CONSUMER BEHAVIOUR & MARKETING STRATEGY in game of POOL

J

John9ball

Registered
Having researched and taught in the all area where I used to live for many years,I saw a need for a text and thuoghts with more integrative,strategic marketing approach to consumer behaviour.Althouth this is never easy on any field,we(who are in the game) undertook the task to resolve several specific problems we saw in the existing consumer behaviour.
So,I would like to get some ideas and thoughts about what do we who are in the game missing in our exertions to become much more recognizable as a community and what do we do wrong and what should we do to bring POOL higher and get much more appreciated attention that we and pool certainly deserve.
I have some ideas,but I would like to hear yours!
Thanks
John
 
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Scherf said:
What could you possibly mean by this?
Click to expand...

I mean that unity is oversold as a good thing.

First off, herding pool players is like herding cats.

Second, why does combining all the entities in pool add up to better pool? I haven't seen that happen that way.

Everytime a big organization appears, the first thing they want is for everyone to go along with their goals, even though their goals might conflict with others' goals. So, trying to get everyone to go along and agree with everyone else is time-consuming and a waste of scare--very scarce--resources.

Otoh, having many decentralized entities, each trying to do its thing, at least gives us a process for improvement and doesn't waste those scare, valuable resources.

imho,


Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
I mean that unity is oversold as a good thing.

First off, herding pool players is like herding cats.

Second, why does combining all the entities in pool add up to better pool? I haven't seen that happen that way.

Everytime a big organization appears, the first thing they want is for everyone to go along with their goals, even though their goals might conflict with others' goals. So, trying to get everyone to go along and agree with everyone else is time-consuming and a waste of scare--very scarce--resources.

Otoh, having many decentralized entities, each trying to do its thing, at least gives us a process for improvement and doesn't waste those scare, valuable resources.

imho,


Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Everytime a big organization appears, the first thing they want is for everyone to go along with their goals, even though their goals might conflict with others' goals. So, trying to get everyone to go along and agree with everyone else is time-consuming and a waste of scare--very scarce--resources.


No media outlet had a story or asked the right questions but the NBA is a good example of this , don't know how many resources were wasted but i'm sure some money was expended . The NBA changed the basketball itself from leather to a synthetic material , the players didn't like it but it was forced on the game .

Soon the complaining got louder and they reverted back to leather ball . This is David Stern and his wife injecting their personal beliefs about using animal products on the sport .
 
I think if you were to invent a new game that incorporated all the other games and made your own set of balls with jerseys and had teams with names and got investors and then sold ppv ......................
 
Room Owner Apathy

John9ball said:
Some more ideas and point of veiews !
:smile::thumbup:
Click to expand...

John,
I don't know what your ideas are but warming up the room owners to doing anything is going to be a challenge so with that said......what kind of marketing strategy are you talking about. Your post has me curious.
 
chefjeff said:
I mean that unity is oversold as a good thing.

First off, herding pool players is like herding cats.

Second, why does combining all the entities in pool add up to better pool? I haven't seen that happen that way.

Everytime a big organization appears, the first thing they want is for everyone to go along with their goals, even though their goals might conflict with others' goals. So, trying to get everyone to go along and agree with everyone else is time-consuming and a waste of scare--very scarce--resources.

Otoh, having many decentralized entities, each trying to do its thing, at least gives us a process for improvement and doesn't waste those scare, valuable resources.

imho,

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...


Dang Jeff. Tell us how you really feel.


Unity doesnt equate to dictatorship, or else it wouldnt be unity.

And, I dont think anyone in this thread suggested 'combining all pool entities.'

Maybe you read a little more into it than was written.

FWIW When I mentioned unity, I was thinking about "coming together" on things like construction standards, game rules, qualifications for earning titles, promoting the industry, bringing in new players. Or, in other words, finding ways and things to agree upon, instead of the opposite.

Finding ways and means to work together, instead of demanding to work alone and making things harder for yourself and everyone around you. Or, in other words, cooperation, instead of the opposite.
 
Mr. Bond said:
Dang Jeff. Tell us how you really feel.


Unity doesnt equate to dictatorship, or else it wouldnt be unity.

And, I dont think anyone in this thread suggested 'combining all pool entities.'

Maybe you read a little more into it than was written.

FWIW When I mentioned unity, I was thinking about "coming together" on things like construction standards, game rules, qualifications for earning titles, promoting the industry, bringing in new players. Or, in other words, finding ways and things to agree upon, instead of the opposite.

