportsmanship and fighting, especially during the playoffs so the league decided to switch. I can see both the pros and cons of both sides but remain indifferent.
I was privileged enough to take a lesson with Johnny Archer, he told me, Make sure the balls around the 8 are tight, always touching, and the head ball is touching, aim for head ball with the intent of a dead on flush strike, if the QB squats then you know it was a dead on hit, if the QB squirts to either side you know it wasn’t dead on.
I also try a lot of follow threw with the break stroke. More then likely my break stroke is horrendous.
Yes you can, but like I said if I don’t know what im looking for then it wouldn’t matter.
Honestly I didn’t count the high or low balls, so I couldn’t answer that, sorry.
I've read pattern racking on this site before, I thought the prevailing thought on it was it really doesn't matter?
I have a hard time believing this was just one of those good nights, I would be more open to believe they were participating in a low percentage cheating action and having a good night with that then just being out right lucky. Or, im flat out paranoid.
Either way im just making conversation.
So first you make an assumptive post as to mine being such a simplistic and offensive to one so skilled as yourself that your initial arrogant reply was to the all inspiring guidance of "Sheesh"
Then you make condescending remarks to my lack of experience whilst regurgitating information that was already posted buy folks here who actually give a $hit.
Then Finish off the post with a holier than thou comment about integrity and self satisfaction?
Sir, from the bottom of my heart I sincerely wish you to go forth and fornicate with yourself. Thank you.
I still find it hard to fathom that is was an intentional cheat...seems like it would be easier to learn how to play.
And wouldn't they all need to know speed/ break set-up and be able to replicate both?
Seems a bit far-fetched to me. WTF do I know tho? Yuu were there.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't ou to get you.
George is seen naked by Jerry's girlfriend Rachel , to whom he tries vainly to explain that, having just gotten out of the cold water ...
If you've been playing 10 years and don't know what to look for, you haven't learned very much, have you? I give a shit but you obviously want to combat cheating with cheating, so same to you.
Seriously? Last night I racked up 8 ball and put 4 balls in on my first break. They were all stripes, and I didn't get out!!! I made 3 several more times over the evening. I've made 6 balls twice. Once it was all stripes!!! I didn't get out that time either. Cue ball settled in the jaws of the corner and my only ball was a very tough shot. To be fair, last night was on a 9' Gold Crown in superb shape with Simonis 760 and generous pockets. But both times I made 6 was on an 8' with slow cloth and tighter pockets. I have a pretty sporty break...
KMRUNOUT
I play rack your own league. I give myself a good tight legal rack.
I have been experimenting with break speeds to see what works best.
So far for me if I hit them as hard as I can with my break cue it seems as though the balls are fighting each other and they just bang around.
So I tried about a 3/4 speed break with my playing cue as it's like they spread out real nice and most of the time I make a ball or two plus the cue ball can be controlled better.
I have been experimenting with break speeds to see what works best.
So far for me if I hit them as hard as I can with my break cue it seems as though the balls are fighting each other and they just bang around.
So I tried about a 3/4 speed break with my playing cue as it's like they spread out real nice and most of the time I make a ball or two plus the cue ball can be controlled better.
Here's a tip. Next time you make 4 stripes on the break don't choose the solids.:grin:
Hope this helps.
j/k
Here's a tip. Next time you make 4 stripes on the break don't choose the solids.:grin:
Hope this helps.
j/k
Haha!!! Actually I was playing APA rules...I wish I could have chosen the solids!! I'd always take 7 wide open balls than 3 tricky ones.
KMRUNOUT