The OD of the joint is the screw or pilot.
Not the handle or forearm's profile .
Are "parabolic" tapered cues such as SW, conical in profile ????
Should we call their joint, parabolic joint ?
conical joint
- Thread starter alphadog
- Start date
The OD of the joint is the screw or pilot.
Not the handle or forearm's profile .
Are "parabolic" tapered cues such as SW, conical in profile ????
Should we call their joint, parabolic joint ?
ECFrio,
Most cue joint collars have a conical profile. I was referring to the tapered OD of any joint collar. The convex concave was referring to facing on a Lambros joint face. The other brand that was shown looks like a cone geometry.
My last question was: is the reference in the Blue Book discription correct? Me, I don't know for sure. I remember looking at it and I think it was a concave convex not conical.
That's all, i did not wish to get under your skin some how but I like the cool ranch.
It's a joke son, it's a joke.
Rick
Last edited:
Quote:
Originally Posted by shankster8
Wow, Rick!! Your link makes me guess Frito wishes he could delete his post
He is a new member who just joined this month.
No information available on this guy so maybe there is an agenda there somehow. Too soon to tell.
Last edited:
Actually, he joined LAST month, unless you go by a different calendar....but you do go by a different beat to begin with so....Quote:
Originally Posted by shankster8
Wow, Rick!! Your link makes me guess Frito wishes he could delete his post
He is a new member who just joined this month.
No information available on this guy so maybe there is an agenda there somehow. Too soon to tell.
It does seem that he has a very good read on you and the type of person you are.... so he can't be too bad.
DAve
Last edited:
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
I joined recently, lurked for quite a while and have read extensively since joining.
So lambros uses the terms convex and concave conical to describe whether the joint is an "innie" or an "outie". Sorry for the complex scientific terms. Ha.
https://www.google.com/patents/US58...ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMIvb3nzJXqxgIVSzCICh3HJgl3
https://www.google.com/patents/US58...ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMIvb3nzJXqxgIVSzCICh3HJgl3
I just read through that. Concave/convex is not the correct terminology in this application. It should read as male/female, imo. The joint is conical since convex/concave refers to a curve.
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
Agreed, I didn't think to look for the patent drawings and the bad photos I found online made it look like there might have been a curve to his joining sections.
Ryan,
This is cut right from the description in the Lambros patent stuff.
"A more detailed design for a main joint is disclosed in which the first tenon is formed with a section of convex (e.g., conical) periphery. The second tenon is formed with a concave receptacle at its tip adapted for receiving the convex section of the first tenon".
The use of (eg. conical) above is correct at describing the periphery indeed even though it is convex / concave because:
IMO, it is the curve that makes Mike's design such a winner and his design so relevant.
Just my opinion,
Rick
Last edited:
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
There is only one engineering reason to use a curve instead of a straight taper in Mr. Lambros' joint. I'm not going to tell you what it is, but I will tell you that even if he thought it was necessary, he used it incorrectly. You can give me your opinion on why he used it, I'll give you a gold star if you get it right.
There are many reasons to not use a curved taper in his joint:
1. Cost of production is higher
2. Repeatability is lower
3. Curved geometry is, by design, either loose or over-constrained.
There is a reason that the Morse taper is still used. There is a reason that collet chucks use a straight taper. This crap has been around since the 1860's and it hasn't been improved upon.
Can a convex have a stem ?
Doesn't that curve have to be complete ?
Doesn't that curve have to be complete ?
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
No, it doesn't have to be complete either in the case of conical (technically conical frustruma or convex/concave...which in this case would be better called a revolution of a curve (more accurately a 'gabriel's horn').
Aaah. Thanks.
Ok ECF, I will give it a try,
The curved face can be machine adjusted slightly after initial production machining. The cue length will change slightly if this is done after finishing of the butt cap feature is already completed.
It seems to me precise 1/2 radius tools would be used on a lathe to machine the curved profiles using a collet chuck set up for both male and female contours.
On a straight taper joint system like the ones that were shown, once you machine the face and the taper angle length, one can not adjust the facing with out effecting the interface of the conical straight angle male / female. Because there is a thread as a connector with a refusal point, if you take material off the face to accommodate a decor ring line up for example, things will get out of whack. You either wind up with a gap in the face or a gap in the taper interface depending on which side you adjust, male or female. Any one of these gaps would be cause for rejection.
I have observed that Mike does not commonly use intricate rings that need integrated lineup on his cues. If his joint makes his cue play better it seems a small price to to pay if one is looking for functionality over form. His cues play super so there it is.
I like his cues very much and know a lot of people who play with them and love the feel.
JMO,
Rick
Last edited:
There goes the A-joint disadvantage.
Improve the hit by A-joint and joint engineering.
Good luck in keeping the two pieces "square" and straight.
It's going to be real nice task.
Improve the hit by A-joint and joint engineering.
Good luck with that .
Good luck in keeping the two pieces "square" and straight.
It's going to be real nice task.
Last edited:
RBC
Deceased
The only problem Rick is that he doesn't use any curves.
The Lambro joints are straight tapered frustoms. It's not that complicated of a joint.
I don't see it as causing any miracle changes to the hit either, but most of that is in our heads anyway.
Royce
Looks like a machine tool holder to me.
The Big company, makes tool holders that load on the shoulder and the taper at the same time.
In a cue, it is just a little more involved when a reface is required. To keep it standard, bothe side will require reworking, depending on where the damage occurs. It certainly stops someone else putting on a regular shaft easily.
Neil
The Big company, makes tool holders that load on the shoulder and the taper at the same time.
In a cue, it is just a little more involved when a reface is required. To keep it standard, bothe side will require reworking, depending on where the damage occurs. It certainly stops someone else putting on a regular shaft easily.
Neil
Pure gibberish.
The Lambros joint does NOT involve any mating surfaces that are "concave and convex", by their accepted definitions. It's a simple male/female taper, and the correct seating - and refacing of the joint halves (if ever required) - can be accomplished with a very simple set of matched forming tools. These types of tapered seats have been fabricated for many, MANY purposes for well over 100 years,
TW
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
No.
The only argument to be made for using a convex section (which, is not, not, not 'conical', no matter how many times you quote yourself), is to reduce stress risers. Even then, the better way would be to simply use a fillet of a decent radius and not a full convex tapered section.
ElCorazonFrio
Banned
Thanks for the clarification, I've never inspected one up close, but it would have surprised me if it were convex.