Finding ways and means to work together, instead of demanding to work alone and making things harder for yourself and everyone around you. Or, in other words, cooperation, instead of the opposite.
Click to expand...

I wasn't really talking about any specific ideas for combining us, but talking about the principle's consequences.

Let's take APA for one successful example. I'd bet a C note that 99% of us "real" pool players hate the apa for their stupid rules, stupider handicapping/sandbagging system, the highest price to play, political games to get to Vegas for "free," etc. etc.....yet....yet, this company makes more money than any other, brings in more new players than any other, has lasted decades longer than any other group, etc. etc. If they had joined the crowd, done what all of us "real " pool players suggested and changed to suit the whole of us, they'd have gone out of business years ago.

That's one example that makes my point.

Jeff Livingston

PS Please don't change this thread to bashing apa..thanks.
 
That was pretty longwinded way to ask "what can we do to make pool more popular?".
Which is a very popular topic on here with a thousand answers, some of which might actually work.

About the unity vs. decentralization debate... look at other sports or activities that are successful.
Are the popular ones more united than pool? Seems pretty obvious they are.

NFL, NBA, PGA, MLB, NHL, and so on.
You can ask any random person what 3-letter organization rules each of these sports and they can
answer you even if they don't follow the sport (I never watched hockey in my life).

Good luck finding a bunch of people who say "WPA" when asked who organization rules pool.
You might find a few who say BCA.

The downsides to a governing body (like having to play by a set of rules I may not like)
would be trumped by the upsides.

What upsides? Well, logistics to start - how much easier is it to run events
if one body organizes them so there are no scheduling conflicts? If there's one brand of table that gets
used and shipped out so nobody can cry that they got beat by small pockets or boingy rails or
gaffy pocket cut? How much easier is it if there's no rules arguments because this tournament's rules
are the exact same as every other major tournament that year?

It's also nice to have the leverage that comes from having all the numbers and the money.
Right now, people hate that CW calls his event the world championship. But nobody can stop him
because he doesn't care about being officially sanctioned by the WPA. What if the WPA
had all the heavy hitters playing with a contract with stipulations that they can't compete in
unsanctioned events? He'd fall in line and rename the tournament probably, or else
figure out how to meet their standards.

Maybe that's not an example of leverage that everyone would love,
but it illustrates the idea.
 
In our town, we have, at my last count, 11 league systems. Eleven!

Each was started to counteract another league's faults, according to the new league guy, anyway.


Those disorganized leagues do more for pool around here than any national group does.

I'm no expert on it, but I see what I see. Also, marketing pool is the most important function in the business. What large entity has helped in that effort? The BCA? meh All the associations that have formed and died over the years? nah World pool groups? who?

Why are leagues so popular and how can that popularity be parlayed into bigger venues, bucks, tourneys, etc.? I think if any group is to be used, it is the leagues.

Teaching/marketing to league players about pro pool, big table pool, big time pool, pool hustling, pool marketing, pool pros, etc. and how all of that would be of benefit to the leagues might be a good step. Getting sponsors to put up some dough for leagues and getting league players to patronize those sponsors would add much to the game.


Then there are those like us who do this individually as we go about our lives. That is probably the best marketing strategy for us at this low-participation stage. It's cheap, anyone can do it today, and person-to-person marketing is the most effective for winning over a prospect.

In other news, I saw that what's his face (he'd want me to name him) is getting fined millions and maybe some jail time for fraud. So, with that info., I'd also add that fraudulent schemes probably aren't the way to go.


Jeff Livingston
 
Well intended, but marketing strategy is formed from a DATABASE on consumers, and the cue games don't have one and never have. All we know about our followers is that they smoke, drink and gamble, which is why the few sponsors pro pool has found are tobacco companies, distilleries and casinos.
 
George Fels said:
Well intended, but marketing strategy is formed from a DATABASE on consumers, and the cue games don't have one and never have. All we know about our followers is that they smoke, drink and gamble, which is why the few sponsors pro pool has found are tobacco companies, distilleries and casinos.
Click to expand...

Good point, my favorite writer on pool related stuff. (I was promoting you the other day, btw to some of my league players.) As I read your articles in BD, I always think of the diversity of the pool players you highlight and how they probably wouldn't ever be able to be herded into common goals. Characters, for sure.

Well, if someone would start a company that gathers that all that data and sells it to groups who could use it to market their products/services better, he might be on to something good. Has that or is that being done now?


