Conditions to participate in the upcoming U.S. Open

yes, ralf was a runner-up in 2006, gomez was a runner-up in 2007. and gomez was visibly under pressure from the very engaged crowd.

ralf probably was too. the occasion was magnified by the crowd. i think however that ralf would have won were it not for MR allowing the soft breaks. alcano took advantage of the situation and won because of it.
The bird break was the year that Daryl Peach won. EVERYBODY was breaking like that. It was unbelievable! I think Corey is the one that invented the bird break.

Interestingly, if you to go to one of those carnival gaff tables, use a bird break. The balls blossom out like a flower and give an easy run-out. ;)
 
It doesn’t matter what my preference is.

What I’m saying is that the MC is a one-off and you cannot re-make all pool in its likeness. American pool fans are not wired that way. For that matter, you couldn’t even make snooker events into the MC.

The MC plays off the fan reactions of the two continents. Without that, you don’t have that.

Lou Figueroa

We'll have to agree to disagree. Having a vocal audience excited about the competition on TV is what pool needs. When they're shooting, just like at Mosconi Cup and snooker, the audience is quiet, but between shots and games, let the audience have fun. It sells tickets, attracts new blood as far as advertising, and it's a win-win. Pool gets more money to make the purses heavier, just like Barry Hearn did for snooker, darts, boxing, fishing, and bowling.

I'm not sure what American pool fans you hang out with, but the ones I know love the kind of energy the Mosconi Cup puts out.
 
Animated fans would add another variable to our armchair QB ability to clock players. Some players would thrive on it. Some might play worse due to it. Just another talking point:)
 
We'll have to agree to disagree. Having a vocal audience excited about the competition on TV is what pool needs. When they're shooting, just like at Mosconi Cup and snooker, the audience is quiet, but between shots and games, let the audience have fun. It sells tickets, attracts new blood as far as advertising, and it's a win-win. Pool gets more money to make the purses heavier, just like Barry Hearn did for snooker, darts, boxing, fishing, and bowling.

I'm not sure what American pool fans you hang out with, but the ones I know love the kind of energy the Mosconi Cup puts out.
Agree. Wanna TOTALLY kill the game? Televise/stream two people playing 1p or 14.1 Great games for sure but of interest to a very few viewers. To have ANY chance with JoeSportsFan the game has to be fast and easy to follow.
 
Agree. Wanna TOTALLY kill the game? Televise/stream two people playing 1p or 14.1 Great games for sure but of interest to a very few viewers. To have ANY chance with JoeSportsFan the game has to be fast and easy to follow.
IDK about that. American Football has a million rules. One thing the announcers do is explain them, which I think make the telecasts more interesting.

For one pocket, if we had Filler vs Cohen every week, that would be more exciting than mosconi cup 9 ball, IMO:)
 
[...]

What I’m saying is that the MC is a one-off and you cannot re-make all pool in its likeness. American pool fans are not wired that way. For that matter, you couldn’t even make snooker events into the MC.

The MC plays off the fan reactions of the two continents. Without that, you don’t have that.

Lou Figueroa

Let's say we agree the MC is a one-off that has a circus-like atmosphere that is fun for what it is but doesn't really add insight about the best format for engaging (viewable and otherwise conducive to following along) professional pool.

Some imagine a reasonable goal is to convert some unknown mass of people from channel-switchers who know nothing about pool and ignore it to fans who get into it. That, imo, is a fantasy. And the more time and energy and resources we spend talking about and trying to achieve it, the more ground is lost on the more reasonable goal.

What is the more reasonable goal? Well, FargoRate's goal is ;-)

Pool is basically a participation sport. Its health--call it its stock--depends on how many people participate and also how engaged they are in Pool with a capital P. That engagement includes everything that distinguishes playing pool from just another way to enjoy yourself or pass time.
Examples of engagement:
--playing in public competitions, leagues and tournaments
--buying or at least being interested in equipment
--having goals and wanting to improve
--taking steps to learn or practice or generally do things you think will lead to improvement
--knowing who are the best players in your area and how you compare to them
--watching others play
--knowing who are the best players in your province, country, world
--knowing things about those top players and what distinguishes them both at and away from the pool table.
--feeling connected to pool players like you who are outside of your playing community.

