Chopdoc, How Bad Is It, Adam Blackstone & St. Moritz

cuesblues

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
After reading the Viking thread I think I paid too much for these 2 Adam cues.
Give it to me straight doc, how bad is it, how long do I have before I go broke in the world of vintage production cues.
The Blackstone is a creampuff if that helps, both straight, nice full shafts



 
You didn’t over pay if you love them. Just means they’re worth more to you. Those are both beautiful cues!
 
Chopdoc said:
Those are beautiful cues! Classics.

I am jealous. :smile:

.
Click to expand...


They seem to get bid-up pretty good on Ebay these days and in the past I always
wondered why they weren't more popular.
When I talk to guys who have them I've been able to put some deals together, but I
saw your equation on that Viking thread and got a little concerned.
I've never been one to consider the Blue Book for pricing but based on what I've
seen the BB prices are pretty close to what I'm seeing on these old Adam Helmstetter cues.

What do you think?

As far as playability they are okay, I could play with them.
I wouldn't call them fantastic playing cues, but I need to give them a better tryout with new tips.
The metal threaded tenon for the ferrules are not the same as the set screws in the
old Verl Horn cues and other custom cues I've seen with set screw tenons.
With the construction & glues they used back then I think they would play better with
a different ferrule system but I prefer to keep everything original whenever possible.
Hate to change it
 
A good cue maker traded me one of his cues for an old Helmsttter.
....he loved it.

...and I felt that for 20 years, Viking was the best of the production cue makers....
...which made me feel a bit weird...’cause Vikings burned down some of my ancestor’s
villages......:mad:
 
pt109 said:
A good cue maker traded me one of his cues for an old Helmsttter.
....he loved it.

...and I felt that for 20 years, Viking was the best of the production cue makers....
...which made me feel a bit weird...’cause Vikings burned down some of my ancestor’s
villages......:mad:
Click to expand...


It's more weird that you thought Vikings were better than Meucci, McDermott, Schon... ;)
 
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ideologist said:
It's more weird that you thought Gikimgs were better than Meucci, McDermott, Schon... ;)
Click to expand...

I’ve never considered Schōn as a production cue....
...for me, it’s a grey area, sorta like a lot of Benzs, not a Porsche, but not a Pontiac.
 
pt109 said:
...which made me feel a bit weird...’cause Vikings burned down some of my ancestor’s
villages......:mad:
Click to expand...

Some of that stuff you have to let go.
For instance what about the Jews.
At some point there has to be a statute of limitations on conspiracy to commit murder.
I can assure you we are sorry, and wish it would have never happened.
 
cuesblues said:
They seem to get bid-up pretty good on Ebay these days and in the past I always
wondered why they weren't more popular.
When I talk to guys who have them I've been able to put some deals together, but I
saw your equation on that Viking thread and got a little concerned.
I've never been one to consider the Blue Book for pricing but based on what I've
seen the BB prices are pretty close to what I'm seeing on these old Adam Helmstetter cues.

What do you think?

As far as playability they are okay, I could play with them.
I wouldn't call them fantastic playing cues, but I need to give them a better tryout with new tips.
The metal threaded tenon for the ferrules are not the same as the set screws in the
old Verl Horn cues and other custom cues I've seen with set screw tenons.
With the construction & glues they used back then I think they would play better with
a different ferrule system but I prefer to keep everything original whenever possible.
Hate to change it
Click to expand...
I have a old Orchid cue a decal cue but it has a uniloc joint I decided to stick my Revo on it because I don't have a butt for it , Bam instant monster player , we just saw DO win a tourney with a universal cue with a Predator shaft , , imho butts are overrated in the playing ability of a cue,, have shaft will travel

1
 
cuesblues said:
They seem to get bid-up pretty good on Ebay these days and in the past I always
wondered why they weren't more popular.
When I talk to guys who have them I've been able to put some deals together, but I
saw your equation on that Viking thread and got a little concerned.
I've never been one to consider the Blue Book for pricing but based on what I've
seen the BB prices are pretty close to what I'm seeing on these old Adam Helmstetter cues.

What do you think?

As far as playability they are okay, I could play with them.
I wouldn't call them fantastic playing cues, but I need to give them a better tryout with new tips.
The metal threaded tenon for the ferrules are not the same as the set screws in the
old Verl Horn cues and other custom cues I've seen with set screw tenons.
With the construction & glues they used back then I think they would play better with
a different ferrule system but I prefer to keep everything original whenever possible.
Hate to change it
Click to expand...

Formula? I think I said the cue was worth about 150 to 200, depending on condition, of course.

What I had mentioned was my "used stuff" formula. 50% of discounted MSRP or full retail. That does not apply to something with collectible value or inherently exclusive or high quality goods.

Most of the time I avoid the value issue because someone always seems to feel like they got their dick stepped on.

Cues like yours do well on Ebay. The best estimate usually comes from recent comparables. Your cues are collected.

But since you asked about the formula, I am curious where that Viking would be using it. I'll check shortly.....

Edit:

It is a 1974 X90. 90 being the model as well as the MSRP.