Jeff Livingston
 
Databases

chefjeff said:
Good point, my favorite writer on pool related stuff. (I was promoting you the other day, btw to some of my league players.) As I read your articles in BD, I always think of the diversity of the pool players you highlight and how they probably wouldn't ever be able to be herded into common goals. Characters, for sure.

Well, if someone would start a company that gathers that all that data and sells it to groups who could use it to market their products/services better, he might be on to something good. Has that or is that being done now?


Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Jeff,
I would have to expand that the lists that exist are proprietary and probably wont be shared. Who ever or What ever is done may have the blessing or access given them by a few but the idea of the databases that exist is to make their owners money and you arent likey to get access. So something new is likely to be on its own.
 
336Robin said:
Jeff,
I would have to expand that the lists that exist are proprietary and probably wont be shared. Who ever or What ever is done may have the blessing or access given them by a few but the idea of the databases that exist is to make their owners money and you arent likey to get access. So something new is likely to be on its own.
Click to expand...

I agree. I mentioned selling the data, not simply sharing it. Sharing it requires the old "unity" paradigm that I'm arguing is the wrong approach.



I was think of leagues today, because of this thread. I've been in leagues for 35 years, 25 of those are every week, sometimes twice or three times a week. Here's the thought I had today:

League players are sitting around waiting to be exploited by some savvy marketers. We show up, quaff a few beers, pound a few balls, add up the score and....then go home until next week. That's it. There is really nothing else about pool that happens.

Here are thousand and thousands of league players missing out on some great values that many here and throughout the pool world are trying to sell. They never see any of what we AZBers see. They just don't...because no one is marketing anything to them.


Jeff Livingston
 
Youre right

chefjeff said:
I agree. I mentioned selling the data, not simply sharing it. Sharing it requires the old "unity" paradigm that I'm arguing is the wrong approach.



I was think of leagues today, because of this thread. I've been in leagues for 35 years, 25 of those are every week, sometimes twice or three times a week. Here's the thought I had today:

League players are sitting around waiting to be exploited by some savvy marketers. We show up, quaff a few beers, pound a few balls, add up the score and....then go home until next week. That's it. There is really nothing else about pool that happens.

Here are thousand and thousands of league players missing out on some great values that many here and throughout the pool world are trying to sell. They never see any of what we AZBers see. They just don't...because no one is marketing anything to them.


Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Jeff,
Youre right. I would guess that those players are what is actually holding a large portion of the industry together. They probably buy most of the merchandise, many of them drink in the bars where they play and when a team splits up they recruit new people to play. If it weren't for them bringing the occasional new player into the sport, I have to wonder just who would.
 
336Robin said:
Jeff,
Youre right. I would guess that those players are what is actually holding a large portion of the industry together. They probably buy most of the merchandise, many of them drink in the bars where they play and when a team splits up they recruit new people to play. If it weren't for them bringing the occasional new player into the sport, I have to wonder just who would.
Click to expand...

Good point about the newbies. I've done that many times myself without really thinking about growing the sport itself. I just helped one new player set up his new table in his basement, for example.


Another thought I had...

The main set of league players who can really mentally associate with any pro players are those who go to the bigger tournaments (e.g. state and regional) and personally engage in the same pool actions as the pros do. Not at their level, of course, but still in the game of toughing it out for a few days against the best around, being on the road, etc.

I think THAT association, that common interest between banger and pro, might be a good starting point for the veteran league players to grab onto. If a league player can relate to a pro player this way, pro pool might have a base to start from. EDIT: I know Mark Griffin is doing this and bless him!


Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Good point about the newbies. I've done that many times myself without really thinking about growing the sport itself. I just helped one new player set up his new table in his basement, for example.


Another thought I had...

The main set of league players who can really mentally associate with any pro players are those who go to the bigger tournaments (e.g. state and regional) and personally engage in the same pool actions as the pros do. Not at their level, of course, but still in the game of toughing it out for a few days against the best around, being on the road, etc.

I think THAT association, that common interest between banger and pro, might be a good starting point for the veteran league players to grab onto. If a league player can relate to a pro player this way, pro pool might have a base to start from. EDIT: I know Mark Griffin is doing this and bless him!


Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Their is an interesting thread somewhere here about a new way for pros to get sponsorship by attending a tournament......Sandcastle in Edison, NJ.

It sounded pretty interesting Id like to find out more about it works.
 
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