Efforts that advance ANY of these dimensions support the goal. And instead of thinking about converting some group of blank-slate people into "pool people" who rank high on these things, we should instead focus on incremental changes, LOTS of them

Imagine everybody in your community of 1000 people is on a scale from 0 to 10. Everybody who had SOME association with pool, however small, in the last month has a non-zero number. The rest are 0's.

----A "1"played a game in a bar because the dart board was busy, and he didn't notice there was no chalk. Or watched a game somewhere for a few minutes

----A "10" buys the latest stuff, watches streams every day, plays a lot, travels to get the best instruction, keeps a pool log, knows how all the pros spend their free time, and reads posts like this on AZ Billiards.

Everybody else is somewhere in between.

Our task is this:
Convert 0's to 1's
Convert 1's to 2's
Convert 2's to 3's
...
Convert 9's to 10's.

When people move up on this scale, they tend to bring others around them along for the ride.

Match formats that increase engagement just a little can do a lot toward this goal. Dramatic situations that actually pit the skill of one player against that of the other do that. When you as a spectator sense that you can almost feel the pressure the player is experiencing, that does it as well.

It will be pretty cool to be in Vegas in a couple weeks, where about half the world's top 100 players will playing in the midst of and mingling with 5 or 6 thousand amateur players. That's the second event of the new US Pro Billiard Series. Maybe I will hang out at the bar in the Rio recording conversations about the shootouts ;-)
 
It doesn’t matter what my preference is.

What I’m saying is that the MC is a one-off and you cannot re-make all pool in its likeness. American pool fans are not wired that way. For that matter, you couldn’t even make snooker events into the MC.

The MC plays off the fan reactions of the two continents. Without that, you don’t have that.

Lou Figueroa
The only thing I’ll add here is the snooker shoot out has a similar atmosphere, but just like the MC it is a one off.

I think part of the excitement also comes from the fact that the event is unique on the calendar. It would be hard to maintain fan excitement of that nature for something like the champions league.

I would just settle for fans being more invested in who wins tournaments. What I love about the pro snooker events is the enthusiastic “YES!!!” from the crowd when players pot a crucial ball. In pool you can do a masse/carom/bank to win the match and all youd get is a polite clap most of the time. And as much as people in snooker complain about fans shouting “C’mon Ronnie”, it adds something to the atmosphere.
 
The only thing I’ll add here is the snooker shoot out has a similar atmosphere, but just like the MC it is a one off.


I think part of the excitement also comes from the fact that the event is unique on the calendar. It would be hard to maintain fan excitement of that nature for something like the champions league.

I would just settle for fans being more invested in who wins tournaments. What I love about the pro snooker events is the enthusiastic “YES!!!” from the crowd when players pot a crucial ball. In pool you can do a masse/carom/bank to win the match and all youd get is a polite clap most of the time. And as much as people in snooker complain about fans shouting “C’mon Ronnie”, it adds something to the atmosphere.

That's if the pool fans are awake. :)

I can't stand watching streams where the front row is asleep and the other rows are on their phones 😴😴😴

Give me Earl, McCready, Hatch, Shaw, Filler, etc and get the crowd wound up.

I wanna see Earl throw his cue at a heckler, Hatch box somebody, and Shaw and Filler fighting eachother 🤣 guarantee ESPN would be playing that for days.

if basketball players can fight fans why can't our players JK not really
 
IDK about that. American Football has a million rules. One thing the announcers do is explain them, which I think make the telecasts more interesting.

For one pocket, if we had Filler vs Cohen every week, that would be more exciting than mosconi cup 9 ball, IMO:)
American football also moves faster. Running, hitting, passing, scrambling, blitzing. One pocket is like watching two earthworms cross a patio.
 
