Congratulations Shane-world pool masters champ

The pinoys who you see here are the ones who manage to get a visa.

The Taiwanese players have a real tour to play at home, and there isn't a big enough draw for most of them to come here. Sad but true.

that is true. gambling in taipei is big - probably why there's no need to go the US which is half way across the globe. when Manny Pacquiao held his last singles/doubles tournament, giving $40K to the winner, 8 or 9 of the best from TPE hopped on the 2-hour flight and came 3 days before the event even started. other than that event, they dont come to PH at all.

regarding visas, that is also true. jeffrey de luna and johann chua for example, got denied, so they were not able to participate in this year's US Open.
 
that is true. gambling in taipei is big - probably why there's no need to go the US which is half way across the globe. when Manny Pacquiao held his last singles/doubles tournament, giving $40K to the winner, 8 or 9 of the best from TPE hopped on the 2-hour flight and came 3 days before the event even started. other than that event, they dont come to PH at all.

regarding visas, that is also true. jeffrey de luna and johann chua for example, got denied, so they were not able to participate in this year's US Open.

I remember the big money games between Yang and Busty, two of the best money players in Asia at the time butting heads repeatedly.

Taiwan also has a pretty high standard of living, so the other reasons beside pool/gambling to visit the US might be moot, at least for the Taiwanese players. They also speak zero English, unlike many of the Pinoys who (depending on where they're from in the PI) can get by with the language.
 
You have a double standard when you post stuff like this ... "i bet all these 64 tournaments were played in the US, hence making Shane the best in the US. that i agree with."

As I have stated in my previous post, I would like to see Shane in Asia. And the competition there is scary. But, I can't watch you post stuff like that ... it denigrates the big tournaments that the U.S. has... which Shane as won.

And P.S. When you post "i bet all these 64 tournaments were played in the US". You don't even acknowledge that he just won his first big event overseas which is what this entire thread was about to begin with.

why? isnt it true? i was just confirming facts. tell me if one of those 64 tournaments were held outside the US. if they aren't, then what's the problem saying "Shane is the best in the US."? also when i mentioned losing to Alex or Bustie or Ko Pin-Yi, please consider that these events were all held in the US. note that my post was a response to corvette saying "nobody in the world that will play him (SVB) much less beat him in a real gambling match." a LOT would want to play Shane for money.

i actually acknowledge Shane for winning the 16-player invitational, WPM. it must be very special since it's his first major international title. but as much as you and I would want to "see Shane in Asia" for a much tougher tournament, i'm afraid that is not gonna happen - he's not participating in this year's All-Japan Open where the top Asians are. guess the MC is his priority - which i understand. American pool needs a boost right now.
 
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why? isnt it true? i was just confirming facts. tell me if one of those 64 tournaments were held outside the US. if they aren't, then what's the problem saying "Shane is the best in the US."? also when i mentioned losing to Alex or Bustie or Ko Pin-Yi, please consider that these events were all held in the US. note that my post was a response to corvette saying "nobody in the world that will play him (SVB) much less beat him in a real gambling match." a LOT would want to play Shane for money.

i actually acknowledge Shane for winning the 16-player invitational, WPM. it must be very special since it's his first major international title. but as much as you and I would want to "see Shane in Asia" for a much tougher tournament, i'm afraid that is not gonna happen - he's not participating in this year's All-Japan Open where the top Asians are. guess the MC is his priority - which i understand. American pool needs a boost right now.
arps, you are not clear here

First this --> "why? isnt it true? i was just confirming facts. tell me if one of those 64 tournaments were held outside the US" .... 1 of those 64 was the WPM that he just won.

Now this -->"but as much as you and I would want to "see Shane in Asia" for a much tougher tournament, i'm afraid that is not gonna happen" ... Isn't Shane entered in the Pacquiao Philippine Open in Dec? You know that very well because of where you are from. That is the biggest money event for the year. Last time I checked the PI is in Southeast Asia .... please don't give me a geography lesson (I lived in Cebu for 3yrs :)).

I am not sure if you were twisting things or that was just unintentional. But, your post wasn't clear.
 
