Chinese 8 ball

Scaramouche said:
January 2015.

http://www.billiardsboutique.com/blogs/news/18068064-what-is-chinese-8-ball
it all the more amazing that a country with the population and sheer size of China has managed to implement one rule-set, with the aim of advancing a sport beyond its seemingly natural limits.

What a concept :shocked2::shocked2::shocked2:
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They haven't. For example a notable exception to the event that Appleton won was Gareth Potts - because he plays in the other half and wasn't allowed to enter.
 
AtLarge said:
Why are you building a table with a 42" x 102" playing surface? Space limitations on the width, but you want to be able to shoot long shots?
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Yes on the long shot, a must for the challenge of sight and temperament (speed). The width is the compromise of accommodating the 4Ball rack, having it as long as possible and not being a handling issue. Overall it’s trying to meet the demands of space - floor and playability, with the added twist of 622 rack locations and their boundaries’ that 4Ball has. The side pockets can be the devil to the game or the savior, time will only tell. I'm pretty well settled on the corner pocket dimensions, these side pockets, not sure. Trying to describe what I’m up to is going to be better with video; I’m just not there yet.
 
voiceofreason said:
Comparing any cue sport to football (or as you call it soccer) has to be a joke. Top football stars will earn £250,000 a week. With many thousands of players world wide earning livings and paying mortgages out of their earnings.

Even non-league football teams in the UK pay their players for matches.

Snooker is easily the biggest cuesport earner and still lists Stephen Hendry as the biggest prize winner of all time at around £9m TOTAL prize money - a couple of years wages for any one of several top football players.

Gareth Potts I know has a sponsorship deal worth $50,000. It would surprise me a great deal to hear that he quadruples that again and makes it $250,000 per annum - less than a week's wages then for top footballers.

Edited to include the current snooker world ranking lists:

http://www.worldsnooker.com/rankings/

And a page listing the top ten football earners:

http://tsmplay.com/top10/highest-paid-football-players-in-the-world/
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Well I know I did not make it up or exaggerate what I read or saw so I went looking for it again. This time I found a statement on Gareth Potts web page saying that the first prize for the Chinese 8 ball Masters alone was $50,000. That is not a shared pot. Here is the quote

"In front of sell-out crowds of 3,000 at the Qinhuangdao Olympic Sports Center Stadium, and with live TV coverage on CCTV5, as well as live streaming on the internet, it was a much bigger event than last year, with a $50,000 first prize up for grabs."

After looking through my internet history I found this:

http://www.billiardsboutique.com/blogs/news/18068064-what-is-chinese-8-ball

I believe that is where I got the reference to soccer pay.

I am not trying to make waves here as I am still new I am just trying to learn more about pool and billiards as it seems to me to be changing drastically. From what I have read on here before there is no money in pool and that coupled with lack of television coverage has been a major reason it has not grown in popularity.
 
Kevin3824 said:
Well I know I did not make it up or exaggerate what I read or saw so I went looking for it again. This time I found a statement on Gareth Potts web page saying that the first prize for the Chinese 8 ball Masters alone was $50,000. That is not a shared pot. Here is the quote

"In front of sell-out crowds of 3,000 at the Qinhuangdao Olympic Sports Center Stadium, and with live TV coverage on CCTV5, as well as live streaming on the internet, it was a much bigger event than last year, with a $50,000 first prize up for grabs."

After looking through my internet history I found this:

http://www.billiardsboutique.com/blogs/news/18068064-what-is-chinese-8-ball

I believe that is where I got the reference to soccer pay.

I am not trying to make waves here as I am still new I am just trying to learn more about pool and billiards as it seems to me to be changing drastically. From what I have read on here before there is no money in pool and that coupled with lack of television coverage has been a major reason it has not grown in popularity.
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I didn't mean to imply you were lying. I believe you heard it - think they are smoking funny things is all.

It is not the lack of money that makes it unwatchable. Consider that most olympic athletes get paid next to nothing.

The Mosconi cup is not about the money - the most viewed pool in the world.
 
Darren Appleton's thoughts from the Joy Masters thread about the game were nice to read. Generally that Chinese 8-ball is the only proper format of 8-ball for actual professional pool and that the game really separates the skill levels and only the elite with top shelf cuing ability and 8-ball knowledge have a realistic chance to win these events.
 