90 less 20% (discounted retail) gives 72 in 1974
Adjusted for inflation, that's $389.34
50% of $389 is $194.50

Worked pretty well I think. :wink:

If you check comparables on Ebay, 200 is high. 150 is closer...but you can get a Viking window cue with points and veneers for around 100.

But...it's in the ball park.

I would call it a $100 cue all day, $150 if in nice shape, and well listed, with good photos.

I also think it has little to do with your Adam cues, so I am surprised you bring it up.

.
 
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Chopdoc said:
Formula? I think I said the cue was worth about 150 to 200, depending on condition, of course.

What I had mentioned was my "used stuff" formula. 50% of discounted MSRP or full retail. That does not apply to something with collectible value or inherently exclusive or high quality goods.

Most of the time I avoid the value issue because someone always seems to feel like they got their dick stepped on.

Cues like yours do well on Ebay. The best estimate usually comes from recent comparables. Your cues are collected.

But since you asked about the formula, I am curious where that Viking would be using it. I'll check shortly.....

Edit:

It is a 1974 X90. 90 being the model as well as the MSRP.

90 less 20% (discounted retail) gives 72 in 1974
Adjusted for inflation, that's $389.34
50% of $389 is $194.50

Worked pretty well I think. :wink:

If you check comparables on Ebay, 200 is high. 150 is closer...but you can get a Viking window cue with points and veneers for around 100.

But...it's in the ball park.

I would call it a $100 cue all day, $150 if in nice shape, and well listed, with good photos.

I also think it has little to do with your Adam cues, so I am surprised you bring it up.

.
Click to expand...

I knew I was paying too much when I bought them but condition and especially shaft
condition goes a long way with me on these cool vintage cues.
It's hard to find them with perfect and full shafts that haven't been turned down or
maintained with a scotch brite.

It's amazing how many of the old Josswest shafts seem to have been ordered at
12.0 mm or 12.5 mm, turned down or sanded, but the ones with full 13mm shafts
are getting harder to find and more and more valuable.
I can see why people do it as some of them are a little bulky to play with, but it hurts the value.

I've noticed that all of the Willie Hoppe shafts I get are 12mm.
 
cuesblues said:
I knew I was paying too much when I bought them but condition and especially shaft
condition goes a long way with me on these cool vintage cues.
It's hard to find them with perfect and full shafts that haven't been turned down or
maintained with a scotch brite.

It's amazing how many of the old Josswest shafts seem to have been ordered at
12.0 mm or 12.5 mm, turned down or sanded, but the ones with full 13mm shafts
are getting harder to find and more and more valuable.
I can see why people do it as some of them are a little bulky to play with, but it hurts the value.

I've noticed that all of the Willie Hoppe shafts I get are 12mm.
Click to expand...

I like to say condition is everything.

Yeah, lots of turned down or worn shafts out there on good cues...because they were played. I have six shafts for my old block letter Joss. Two Scruggs. Two Stroud. And two originals, full size (13+mm), with ivory ferrules. Those originals are treasures to me.

Cues like those Adam cues in excellent condition are not easy to find. You will pay a premium.

.
 
Chopdoc said:
I like to say condition is everything.

Yeah, lots of turned down or worn shafts out there on good cues...because they were played. I have six shafts for my old block letter Joss. Two Scruggs. Two Stroud. And two originals, full size (13+mm), with ivory ferrules. Those originals are treasures to me.

Cues like those Adam cues in excellent condition are not easy to find. You will pay a premium.

.
Click to expand...


I know you rarely sell anything but if you ever want to trade something for your Stroud shafts I am definitely interested.
Picked up 2 amazing 3/8-10 block letter Joss shafts with ivory ferrules, 29" and they are similar ringwork as my early 3/8-10 ivory jointed Josswest.
The difference is above and below the large maple blocks the rings are maple and the Josswest they are implex.
I heard they ran out of implex when Tim Scruggs started making them.
Two of the best shafts I've seen, we put Tad tips on them.
 
The Stroud shafts?

If I ever go insane and sell them, you are welcome to buy them for a vulgar amount of money. Have compassion for the psychiatrically disabled, the financial burden of my care on my wife would be tremendous.

The last time I used one it missed a bit. I think most of the good shots have been used up. So it might not be as good as you think. :wink:

.
 
cuesblues said:
Some of that stuff you have to let go.
For instance what about the Jews.
At some point there has to be a statute of limitations on conspiracy to commit murder.
I can assure you we are sorry, and wish it would have never happened.
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself!!!!
:eek::D:D
 
Chopdoc said:
The Stroud shafts?

If I ever go insane and sell them, you are welcome to buy them for a vulgar amount of money. Have compassion for the psychiatrically disabled, the financial burden of my care on my wife would be tremendous.

The last time I used one it missed a bit. I think most of the good shots have been used up. So it might not be as good as you think. :wink:
Click to expand...

Don't ever sell an old Joss shaft, or an old Stroud shaft, especially ivory, 13mm. Some of the best shaft wood that has seen the planet. Hold onto them like grim death.

I may be cremated with all of mine...

Just a comical thought, not a "fooking conspiracy."

All the best,
WW
 
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