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sure, he will be in PI this December for the MP singles and doubles event. thanks for reminding me - i almost forgot this event. if he wins it, then it's gonna be his second international title. that moment would potentially start his "domination"; and maybe next year he could win his first world championship title. i wish all the best for him. :)

PS ive been to a lot of places in the Visayas but have never been to Cebu. hope to visit that city in the future.
 
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Bullshit. He competes against the best all the time. If the Euro tour and the Asian tourneys are so great, why do so many players come to the US and move to the US to compete for as long as they can? So they can get worse from playing worse competition? Because the World Champions that have moved here to compete aren't good enough to win overseas???

What is it? Why do the best players move to the US instead of these places where they can get so much better from the better competition?

Jaden


The winner bell rings on this one. Great point.

Germany and Finland are staring to get higher ratings over the United States in quality of life, personal freedoms lists.
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/germany/
so saying they are moving here to get a better life is a joke.

Thorsten, mika, Appleton, Shaw, Alison Fisher, Karen corr. All champions of pool who moved here to compete against the best.
Furthermore, I'll put the quality of competition on the joss northeast tour up against any euro tour, so for the Wpa to give points for the euro tour but nothing for joss is a joke. I understand the points aren't huge in the vast scheme of things but just because there aren't WPA points for a joss tour shows me that their precious term "world champion" still only favours one part of the world.
 
The winner bell rings on this one. Great point.

Germany and Finland are staring to get higher ratings over the United States in quality of life, personal freedoms lists.
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/germany/
so saying they are moving here to get a better life is a joke.

Thorsten, mika, Appleton, Shaw, Alison Fisher, Karen corr. All champions of pool who moved here to compete against the best.
Furthermore, I'll put the quality of competition on the joss northeast tour up against any euro tour, so for the Wpa to give points for the euro tour but nothing for joss is a joke. I understand the points aren't huge in the vast scheme of things but just because there aren't WPA points for a joss tour shows me that their precious term "world champion" still only favours one part of the world.

This is a joke. They come here because there's money to be made, and because they already speak English, and the US is much more similar to Europe culturally than Taiwan or the Philippines. If they were seeking the best competition, they'd move to Taiwan.

The quality of pool in the US isn't the best in the world. Not even close. Of the "big four" regions: Taiwan, Philippines, Europe, and US, the US is the weakest. At this point, Shane is really the only world-class player here.

Joss Tour versus Euro Tour? Are you kidding? The top ranked guys on the Joss Tour are Ron Casanzio and Jeremy Sossei. The top guys on the Euro tour are Nick van den Berg and Mark Gray. Ralf, Niels, Nikos, etc. Any of those guys would dominate the Joss Tour.
 
This is a joke. They come here because there's money to be made, and because they already speak English, and the US is much more similar to Europe culturally than Taiwan or the Philippines. If they were seeking the best competition, they'd move to Taiwan.

The quality of pool in the US isn't the best in the world. Not even close. Of the "big four" regions: Taiwan, Philippines, Europe, and US, the US is the weakest. At this point, Shane is really the only world-class player here.

Joss Tour versus Euro Tour? Are you kidding? The top ranked guys on the Joss Tour are Ron Casanzio and Jeremy Sossei. The top guys on the Euro tour are Nick van den Berg and Mark Gray. Ralf, Niels, Nikos, etc. Any of those guys would dominate the Joss Tour.
I have no argument about Asia. But have to disagree about the States and Europe ... have a look at this interview by Darren Appleton and why he moved to the US. http://www.pro9.co.uk/html/print.php?sid=1824. He thinks the level of play is higher.
 
Joss Tour versus Euro Tour? Are you kidding? The top ranked guys on the Joss Tour are Ron Casanzio and Jeremy Sossei. The top guys on the Euro tour are Nick van den Berg and Mark Gray. Ralf, Niels, Nikos, etc. Any of those guys would dominate the Joss Tour.

Actually, the top players on the Joss Tour in recent years are Mike Dechaine and Jayson Shaw. After that, it's Sossei, Srickland and D'Alfonso. A month ago, all five cashed in the US Open.

Mark Gray didn't manage to cash in the US Open.

Vandenberg came to the Derby City 9-ball, finishing 46th and losing to Sossei along the way. He came to the US Open and finished 17th.

