This is something I have actually given much thought to and have - dare I say - 'researched' for the last 365 days or so.
" I'm looking for this man, to sell him, to another man..."
CONSUMER BEHAVIOUR & MARKETING STRATEGY in game of POOL
- Thread starter John9ball
- Start date
This is something I have actually given much thought to and have - dare I say - 'researched' for the last 365 days or so.
" I'm looking for this man, to sell him, to another man..."
11 leagues is good, but might it not be better to combine 5 of them into one big league, 6 into another,
and have these two giants compete with each other?
The league I go to has only 5 teams, and it's the APA. Yet it's in this rich county with tons of people.
I think with everyone pooling league fees together into one or two giant leagues we'd get larger payouts
(combining all these league fees into one large pot instead of 10 small ones) and more participation
(you don't have to pick awhich friends to hang out with on league night, where some of them
do league A, some do B, some do C.... they're ALL doing league A).
and have these two giants compete with each other?
The league I go to has only 5 teams, and it's the APA. Yet it's in this rich county with tons of people.
I think with everyone pooling league fees together into one or two giant leagues we'd get larger payouts
(combining all these league fees into one large pot instead of 10 small ones) and more participation
(you don't have to pick awhich friends to hang out with on league night, where some of them
do league A, some do B, some do C.... they're ALL doing league A).
GF, during the early years of the BCA's move to Colorado Springs, the BCA did a survey and the results were very informative. I'm pretty sure they did it at the Rivera during the Nationals either the first or second year after the move. John Lewis most likely has copy, and with the BCA being a non profit that would/should be public information. I'd contact them directly to see if they still have copy. It was a good read.
We've been hashing this out for years. What are your ideas??
The OP is most likely looking for help. I think his best efforts would be the suggestion of digging up the BCA report, and digging thru the search engine on this forum.
No it would not be better.
Payouts currently come from only the players so each player cannot get back much more than he put in and of course the whole league cannot get back more than it puts in.
The leagues formed because of dissatisfaction with other already existing leagues. That kind of reinforces my first point here: diversification solves problems that unity can't.
Jeff Livingston
Thoughts
People are People...tracking patterns might help us to understand where to send the information...but really what does that get us? You have to decide a medium and then you have to get it there for a cost. Then who pays for it?
I think consumer behavior is to purchase when they have money. So you market to the ones who have money only? I think you just market and those that have money show up.
People are People...tracking patterns might help us to understand where to send the information...but really what does that get us? You have to decide a medium and then you have to get it there for a cost. Then who pays for it?
I think consumer behavior is to purchase when they have money. So you market to the ones who have money only? I think you just market and those that have money show up.
Well, you can get back much more than you put in, but you must beat a lot more teams to do it.
Sort of like how you can't earn much from winning a tournament with 8 players, but you can with 64 players.
I imagine some league players would like it if coming in third meant a big payday, even though
coming in 3rd is a lot tougher with 20 teams than it is with 5 teams.
Can't argue all these small leagues let you pick whichever one has the rules, handicap and format you like.
But it does further fracture a game that already has so many little rulesets.
People have to ask "are we playing APA rules or BCA rules? regular BCA rules or BCA League rules? Or WPA rules?"
That report would be dated by now, we don't know their methodology, nor the size of their sample (whatever figures they did come up with would be statistical projections, not head counts). But you're right, it's probably the closest thing we have to bona fide research.
Very true, and I don't think pool players thinking has changed an Iota in ten years.
Where is the Guy that Started this Thread?
Where is the guy that started this thread?
Where is the guy that started this thread?
It doesn't fracture the game it enhances it. It gives players more choices that fit each player best.
If I want the best payout, I choose the old (circa 1968) the old City League and play by bar rules. If I want to go to Vegas "free," I choose APA and learn how to sandbag and not get caught. If I want to play the best around, I choose either VNEA or the new version of BCA ( I forget the letters), etc. If I'm not good enough for VNEA, but have burnt out in APA, I choose Metro league which is just between those two in skill levels. If I want to have the most accurate handicapping system (with all the bookwork necessary to score it), I choose TAP league. If I don't like one of the Valley table suppliers, I choose the other Valley company to play for.
etc.
THAT has been my point in this thread, but it seems to not be found or has been lost.
Jeff Livingston
I do see your point. As a consumer, having choices is generally good.
You can get exactly what you want instead of settling.
If you're league-shopping, having a dozen choices is great.
I just think there are things we give up by not organizing into a large body.
Not just leagues specifically, but a major governing body for pool and a pro tour.
These may not be immediately obvious or important to many people who just
playing recreationally and don't worry too much about the pro scene.
We have conversations on AZ all the time like:
"pool is dying".
"no, pro pool is struggling. Amateur pool is just fine."
"no, everything is struggling. Rooms are closing."
For a lot of people the mindset seems to be "well my room is doing fine and I can go
play 5 nights a week, so I could care less if half the players can't tell me what SVB stands for,
or how little the pros are getting paid."
Try to imagine if various organizations banded together and increased the pool of money to something unreal.
Maybe the national media cares when a team goes to vegas when they're playing for 250 grand and not 15 grand.
Maybe shane's a millionaire and a household name, maybe ESPN is dying to air the US Open,
maybe a few pool rooms keep a house pro on the payroll and an 'average' pro doesn't need to get a day job.
Maybe I can start a game of one pocket without 350 rule clarifications or sitpulations to work out.
I hear you.
I'm not against such organizations forming, but I am against the mentality that only "unity" helps move the game forward.
The history of pool folks organizing groups this way is disappointing to say the least. Shamos has written on that history as have others and all those groups are gone now.
Maybe we're trying to leap up too many rungs on the ladder at a time and just need to take one step up, check out the view, and continue with just one more step, repeat.
Another problem with having a large group fix stuff is a lot of players/promoters with good ideas might just sit back and watch and wait for that group to fix everything. I'm thinking IPT as I type this.
Jeff Livingston
Stigma
We have to realize that Pool is nothing more than Pool and it has gained a stigma on the local level because its played in bars for a large part of it.
When Pool is played by a more diverse crowd and not in bars I think some of the stigma will be off of it and it may become more respectable.
People have to want their kids to be able to play pool for the stigma to come off. Then it will be worth more.
We have to realize that Pool is nothing more than Pool and it has gained a stigma on the local level because its played in bars for a large part of it.
When Pool is played by a more diverse crowd and not in bars I think some of the stigma will be off of it and it may become more respectable.
People have to want their kids to be able to play pool for the stigma to come off. Then it will be worth more.
LMAO..........................:thumbup2:
Jeff................at least ''we're'' gettin' closer...............:thumbup2: But as we know, there are so many leagues, but so little time. Yeah we have guyzs that only attend leagues where their team is a lock, and work it that way. They fall hard tho when pounded upon by another team.
This thread is all in good Fun.:smile:
Yes it is but I got in here ready to be regaled with something new and powerful and pfft it was gone!
Time Frame
What Market Research has been done in the past, it would be totally useless to utilize any aspect of it. Trends have changed so much, even amongst pool players in leagues.
There is no organization that is financially capable of hiring a national PR firm that would do a study for Market Analysis. The BCA Trade Association is too small.
Carl
Bill, I'd say "more like 25..." in my best Robert Shaw(Capt. Quint-Jaws) voice.
What Market Research has been done in the past, it would be totally useless to utilize any aspect of it. Trends have changed so much, even amongst pool players in leagues.
There is no organization that is financially capable of hiring a national PR firm that would do a study for Market Analysis. The BCA Trade Association is too small.
Carl