CJ's Suggestions

[CJ Wiley]

TOI is most like hitting a draw or "small hook" as you call it

I'm confused here, CJ. When I shoot a cut shot with a (let's say) severe angle to the pocket, I almost always give it a SOI (skosh of inside) just to insure that my cut is made thin enough. I've been doing this for a very long time.
And, as you know, golfers use a cut shot (small slice) and a draw (small hook). :smile:

Yes, TOI is most like hitting a draw or "small hook" as you call it. TOO is more like hitting a fade, or "small slice" if you prefer.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I simply put it together into a format that can be taught to mainstream players

I started played this way in the early 70s, so I guess I'm an anomaly. This style of playing was around long before CJ and WAY longer than AZB. It just wasn't explained as such.

I listen to what people say and if it sounds like it has merit I try it out. If it doesn't work, I don't come here badmouthing, I try to find something else that does work.

I don't promote something that hasn't worked for ME, but not everything works for everybody.

Wade Crane told me that Luther Lassiter played the same "TOI Style" as I do. Of course there was no 'Touch of Inside" system being taught back then.

I simply put it together into a format that can be taught to mainstream players. Now thousands are enjoying and benefiting from the "TOI Training" - all it takes is 3 hours of concentrated practice to see if it works for you or not. 'the TOI is the teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

DEADLY ACCURATE and expands the Pocket Zone by an impressive margin.

In all fairness, when discussing things that are "outside the norm" it usually takes a variety or combination of explanations before it's truly understood. I take it for granted since, in person I have a mental list of 3 themes of explanations, and a few variations of specific details that are proven (in my experience) to get someone in the "understanding mode" quickly.

With that being said, allow me to answer your questions.

I have heard other players compare my grip to the "V Grip", I know Mr. Brett, but don't know what he teaches. If there are similarities in my grip and the movement I suggest with the wrist/fingers I wouldn't be surprised, and like all my techniques they are what I personally use and have found to be the most effective.

I know my grip has been questioned and talked about, and I did go over it in my original 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' using a sword, however I resisted going into great detail.

Concerning firmness: I practice on both ends of the spectrum in this respect. I will squeeze the cue, cock it and play with a firm grip and sometimes I only use two fingers (using thumb/first two fingers) with a very light grip pressure if I'm working on Touch/Finesse/Feel shots.

I play with a firm, controlled pressure, that gives {ME} the ideal balance between power and touch. I use the same pressure when playing golf or tennis as well and played all three games at the same time for several years when in my early teenage years (although I played golf left handed).

I cock my wrist on all shots, and just less on finesse or slow rolled shots. However, my main objective, in Buddy Hall fashion is to hit most shots the same speed and as in my example cock up to eye level from my hip. Then I take my practice stokes BEFORE I get down on the shot, not after.

My main objective is to cock my wrist/fingers in such a way to create a track/slot that makes it virtually impossible to not hit the cue ball straight.

Yes, the stroke (for me) is a pushing motion that accelerates the tip to the cue ball. When players on here talk about pulling the cue they lose me because I can't relate to that at all. Notice I don't tell them they are full of "BS", "crazy", "trying to con people" "say they are talking nonsense", I JUST simply am "quietly confused" and can't relate to why they play in that way.

The TOUCH of Inside technique I have explained in many ways. First off, I do not try to spin the cue ball, I just "cue it" to the inside. This creates a situation that slightly over-cuts the object ball. When combined with this "Wrist/Finger Stroke" it is DEADLY ACCURATE and expands the Pocket Zone by an impressive margin. Someone that aims at the center of the pocket and uses center ball can't win with the 5/7 playing 9 Ball.

I'm not boasting, just stating a fact, when you learn to use the 3 Part Pocket System and look at the pocket as a Zone (and learn to pre set your hand so you hit the cue ball straight every time), the Game changes and becomes possible to play without error for hours at a time. This requires getting "into the zone," and we'll discuss that later.

'the GAME is the teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

Stan showed me the system in Tunica Mississippi and I made every shot

So your stance is CTE doesn't work as Stan said. Any proof of that?
Seems lots of people are using it with success, as Stan prescribes it.

Of course CTE works - Stan showed me the system in Tunica Mississippi and I made every shot he set up. It's similar to another system that I've used, although it has it's own distinct characteristics.

 

[CJ Wiley]

My aiming system was shown in my video 'Ultimate Pool Secrets'

Actually, I think CJ first presented TOI as a way to "aim with squirt" using parts of the pocket. It became a "playing system" later in its evolution (maybe to escape being pigeonholed as another aiming system).

pj
chgo

TOI is not an "aiming system," I used this playing system to become the #1 money player in the world (tied with Efren Reyes and Earl Strickland). My aiming system was shown in my video 'Ultimate Pool Secrets' and it's well documented to be my only "aiming system".