Albin Ouschan, silver medalist at the WPA World 9-ball Championships and WPA World #6 when he arrived in Virginia, did not cash, losing to two Joss tour players, Dechaine and Sossei.

Yeah, the Joss Tour guys sure are struggling against the stars of the Eurotour.

Perhaps these Eurotour players are on the stall to protect their action.
 
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Actually, the top players on the Joss Tour in recent years are Mike Dechaine and Jayson Shaw. After that, it's Sossei, Srickland and D'Alfonso. A month ago, all five cashed in the US Open.

Mark Gray didn't manage to cash in the US Open.

Vandenberg came to the Derby City 9-ball, finishing 46th and losing to Sossei along the way. He came to the US Open and finished 17th.

Albin Ouschan, silver medalist at the WPA World 9-ball Championships and WPA World #6 when he arrived in Virginia, did not cash, losing to two Joss tour players, Dechaine and Sossei.

Yeah, the Joss Tour guys sure are struggling against the stars of the Eurotour.

Perhaps these Eurotour players are on the stall to protect their action.

Not according to the Joss Tour website.

Sure, you can hand-pick some tournaments where some guys from the Joss Tour did better than some guys from the Eurotour. So can I. Even with the ones you picked.
Nikos did better than any Joss Tour player at the open, and Ruslan Chinahov did better than any Joss player at DCC. Of the guys you named, only Dechaine made the top 25 at the Open.

And those are US tournaments. At the world, level, the accomplishments of Euro Tour versus Joss Tour players are miles apart, with the exception of Earl a long time ago.

The overall quality and depth of field is not even close.
 
In that same interview...

I have no argument about Asia. But have to disagree about the States and Europe ... have a look at this interview by Darren Appleton and why he moved to the US. http://www.pro9.co.uk/html/print.php?sid=1824. He thinks the level of play is higher.

Here is Darren's opinion on the US Open versus world titles in that same interview..

Darren: "For me, it's the best individual tournament venue in the world. Big crowds, perfect venue, great format, good playing conditions, longer races than what we're used to, and a full field of 256 players. It's the ultimate test in pool... the history of the event makes it even bigger than most world titles, or should I say more prestigious. The TV arena is perfect. I feel so happy out there, like its my venue. The second half of the week is the best time to get involved, as the crowds get bigger each day and you have time to prepare for matches. Unless you lose early and go on the losers' bracket, it's a great tournament. You're not going to win it by luck that's for sure."


Jaden
 
Not according to the Joss Tour website.

Sure, you can hand-pick some tournaments where some guys from the Joss Tour did better than some guys from the Eurotour. So can I. Even with the ones you picked.
Nikos did better than any Joss Tour player at the open, and Ruslan Chinahov did better than any Joss player at DCC. Of the guys you named, only Dechaine made the top 25 at the Open.

And those are US tournaments. At the world, level, the accomplishments of Euro Tour versus Joss Tour players are miles apart, with the exception of Earl a long time ago.
n
The overall quality and depth of field is not even close.

I agree that the Eurotour has the depth, but you knocked the Joss tour, and I reminded you that the stars of the Joss tour have more than held their own against the stars of the obviously superb Eurotour. I didn't randomly select events --- I just took the only two 2014 events in America that had significant participation from Eurotour regulars.

Give the Joss tour guys a little credit. Of course they are not as strong a tour as Eurotour, but they are fine players with solid results.
 
I have no argument about Asia. But have to disagree about the States and Europe ... have a look at this interview by Darren Appleton and why he moved to the US. http://www.pro9.co.uk/html/print.php?sid=1824. He thinks the level of play is higher.

He seems to be saying there is more action and more tournaments and more money. Which I agree with. I don't read that as saying the level of skill is higher. In the UK, the main cue sport is snooker. And also gambling matches aren't as big in Europe.

He's actually a living example of what I'm talking about. Which American plays at Appleton's level except for Shane? Nobody. There's a big gap between Shane and everyone else in the US. Europe has more people at the very top level. Mika, Niels, etc.
 
I agree that the Eurotour has the depth, but you knocked the Joss tour, and I reminded you that the stars of the Joss tour have more than held their own against the stars of the obviously superb Eurotour. I didn't randomly select events --- I just took the only two 2014 events in America that had significant participation from Eurotour regulars.