Celtic said:
Darren Appleton's thoughts from the Joy Masters thread about the game were nice to read. Generally that Chinese 8-ball is the only proper format of 8-ball for actual professional pool and that the game really separates the skill levels and only the elite with top shelf cuing ability and 8-ball knowledge have a realistic chance to win these events.
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I have sympathy for his view. He's a bit behind the times though as English 8 Ball has a decent established professional tour with international events including:

England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Eire, Gibraltar, Malta, South Africa, Norway.

The prize money is not brilliant, but the prize money in all pool is poor relative to top paying sports like golf and football so who cares? The players love it, indeed, the tour for 2016 was full a full five months before the first event.

ipapool.com
 
...but blackball/English 8 ball isn't really pool - it's a snookerized version of the game developed for and then from English pubs and their snooker aware customers back in the day. Chinese 8 ball is still pool as it has pool rules with tougher table conditions. I'm guessing that Darren Appleton's stance that C8B is the best variant comes from his respect for A8B as a game combined with the tougher conditions of C8B. Where I disagree is that a pool table has pockets cut a certain way so that certain shots can be played that can't be played on snooker style tables. These shots are an inherent part of the game - and this aspect of the game is important.

Darren Appleton certainly isn't behind the times - he graduated from E8B to A8B.
 
Swighey said:
...but blackball/English 8 ball isn't really pool
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it is to us young man, whereas we laugh at your enormous pockets and complete lack of cohesion and any decent tournaments or tours.

How is the world wide professional american pool tour going anyway? ;)

Who is number one?

Touche
 
voiceofreason said:
it is to us young man, whereas we laugh at your enormous pockets and complete lack of cohesion and any decent tournaments or tours.
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er, I'm English mate. The pockets aren't enormous, they are cut differently.

voiceofreason said:
How is the world wide professional american pool tour going anyway?
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I don't get the relevance of pitching a game with a tour against a game in disarray that there is still more money in.

All that aside, I have nothing against E8B. I just think it's not pool, as I've already stated here and elsewhere. Certainly it is a tougher game in some ways. And if you prefer it that's all good.
 
Swighey said:
er, I'm English mate. The pockets aren't enormous, they are cut differently.
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Or enormous - just matter of opinion

I don't get the relevance of pitching a game with a tour against a game in disarray that there is still more money in.
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Making the point it can't really be taken that seriously if there is no relevant international structure or cohesion or even a professional series of events.

From the point of view of other sports at least.

Not convinced by the money side of things either - lots of little regional events at e8b too and bug money matches.

All that aside, I have nothing against E8B. I just think it's not pool, as I've already stated here and elsewhere. Certainly it is a tougher game in some ways. And if you prefer it that's all good.
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I have nothing against AP either, hence why I visit this site and watch the odd game. I'm not adverse to taking part in other sport too, for example I ski whenever I can. I also quite like watching darts.

I'd probably play more AP if there was anywhere near me it could be played and there as a decent structure to it. I do enjoy playing it.

It's interesting that E8B players like Appleton and Shaw can come over and with their better fundamentals honed whilst playing E8B can do so well.
 
Kevin3824 said:
How many here think Chinese 8 ball can or will save pool in America? It seems to have exponentially larger prizes and audiences. It requires a lot more skills and is played on tables that are not only more challenging then snooker or American tables but also not half as wide as they are long. Chinese 8 ball table is 9 x 5 and weigh over a ton. I have a hard time picturing them in bars or even most homes here simply because of their size, weight, and lack of mobility. The slate beds appear to be 3-4 inches thick.

I for one would love to see it become popular here though. No more luck shots allowed. All skill game.
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I'll give it about the same chance as ever bar in the states wanting and having blue label Diamond seven foot bar tables.
 
voiceofreason said:
Not convinced by the money side of things either - lots of little regional events at e8b too and bug money matches.
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Not even close

voiceofreason said:
It's interesting that E8B players like Appleton and Shaw can come over and with their better fundamentals honed whilst playing E8B can do so well.
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There's no doubt that E8B (and snooker) is a better breeding ground for those fundamentals. It's still not pool though. Football (soccer) and rugby are better breeding grounds for kickers in American Football. But they are not American football.

E8B is a fine game (but please Lord make the cue ball the same size as the object balls) with a strong tradition and a particular tactical skill set. And even though the skills are largely transferable, it isn't really pool at all - no need to pretend it is.
 