 

[duckie]

Ever get tired talking about yourself? Do you have so little a self esteem that you have to continually talk your self up to feel good about yourself?

The pool world does not rotate around you like you want to believe. The bullshit put forth by you is endless.

Why do you feel such a need to push your style of play non stop?

Nothing you state is based in fact. You do not have the first clue about margin of error, how to use spin.

I don't care how well you played or play. That has nothing to with the level of bullshit about making balls you put forth.

Getting and keeping respect has nothing to with playing pool but about a person character, their nature.....not bullshit.

 

[Dan White]

On the first rack he made the 14 on the break (1st ball in). Throughout the first rack he moved balls out of the designated 1-hole pocket to make room for more (same hole as the 14 was made in on the break, which was on the BOTTOM). When he started to gather the balls for the second rack, ALL the balls were in that pocket including the last few made in the designated 1-hole............and the 14 was now on top.

Actually that's not quite correct. He made the 14 in the left corner pocket the first time. Coincidentally he had the 14 on the corner of the rack for the second break shot, and it went in the bottom corner on the second break.

Also, CJ puts the cue ball frozen to the rail and moves a piece of chalk next to the cue ball. Then he leaves the frame briefly and then reenters. One could argue that this would allow him to set up the shot again without anybody noticing. Only problem is that it would be next to possible to reorient all the balls in the rack the exact same way if doing a retake was the objective. I suppose this was all hashed out long ago, so I'll leave it at that.

Of course the bad acting was the real give away (sorry CJ, no movie roles in your future). :grin:

 

[DTL]

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[DTL]

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[MahnaMahna]

Ever get tired talking about yourself? Do you have so little a self esteem that you have to continually talk your self up to feel good about yourself?

The pool world does not rotate around you like you want to believe. The bullshit put forth by you is endless.

Why do you feel such a need to push your style of play non stop?

Nothing you state is based in fact. You do not have the first clue about margin of error, how to use spin.

I don't care how well you played or play. That has nothing to with the level of bullshit about making balls you put forth.

Getting and keeping respect has nothing to with playing pool but about a person character, their nature.....not bullshit.

Says the guy who has created numerous threads and posts pushing Cranfield's aiming arrow and pushing your style of play nonstop.

Stop talking about respect when you critisize the same behavior you exhibit.

Hypocrite.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Once a hustler, always a hustler.

WOW, thanks for pointing this out.
Glad I ask the question.
You are absolutely correct!!!!!!!!!!!

This makes CJ look like a circus clown or poor video magician.
I guess this puts new meaning to the old joke about how can you tell when a sales person is lying

 

[CJ Wiley]

Bad acting and all, this doesn't change the fact that the two racks were run

Actually that's not quite correct. He made the 14 in the left corner pocket the first time. Coincidentally he had the 14 on the corner of the rack for the second break shot, and it went in the bottom corner on the second break.

Also, CJ puts the cue ball frozen to the rail and moves a piece of chalk next to the cue ball. Then he leaves the frame briefly and then reenters. One could argue that this would allow him to set up the shot again without anybody noticing. Only problem is that it would be next to possible to reorient all the balls in the rack the exact same way if doing a retake was the objective. I suppose this was all hashed out long ago, so I'll leave it at that.

Of course the bad acting was the real give away (sorry CJ, no movie roles in your future). :grin:

The two racks were made in succession. We only planned to do the one, however, I forgot to spot the ball, so I only made 14. After that rack we took down the cam lighting and I practiced for 5-10 minutes.

Then, Mary called me in and said I had forgot to spot the ball, so we put the lighting back up, and staged the intro to tell people what happened. Bad acting and all, this doesn't change the fact that the two racks were run in succession, one after another.

What no one is taking into account is we were never going to use the first rack. We did the intro halfheartedly because we were never going to show it publically. Until the next rack was done on the first try it was not even considered. After the next rack was run, we had 29 balls in a row on film and put it on You Tube....again, it was never planned.

I did make 29 balls in a row and will bet my life on it. Running two racks of one pocket isn't that huge of a feat for me - the ironic part aside, it was not intentional, if I had spotted the ball the rack previous, there would have been no reason to even attempt another one.

These are the facts, anyone is free to believe whatever they choose, it won't matter.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I recommend the book 'Zen in the Art of Archery' to anyone wanting to learn

"Systems underlie every phenomenon, and are everywhere one looks for them. They are limited only by the observer’s capacity to comprehend the complexity of the observed entity, item or phenomenon."

This is a useful definition of a system because it does exist "everywhere one looks for them". If you're unable to look for anything new I would venture to guess you'll find nothing new.