Give the Joss tour guys a little credit. Of course they are not as strong a tour as Eurotour, but they are fine players with solid results.

Fair enough, I overstated by case. I was responding to someone who said that they would put the Joss Tour up against the Euro Tour any day. Yes, the Joss Tour is strong.
 
He seems to be saying there is more action and more tournaments and more money. Which I agree with. I don't read that as saying the level of skill is higher. In the UK, the main cue sport is snooker. And also gambling matches aren't as big in Europe.

He's actually a living example of what I'm talking about. Which American plays at Appleton's level except for Shane? Nobody. There's a big gap between Shane and everyone else in the US. Europe has more people at the very top level. Mika, Niels, etc.

exactly right, daz did not saya the level of play his higher he said there are more action aand tournament which is there is. remember daz is coming from England not Germany or Holland. snooker is the biggest cue sport in the world and in England its massive pool is still seen kinda of a joke in the UK, jimmy white referred to it as a kids game. Now I disagree with that but im stating why daz moved. only thing he had was the GB9 which was in its infancy at that time. his gf was in the states, and like he said same reason as Thorsten it was also sponsor driven.

as for euro tour v joss tour are you having a Steffi graaff? thats atrocious yes dechaine and shaw would compete but not even close its super deep in the euro tour and has world champions in it. granted I think joss tour, northeast region is the strongest in the US right now good things coming out of that way

I believe the mosconi will spark this debate again. im glad t see gray back on the team although personally don't think he is good enough but he won his qualifying event so he gets a spot, shame that euro have to have restrictions on their team selection in order to make it fair
 
This is a joke. They come here because there's money to be made, and because they already speak English, and the US is much more similar to Europe culturally than Taiwan or the Philippines. If they were seeking the best competition, they'd move to Taiwan.

The quality of pool in the US isn't the best in the world. Not even close. Of the "big four" regions: Taiwan, Philippines, Europe, and US, the US is the weakest. At this point, Shane is really the only world-class player here.

Joss Tour versus Euro Tour? Are you kidding? The top ranked guys on the Joss Tour are Ron Casanzio and Jeremy Sossei. The top guys on the Euro tour are Nick van den Berg and Mark Gray. Ralf, Niels, Nikos, etc. Any of those guys would dominate the Joss Tour.

You seem to forget Mike dechaine, Jayson Shaw, earl strickland are on joss tour as well. And if there were WPA points involved, think of how many more would be on the tour.
 
He seems to be saying there is more action and more tournaments and more money. Which I agree with. I don't read that as saying the level of skill is higher. In the UK, the main cue sport is snooker. And also gambling matches aren't as big in Europe.

He's actually a living example of what I'm talking about. Which American plays at Appleton's level except for Shane? Nobody. There's a big gap between Shane and everyone else in the US. Europe has more people at the very top level. Mika, Niels, etc.
You have to read towards the bottom of the interview ... He was asked specifically how America has affected his game and how the Eurotour compares to America. I won't pretend to be a Eurotour expert when I am not. I am just trying to interpret and understand Appleton's response. Reading this doesn't sound too convincing for your arguments. How do you guys interpret this?


Pro9 Do you feel you have genuinely benefited professionally from this relocation? Do you feel you have performed better in the majority of tournaments overall, or would you have had the same success no matter where you were based? Do you think there are other European players who could benefit from doing the same as you?

Darren I think my game is sharper, I'm more active and I'm learning all the time. Trust me, people haven't seen the best of me yet. I'm still improving but we will see, I'm still young to American pool, but moving to the States was a great move for my career. It was also great for my private life, I met amazing people and I feel more appreciated in the States with the fans in general. I'm sure if I lived anywhere else, I would still be successful, but who knows. When I lived in England, I was successful, but I still felt my game would improve more in the States... so that was the goal. I'm sure other players would benefit if they spent more time in the States. Phil Burford, for example... his game looks strong now and he looks better mentally also. I'm sure someone like Jayson Shaw, who, for me, is an unbelievable talent in the UK, would improve so much more in the States... especially on this tougher equipment and none of the magic stuff. He would get a lot of action over here and also learn so many different games like one pocket, bank pool, straight pool, etc. It makes a big difference to your knowledge, which is the only weak part of a lot of Brits, is lack of knowledge. So I'm sure it will benefit all the guys if they spent more time in the USA.


