No, it is not the referee's job to know the behavior of the cueball. Never has been and never will be. You do need to see contact - because which ball was actually hit first is what the judgement should be based on according to the rules of the game. You can't make decisions on "ball behavior" because then you'd be making judgements about situations way more complex than this based on what "probably" or "everybody knows" happened.
Controversial Non-Call of WRONG-BALL-HIT-FIRST FOUL - Hanoi Open - Capito vs. Lechner Quarter Final
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
You are definitely seeing something I am not seeing, and I studied all footage very carefully.
It was definitely the wrong call because the 9-first foul is obvious based on all the reasoning and examples in the video. Please watch the entire video again and let me know if you still
think the shot was good.
Capito has always been a stand up guy. It’s BS to say he knew he fouled. If he didn’t call it on himself, it’s only because he wasn’t sure. Apparently it wasn’t as obvious as some people are making it out to be since it got ruled as a good hit. Mistakes happen, but questioning his integrity is not cool.
all us pretty 'good players' say thanks for the backhanded cheap shot. if i was the ref here i would have called it good. guess i'm just not the poindexter type. i've been called in a gillion times over the yrs. to call a shot and i've never had one complaint and i didn't know a fkng thing about tangent lines. guess i'm just a born natural ref who either never got it wrong or the players were as clueless as i was.
Agree here BIG TIME. I love how some of these nimrods assume they know what he did or didn't try to do here.
Yes and no. The referee's job is to be the judge, not the judge and jury.
So let's skip forward 100 years to the two best players ever playing 9 ball, a game that has been almost "solved" by today's standards. Instant replay technology is used on every single shot and happens so quickly that it's effectively real time. Both players (and their peers) "know" that it was probably a foul because of cueball motion but the replay (at 2 million frames per second) still shows a simultaneous hit - do we call a foul? No. Never. Judge not judge and jury.
Same hereall us pretty 'good players' say thanks for the backhanded cheap shot. if i was the ref here i would have called it good. guess i'm just not the poindexter type. i've been called in a gillion times over the yrs. to call a shot and i've never had one complaint and i didn't know a fkng thing about tangent lines. guess i'm just a born natural ref who either never got it wrong or the players were as clueless as i was.
A “trained professional referee” should be very competent concerning understanding basic pool ball physics and how tangent lines work. This stuff is crucial to making correct calls confidently. After a careful video review, the correct call should have been figured out.all us pretty 'good players' say thanks for the backhanded cheap shot. if i was the ref here i would have called it good. guess i'm just not the poindexter type. i've been called in a gillion times over the yrs. to call a shot and i've never had one complaint and i didn't know a fkng thing about tangent lines. guess i'm just a born natural ref who either never got it wrong or the players were as clueless as i was.
BTW, if any “good player” sets up this shot and shoots it both ways with the view Capito had, I am confident it would be very clear that the CB should not move the way it did if the hit were clean. The required hit on the 4 was very full. That CB should go forward, as demonstrated in my video.
dr-dave are you the best player in the world ever in the history of the universe and all the other universes? Do you know on every shot, as soon as you have hit the cue ball, exactly where all the balls are going?
Your analysis of the shot is great, and we can all learn a lot from it. Mostly, we can learn not to play that shot because, unless we play it correctly or almost correctly, the cueball won't either hit the target ball first or hit both balls simultaneously. Good and honest players do this all the time to avoid controversy when they are playing less clued up opponents. But saying that the referee should have called a foul is stone cold wrong - it is not a clear and obvious foul. If I'm a TD and a referee starts making judgements based on what is "supposed to happen", I'm swapping places and asking that ref to follow my bracket.
I am not sure what you mean. There is no jury, so the ref is the "judge and jury" (using everything at their disposal as evidence, including slow-motion video replay).
Yes. If the CB heads in the direction implying the wrong ball was hit first, the shot must be called a foul. Any qualified, knowledgeable, and experienced referee would agree with this. For example, look at the examples in the Background section of the video starting at the 1:15 point. The motion of the CB tells all. You don't need video replay. And regardless how fast the frame rate is for the video, there is still stuff happening between the available frames of video.
No. I am not a pro player or even a top amateur.
... not always live, but after careful video review with several views available, any obvious foul would be easy to call.
Thanks.
Well, based on all the reasoning, examples, and demonstrations in my video, I obviously disagree 100%.
A real pool player would have just banked that ball in at warp speed and drawn the cue ball around the table a couple times to get the crowd woke up.
Xdecemberguy
Member
Challenge: set up 10 examples with object balls close together as shown in the video, in different locations around a pool table, middle, near sides rails, and the pocket, shoot the shot, and based on the cue ball motion after tell if it was good or not...have one be hit simultaneously, maybe one with english... let the sleuthing begin..
Any pro on the planet knew that was a foul by how the CB moved. Max sure did, he's the one that stopped the game. He even motioned with his hands how the CB went sideways during the live broadcast. You're an Open speed player. Are you telling me if you shot that at the table and the CB went the way it did, you wouldn't think to yourself "I think I fouled"?
Iwishiwasrich
Well-known member
It's always been common knowledge that a hit that close goes to the shooter if a referee isn't called to watch it. In this case the ref watched it and called it good even after reviewing it. Nothing is going to change the call now.
Iwishiwasrich
Well-known member
That being said I think it was a foul and agree that a ref worth his weight in salt should know by the ball action whether it was good or not.
What was the issue here?
With a simultaneous hit, the results would not be at either extreme and would be inconclusive, so no foul would be called. A foul can be called only if the direct or indirect evidence is clear.
2 outta 3 rock, paper, scissors...
damn this is a pool player’s web page made up of pool players with years of experience, discussing a professional referee who’s job is to know and understand the game and make decisions that will impact the best players in the world in international competition
listening to the arguments about this shot sounds like i’m at a bar with drunks who don’t know or care to know about how the game is played or understand the most basic elements of simple rolling ball physics
i can’t believe it and i really don’t know what to say except i am surprised
listening to the arguments about this shot sounds like i’m at a bar with drunks who don’t know or care to know about how the game is played or understand the most basic elements of simple rolling ball physics
i can’t believe it and i really don’t know what to say except i am surprised
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