After playing a lot of my best matches subconsciously (in The Zone) it is challenging to explain some of the shots I was able to pull off. I can't even try to explain some of the phenomenal things I've seen (from many players) in the midst of a 20 hour session, they seem "supernatural".

If someone's really struggling to improve and they don't believe in developing a better system, then they may unconsciously not want to improve. The mind can pretty much achieve what you can conceive so make sure you at least "think" you're improving every day. Sometimes we just have to "fake it, til we make it," and see ourselves as a better player, in a better job, or in a better relationship before it actually happens.

I recommend the book 'Zen in the Art of Archery' to anyone wanting to learn more about learning to "play in the zone," (it's the first book I read on the subject and it's superb). imo

 

[Ron Swanson]

Says the guy who has created numerous threads and posts pushing Cranfield's aiming arrow and pushing your style of play nonstop.

Stop talking about respect when you critisize the same behavior you exhibit.

Hypocrite.

What's he selling?

 

[CJ Wiley]

"less is more" in pocket billiards

TOI works for all games in the same manner. What you will find is using TOI is a different game entirely. This sounds like a "general" answer is coming, however, I can go into as much detail as necessary. The most important factor is you don't have to make near as many choices.

Even in one pocket there is usually just one choice, sometimes two, depending on ball count, and "risk reward" considerations. When you spin the cue ball you have a wide range of things you can do, therefore a wide range of choices you have to make.

Many players think having lots of choices is a good thing, I recommend they reconsider this because "less is more" in pocket billiards.

TOI is better to use in eight-ball in most shots, however, you have to look for the shot. This isn't something that happens over night, so be patience, but at the same time you have to know the shot is always there.

If I was there I could show you the shot every time, so you can believe, the challenge is to stay with it and commit to mastering your TOI shot, like I suggest in the video.

Spin is ONLY necessary when you're changing an angle off the cushion or curving the cue ball. Very rarely is there an exception and if you have any specific examples I'll be happy to show you this is accurate and true.

 

[HawaiianEye]

you have to look for the shot. This isn't something that happens over night, so be patience, but at the same time you have to know the shot is always there.

If I was there I could show you the shot every time, so you can believe, the challenge is to stay with it and commit to mastering your TOI shot, like I suggest in the video.

Spin is ONLY necessary when you're changing an angle off the cushion or curving the cue ball. Very rarely is there an exception and if you have any specific examples I'll be happy to show you this is accurate and true.

CJ,

That is absolutely correct. People don't believe me when I say I hit "inside" on almost every shot. The ONLY time I hit outside is to change the angle because the shot won't work with inside. Then I'm trying to get back into MY line for inside shots.

I think the reason that people can't comprehend is because they play their patterns without seeing the "inside" natural lines. I play my patterns and position to keep the "inside angle" on shots. I call it coming toward the middle, or inside, of the table.

One consolation is that it is FINALLY sinking in for my playing partner. He keeps coming up with some BS how it won't work, but I notice EVERY week that he is using more and more TOI.

He won't admit it, but he is. He isn't committed yet though...he will hit two or three good TOI shots and then do a spin he didn't need to do and gets back into trouble.

Aloha

 

[CJ Wiley]

TOI makes the object ball over-cut slightly, so you can favor the inside

CJ,

That is absolutely correct. People don't believe me when I say I hit "inside" on almost every shot. The ONLY time I hit outside is to change the angle because the shot won't work with inside. Then I'm trying to get back into MY line for inside shots.

I think the reason that people can't comprehend is because they play their patterns without seeing the "inside" natural lines. I play my patterns and position to keep the "inside angle" on shots. I call it coming toward the middle, or inside, of the table.

One consolation is that it is FINALLY sinking in for my playing partner. He keeps coming up with some BS how it won't work, but I notice EVERY week that he is using more and more TOI.

He won't admit it, but he is. He isn't committed yet though...he will hit two or three good TOI shots and then do a spin he didn't need to do and gets back into trouble.

Aloha

This is correct, we are seeing the cue ball's path from the "inside out," not the "outside in". I couldn't see it the other way, the TOI makes the object ball over-cut slightly, so you can favor the inside of the pocket.

Player's do the same type thing using TOO, however, you have to spin the ball more to achieve this......this isn't very prudent when it's humid in states like Hawaii, and Florida. Worn cloth also plays a factor in this scenario of using TOI as the player's primary shot (or TOO).

Golf is similar, the professionals swing from the inside out, although it's natural to swing from the outside in. These two examples simply prove that the natural way that we look at games is often NOT the ideal way to play.

Beginners possibly need to hit "center ball" - until a player's stroke is more accurate and precise, it's probably best to not experiment with TOI, or TOO.

'the GAME is the teacher'

 

[Poolmanis]

"Systems underlie every phenomenon, and are everywhere one looks for them. They are limited only by the observer’s capacity to comprehend the complexity of the observed entity, item or phenomenon."