Celtic said:
Darren Appleton's thoughts from the Joy Masters thread about the game were nice to read. Generally that Chinese 8-ball is the only proper format of 8-ball for actual professional pool and that the game really separates the skill levels and only the elite with top shelf cuing ability and 8-ball knowledge have a realistic chance to win these events.
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I absolutely cannot agree that Chinese 8 ball is the only proper format for 8 ball for pro pool. No way and here is why. C8 is of course an exacting format requiring amazing pocketing skills and incredibly precise position play. But where it falls short IMO is the easy easy easy easy defense, if a ball is frozen the rail it is nearly impossible to make, if it is within a half ball of the rail is is almost impossible unless close to the pocket. These players of course still make amazing shots under those conditions but they are the very elite at it.

I sat in the booth and watch pros play barbox 8 ball on Diamonds for a few days. These guys had to navigate layouts and come with shots that were triple tough but possible. In C8 those same outs would have been impossible and led to bunt safeties to impossible positions.

I think regular 8 ball on regular tables opens up far more shots and runout possibilities, it allows for daring bank shots, makes playing safe MUCH MUCH MUCH tougher, and yet still rewards the straightest shooters.

I feel like the top players in C8 would feel like they had a whole new world opened up to them if they play 8 ball on regular tables.

I for, one appreciate, both versions and find them both true tests of skill, pocket size and cut aren't everything. You will NEVER see a guy in C8 jack up and cut a ball down the rail with super draw to come back and around three rails for the only position possible to get to the 8. You will see other amazing shots within the realm of possibility but none like that. You will almost never see a bank attempted in C8 and when then it is almost always to the larger side pocket.

One thing is certain though, regular 8 ball players who are used to getting away with touching the rail on the way in constantly as they run out have NO CHANCE to win a C8 event. None. The margin of error is pretty close to zero when shooting in C8 so when a player subconsciously knows he can spin the cueball and that the object ball at "pocket speed" is ok if it touches the rail on the way in is handicapped in C8 because all those shots are no longer available to him.
 
Island Drive said:
I'll give it about the same chance as ever bar in the states wanting and having blue label Diamond seven foot bar tables.
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Surprisingly, in OKC a LOT of the bars have Diamonds. I was surprised to see so many of them. But also disappointed that some of the bar owners then turn around and treat them like crap.
 
Nice post. I agree 100%. What I would add though is that it will/would be good to see more elite level C8B events with top pool players, snooker players and the likes of Gareth Potts. The more that these guys play this game, the bigger range of shots we'll see - and we shouldn't be surprised if they try some of those shots you mention (albeit not as often as in "A8B"). Still, I agree with you - "using the table" is part and parcel of 8 ball pool.
 
Swighey said:
Not even close



There's no doubt that E8B (and snooker) is a better breeding ground for those fundamentals. It's still not pool though. Football (soccer) and rugby are better breeding grounds for kickers in American Football. But they are not American football.

E8B is a fine game (but please Lord make the cue ball the same size as the object balls) with a strong tradition and a particular tactical skill set. And even though the skills are largely transferable, it isn't really pool at all - no need to pretend it is.
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In red - is merely your opinion, one not shared by many let alone by all.

The rest of the paragraph:

But it is close. More than close.

It is not relevant. E8B does not claim to be the be all and end all of 8B. It is merely a discipline of pool and the WPA, the world body, agrees so ner ner ner.

it is C8B and/or some of it's advocates that make a claim to the title not E8B.
 
Yes it is my opinion and that of others. Many others will disagree - but they are usually those who think that "American" pool isn't "real pool" which, if you think about it, is a bit ridiculous.

Yep the WPA recognizes blackball but doesn't recognize C8B but recognizes C8B tournaments but not E8B ones - as you alluded to in earlier posts, the WPA is a ropey organization. It's a shame because such a great game has a shambling wreck of an organizing body.

The WPA sanctions one form of E8B (blackball) that has introduced some proper pool rules to the English pub game to make it more like real pool. It doesn't recognize the other set of rules. This is a step in the right direction - the tables might be different but the rules should be pool rules, not silly "two shots carry" and block the pockets stuff dreamt up by a drunk Alex Higgins and some old snooker farts with real ale dripping from their beards. We are a long way off but if the pool played on UK style tables gets closer and closer by stealth to proper pool rules then we have a game.

And it really isn't close.
 
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