... Pool is basically a participation sport. Its health--call it its stock--depends on how many people participate and also how engaged they are in Pool with a capital P. ...
It's interesting that Barry Hearn seems to feel that Matchroom's success in the pool world doesn't depend on building pool as a participation sport. He spoke of this in his interview in the current issue of Billiards Digest. It's pool as entertainment that he will be promoting, with a "Mosconi atmosphere."

There are certainly plenty of sports that draw huge audiences of people who do not currently, and perhaps never did, play the sport. Whether pool can become one of those, I don't know.

[And as for those shootouts to decide 10-Ball matches -- boo.]
 
We'll have to agree to disagree. Having a vocal audience excited about the competition on TV is what pool needs. When they're shooting, just like at Mosconi Cup and snooker, the audience is quiet, but between shots and games, let the audience have fun. It sells tickets, attracts new blood as far as advertising, and it's a win-win. Pool gets more money to make the purses heavier, just like Barry Hearn did for snooker, darts, boxing, fishing, and bowling.

I'm not sure what American pool fans you hang out with, but the ones I know love the kind of energy the Mosconi Cup puts out.

Once again, you appear to be missing my point.

If you think the MC is more fun, swell. But I don’t believe that kind of atmosphere will take hold with US audiences at pool events regardless of what might be more fun for you to watch on TV. Without a European counterpart to cheer against I feel it’s unlikely to happen.

Lou Figueroa
 
Let's say we agree the MC is a one-off that has a circus-like atmosphere that is fun for what it is but doesn't really add insight about the best format for engaging (viewable and otherwise conducive to following along) professional pool.

Some imagine a reasonable goal is to convert some unknown mass of people from channel-switchers who know nothing about pool and ignore it to fans who get into it. That, imo, is a fantasy. And the more time and energy and resources we spend talking about and trying to achieve it, the more ground is lost on the more reasonable goal.

What is the more reasonable goal? Well, FargoRate's goal is ;-)

Pool is basically a participation sport. Its health--call it its stock--depends on how many people participate and also how engaged they are in Pool with a capital P. That engagement includes everything that distinguishes playing pool from just another way to enjoy yourself or pass time.
Examples of engagement:
--playing in public competitions, leagues and tournaments
--buying or at least being interested in equipment
--having goals and wanting to improve
--taking steps to learn or practice or generally do things you think will lead to improvement
--knowing who are the best players in your area and how you compare to them
--watching others play
--knowing who are the best players in your province, country, world
--knowing things about those top players and what distinguishes them both at and away from the pool table.
--feeling connected to pool players like you who are outside of your playing community.

Efforts that advance ANY of these dimensions support the goal. And instead of thinking about converting some group of blank-slate people into "pool people" who rank high on these things, we should instead focus on incremental changes, LOTS of them

Imagine everybody in your community of 1000 people is on a scale from 0 to 10. Everybody who had SOME association with pool, however small, in the last month has a non-zero number. The rest are 0's.

----A "1"played a game in a bar because the dart board was busy, and he didn't notice there was no chalk. Or watched a game somewhere for a few minutes

----A "10" buys the latest stuff, watches streams every day, plays a lot, travels to get the best instruction, keeps a pool log, knows how all the pros spend their free time, and reads posts like this on AZ Billiards.

Everybody else is somewhere in between.

Our task is this:
Convert 0's to 1's
Convert 1's to 2's
Convert 2's to 3's
...
Convert 9's to 10's.

When people move up on this scale, they tend to bring others around them along for the ride.

Match formats that increase engagement just a little can do a lot toward this goal. Dramatic situations that actually pit the skill of one player against that of the other do that. When you as a spectator sense that you can almost feel the pressure the player is experiencing, that does it as well.

It will be pretty cool to be in Vegas in a couple weeks, where about half the world's top 100 players will playing in the midst of and mingling with 5 or 6 thousand amateur players. That's the second event of the new US Pro Billiard Series. Maybe I will hang out at the bar in the Rio recording conversations about the shootouts ;-)

Having attended several amateur/pro events what I’ve seen is that they do not co-mingle.