This is a useful definition of a system because it does exist "everywhere one looks for them". If you're unable to look for anything new I would venture to guess you'll find nothing new.

After playing a lot of my best matches subconsciously (in The Zone) it is challenging to explain some of the shots I was able to pull off. I can't even try to explain some of the phenomenal things I've seen (from many players) in the midst of a 20 hour session, they seem "supernatural".

If someone's really struggling to improve and they don't believe in developing a better system, then they may unconsciously not want to improve. The mind can pretty much achieve what you can conceive so make sure you at least "think" you're improving every day. Sometimes we just have to "fake it, til we make it," and see ourselves as a better player, in a better job, or in a better relationship before it actually happens.

I recommend the book 'Zen in the Art of Archery' to anyone wanting to learn more about learning to "play in the zone," (it's the first book I read on the subject and it's superb). imo

Dunno if you mean same book that I've read also because it was translated to Finnish from German. Writer were Eugen Herregiel or something like that. One of best book ever written to describe difficult subject.

 

[CJ Wiley]

This book can be applied to pool or anything one wants to master mentally.

Dunno if you mean same book that I've read also because it was translated to Finnish from German. Writer were Eugen Herregiel or something like that. One of best book ever written to describe difficult subject.

Yes, that's the exact one, and I agree, it can be applied to pool or anything one wants to master mentally......I've read it 7 times beginning when I was 18 and the 7th time last year.

Here's a link for anyone that's interested in learning more about this incredible book.

Herrigel (1884–1955) was a German professor of philosophy, with a special interest in mysticism. From 1924 to 1929 he taught philosophy in Japan, and studied Kyūdō (the art of the Japanese bow) under a master named Awa Kenzô. Awa taught kyūdō in a way that was regarded by some as a mystical religion, called Daishadokyo. Daishadokyo was an approach to kyūdō that placed great emphasis on the spiritual aspect and differed from much of the mainstream practice at the time.[1] In 1936, Herrigel wrote a 20-page essay about his experiences, and then in 1948 expanded the essay into a short book. The book was translated into English in 1953 and Japanese in 1955.

Book[edit]
The book sets forth theories about motor learning and control that provide lessons for learning any sport or physical activity. For example, a central idea in the book is that through years of practice, a physical activity becomes effortless both mentally and physically, as if the body executes complex and difficult movements without conscious control from the mind.

Herrigel describes Zen in archery as follows:

"(...) The archer ceases to be conscious of himself as the one who is engaged in hitting the bull's-eye which confronts him. This state of unconscious is realized only when, completely empty and rid of the self, he becomes one with the perfecting of his technical skill, though there is in it something of a quite different order which cannot be attained by any progressive study of the art (...)"

 

[GoldenFlash]

"Systems underlie every phenomenon, and are everywhere one looks for them. They are limited only by the observer’s capacity to comprehend the complexity of the observed entity, item or phenomenon."
This is a useful definition of a system because it does exist "everywhere one looks for them". If you're unable to look for anything new I would venture to guess you'll find nothing new.
After playing a lot of my best matches subconsciously (in The Zone) it is challenging to explain some of the shots I was able to pull off. I can't even try to explain some of the phenomenal things I've seen (from many players) in the midst of a 20 hour session, they seem "supernatural".
If someone's really struggling to improve and they don't believe in developing a better system, then they may unconsciously not want to improve. The mind can pretty much achieve what you can conceive so make sure you at least "think" you're improving every day. Sometimes we just have to "fake it, til we make it," and see ourselves as a better player, in a better job, or in a better relationship before it actually happens.
I recommend the book 'Zen in the Art of Archery' to anyone wanting to learn more about learning to "play in the zone," (it's the first book I read on the subject and it's superb). imo

I can remember only once in my entire life that I KNOW I was in "the zone". I only wish I could do it at will....remarkable things can happen.
Here's the tale..
I'm in a money 8-ball tournament 20 years ago. I claw and struggle and get lucky and finally make it to the finals against one of the best players in the southeast.
I was scared to death of him but suddenly I felt very strange and detached...very odd for someone like me. I was not talking to myself or imagining anything..I went to the table as if I was just "supposed to win".
I played the entire match, never said a word, never heard a word or any applause. The balls went in like they had eyes, the breaks were thunderous, it all seemed soooo easy.
At the end of the match when I shot in the winning money ball , the applause from the crowd was unreal...it shocked me back into reality. Then I realized I had won the match...people coming out of the stands, my son and his wife hugging me.
I swear...I do not remember a thing about that match and how it was played. I got the scoresheet and I had beaten the other guy 7-2.
I have never had that feeling of euphoria and detachment from reality again.