Pro9 How do you think the European tournaments stack up against the ones in the USA? Is there anything we can learn from how they do things in America, are we missing out on anything over here? Conversely, what do you think the top Americans would make of the GB 9 Ball Tour and the EPBF Euro Tour if they were able to come over here and attend an event or two? Can we be rightly proud of what we have right here on our doorstep?

Darren In the UK, we have so many raw talents coming through. The standard and numbers rose so much over the last few years since the 8ball lads followed me after my success. They all steam-rolled over, which is amazing. More and more have come over each year and the GB9 is growing all the time. I'm pretty proud of what I have done and got 8ball lads to see the light - that American pool is so much better and has a potentially much better future in regards to exposure, titles, money etc. With the world of Lee Rigby and his staff, it's getting bigger and bigger. There are also MMTV events that Andy Appleton runs, plus all the local events. It's a real buzz in the UK for 9ball and it's great to see. When I first started playing, there was nothing really... just a handful of players in the Yorkshire area. How things have changed, wow. It will only get better, UK pool players will dominate in Europe for sure in the future, but I suspect the likes of Jayson Shaw and other youngsters coming through will do serious damage on the world stage. It's an exciting future for Great Britain in the pool world.

I think the GB9 is great and there is not much to change there. It's the players' tour and run for the players, so it's a happy camp and will grow... especially with Lee Rigby.

European tour, the playing conditions are better than past. The huge pockets have gone, but I feel the races are too short and the prize money very poor for what it is.

The States, I like the tournaments here because it's rack your own and on Diamond tables 90% of the time. In my opinion, Diamonds are the best tables in world and most events have double elimination, which I like. The venues are much better in the States, with the arena and seating for spectators and introduction for the players gives you that buzz. They don't stop professionals from playing local tournaments. In Europe, they just handicap the players. It really is a disadvantage to be a professional in the UK, especially if you're not in the elite top 6-8 players. For example, my brother turned pro this year he hardly played any pool this year. It has nothing to do with play as 90% of the tournaments are one day tournaments. He's not quite at the top 8 level, so last year when he was amateur he was playing every week and did great. It's a shame these guys get shut out... that would never happen in the States or Asia.
 
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exactly right, daz did not saya the level of play his higher he said there are more action aand tournament which is there is. remember daz is coming from England not Germany or Holland. snooker is the biggest cue sport in the world and in England its massive pool is still seen kinda of a joke in the UK, jimmy white referred to it as a kids game. Now I disagree with that but im stating why daz moved. only thing he had was the GB9 which was in its infancy at that time. his gf was in the states, and like he said same reason as Thorsten it was also sponsor driven.

as for euro tour v joss tour are you having a Steffi graaff? thats atrocious yes dechaine and shaw would compete but not even close its super deep in the euro tour and has world champions in it. granted I think joss tour, northeast region is the strongest in the US right now good things coming out of that way

I believe the mosconi will spark this debate again. im glad t see gray back on the team although personally don't think he is good enough but he won his qualifying event so he gets a spot, shame that euro have to have restrictions on their team selection in order to make it fair

Again, I'll have to trump in with the WPA awards points for the eruo tour. If they did that as well for joss tour, the incentive would be greater for more talent to make regular appearances.

You can also flip the coin and say what if the WPA didn't award points for the euro tour, would it still be as deep?

And on the merit of recent events in the last year (as Sjm mentioned above), joss tour pros have outplayed euro tour pros so couple that with the wpa point discrepancy, the joss tour is strong and outperforming euro.
 
Question to any of our Pinoy friends that post on AZB:

Assuming Dennis Orcollo had his choice of partners for the upcoming Philippine Open 10-Ball Doubles Championship, how and why did he end up with Shane Van Boening as his playing partner?
 
... Joss Tour versus Euro Tour? Are you kidding? ...

I'd say you should distinguish between the Joss Tour Turning Stone events and the other Joss Tour events.

The former are as strong as Euro Tour events, the latter are not.
 
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