It’s like two ships in the night.

Lou Figueroa
 
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Once again, you appear to be missing my point.

If you think the MC is more fun, swell. But I don’t believe that kind of atmosphere will take hold with US audiences at pool events regardless of what might be more fun for you to watch on TV. Without a European counterpart to cheer against I feel it’s unlikely to happen.

Lou Figueroa
Gee, instead, maybe, just maybe, when mainstream American knows whjo the players are, they'll root for their favorite player, kind of like golf. What a novel thought!

You don't see teams playing golf. They're individual players in one big competition.

You're like a pitbull with a bone when it comes to your opinion. Allow others to have theirs. Just because your opinion is your opinion, it doesn't make it right to others. The majority, of course, agree with mine. Have fun in the minority and watch robotic tournament soldiers playing mum pool while the rest of us try to enjoy pool and pray it becomes a sport and not some weekly league game for social shooters.
 
Gee, instead, maybe, just maybe, when mainstream American knows whjo the players are, they'll root for their favorite player, kind of like golf. What a novel thought!

You don't see teams playing golf. They're individual players in one big competition.

You're like a pitbull with a bone when it comes to your opinion. Allow others to have theirs. Just because your opinion is your opinion, it doesn't make it right to others. The majority, of course, agree with mine. Have fun in the minority and watch robotic tournament soldiers playing mum pool while the rest of us try to enjoy pool and pray it becomes a sport and not some weekly league game for social shooters.

er, when did I say or even imply others could not have their own opinion?

I've always said: different takes make the world go round. And of course... I'm not here like I'm in some high school popularity contest, crowing about "the majority" agreeing with me, lol. So my point remains: without the Europeans to play off of, it's unlikely American audiences are going to behave like Manchester United fans when attending pool tournaments.

Lou Figueroa
 
Gee, instead, maybe, just maybe, when mainstream American knows whjo the players are, they'll root for their favorite player, kind of like golf. What a novel thought!

You don't see teams playing golf. They're individual players in one big competition.

You're like a pitbull with a bone when it comes to your opinion. Allow others to have theirs. Just because your opinion is your opinion, it doesn't make it right to others. The majority, of course, agree with mine. Have fun in the minority and watch robotic tournament soldiers playing mum pool while the rest of us try to enjoy pool and pray it becomes a sport and not some weekly league game for social shooters.
Ryder cup since 1927!
 
Agree. Wanna TOTALLY kill the game? Televise/stream two people playing 1p or 14.1 Great games for sure but of interest to a very few viewers. To have ANY chance with JoeSportsFan the game has to be fast and easy to follow.
Sigel’s 150 and out vs Zuglan was ~40 minutes it I recall, and was totally captivating. 1 pocket can be beautiful too.
 
er, when did I say or even imply others could not have their own opinion?

I've always said: different takes make the world go round. And of course... I'm not here like I'm in some high school popularity contest, crowing about "the majority" agreeing with me, lol. So my point remains: without the Europeans to play off of, it's unlikely American audiences are going to behave like Manchester United fans when attending pool tournaments.

Lou Figueroa
Crows are also consistent. :) And I mean that in a good way!
 
Some of us like to watch all the Sit-Coms on TV and others like the Reality series more. Different strokes for different folks. I've seen packed houses on the edge of their seats for a great 9-Ball match and the same thing for One Pocket and Straight Pool. Very similar to golf, they are silent when a player is shooting and show their approval after a good shot. The MC seems to be a different animal, especially when it's held in the UK. There, the crowd has to be reminded to be respectful when a player is shooting and not yell out during their back swing. Less of that when it's played here. Then there's the beer, gallons of it being consumed on that side of the pond, with the expected results. Between matches the crowd around the beer stalls is three deep and no one walks away with a single beer! God bless the Brits! They love to see the Yanks tossed on their ears.
 
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