This statement is probably true for a different reason that you think.I'm no copyright lawyer, but I do know that in many cases it is completely legal and acceptable to photocopy existing works, either in part or in entirety. This falls under the "fair use" section of copyright law.
It is a somewhat fuzzy area as to what constitutes fair use, but two big factors are whether or not you intend to profit from selling copyrighted works, and whether the works are currently available at a reasonable price (i.e. still in print and available for retail purchase).
I'd be willing to bet that having a copy of either of these books made by a legitimate owner (this would include a public library) would be viewed as "fair use" by a copyright lawyer. Now, if he tried to sell it for any amount of money, goods, or services, that would probably be breaking the law.
What are you? 29 or 30 years old? You think you know it all already don't you? You played two-foul 9-Ball once or twice(and didn't bet nothing) so you are an expert and you think you have a valid opinion on this topic? Why don't you hang around and see if Eddie Robin chimes in? Maybe you'll learn something if that is possible for a person who knows it all.
Did you even notice that the E-Bay link is to a book being sold by Eddie Robin? http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-pocket-...16?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c756c228=
You don't have a clue.
ONB
Although common practice is to sell at whatever the market will go for, I’m not the one who had charged $400, $500, and even as much as $800 for a book. I’m the one that ended such practice! Other than once every year or so when I lower the price a bit further for Christmas, a friend or someone wanting extra copies for presents, or whatever, I’ve been selling my regular-edition hardcover Shots, Moves, & Strategies books on eBay for between $158 and $158.97 for years. Whereas a long-time standard in the publishing world was to charge six times the cost of producing books, it wasn't meant for books long ‘out-of-print’ and definitely not for when only limited numbers remain; that’s a very different kettle of fish.
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I’d limited my price to $225 for the last of the remaining Winning One-Pocket books, which were sold out years ago, while others were charging up to $800. I obviously knew doing so would bring down the value of my books, but I did it. I switched from eBay auctions to buy-it-now because of how the auctions would sometimes make me uncomfortable when the bidding went higher than expected. This bothered me and so I'd begun the practice of including checks with shipped books. Maybe some of the many customers surprised to receive such checks are still AZ Billiard members.
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My name is Eddie Robin and I’m grateful to the few AZ Billiards members who care for what’s right and so contacted me about you and that you have made yourself so easy to find for I’m the self-publisher of Position Play, Winning One-Pocket, and Shots, Moves, & Strategies. You really should be kicked off this forum!
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You've obviously not researched the incredible cost in both jail time and money when caught at breaking the copyright laws you mock. I’ll need money to get other titles published and though I’m currently in poverty, you may be my best hope. You just may be the one who will help get me back in business.
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I do know that those that run this forum had once warned members about breaking copyright laws. Just buying stolen stuff can be quite costly as well and you may one day be forced to give up a list of customers. Have not been on AZ Billiards for long time due to the way I’d been treated here when simply wanting to help but I’m certainly looking forward to what happens re this issue.
This statement is probably true for a different reason that you think.
I also believe some lawyers would tell you that , even though they knew it was not true!
If they don't have a client , they can't charge a fee!
Fair use in copying something like a book , is referring to a quote or quotes from a book for journalistic uses or possibly copying some pages that are missing from an original book that you own to make a complete book.
NOT copying the whole book.
Ignoratia juris non excusat would be the term you would most likely hear when you were in court.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse!
Copyright infringement is a very serious offense {especially if you have something of value that can be taken from you!}
People who own nothing substantial and have no assets that can be traced , probably have very little to worry about , most people aren't going to pursue them because of the expense , but if you have enough to make a payday ??????
Also , you may get lucky and copy something from an eccentric, who doesn't care that it costs him 10 grand , he just wants to put a judgement on you in case you ever get anything that he can take it away.
If you ever heard of lawyers who are ambulance chasers , multiply that times 1000, because when you go to court , all they have to do is show that the person they represent owns the copyright , you lose , no muss, no fuss, you lose.
The purpose of copyright is not to punish the little guy!
It is to keep the big guys from stealing the little guys work and ideas and because they can produce them cheaper and have the avenues already open to distribute , they can essentailly take all the profit out of your idea.
This is the danger of posting an opinion on the Internet. You risk forever having to defend your statement.
If you bothered to read my other post, you would see that I already acknowledged that copying a book in it's entirety would very likely not be considered fair use. You would also see that I am in no way condoning the general practice, nor am I condemning it.
Here's a page from the Purdue University Copyright Office regarding fair use. They probably know a little bit about the law since they have a prestigious law school within their system.
https://www.lib.purdue.edu/uco/CopyrightBasics/fair_use.html
You should be aware that each judgment regarding copyright infringement is decided on a case-by-case basis. Once in court, the OP could use the Fair Use analysis Purdue suggests (paraphrased from the four factors favoring fair use as laid out in Section 107 of copyright law) to make a legitimate claim that he copied the work in good faith that he was doing so within the limits allowed by the law. Favoring him would be three out of four factors. The only one going against him would be the amount of the book that was copied (its entirety).
Even if he was found guilty, the punitive damages couldn't exceed the actual damages to the copyright owner, plus court and legal fees. In Mr. Robin's case, the very most he would be awarded would probably be $158, since that is the price he is asking for on ebay. I seriously doubt that this would ever go to court, though, no matter how much money the owner had. It's just not worth the court's time to hear a copyright case with so little money involved. It would likely have to be a small claims hearing, and that could go in just about any direction.
BTW all this is just me playing the devil's advocate. I think the big issue here in not a legal one, but one of respect. The author is still alive, is selling the one available book at a reasonable price, has made a valuable contribution to our sport, and has made it perfectly clear that he does not want his book photocopied. So the answer is easy - just don't do it, out of respect for one of our own.
Also, I'd just like to add a few things that may or not have already been mentioned.
For all of these copies being sold on Ebay and elsewhere. Does Eddie Robin receive any money? If the answer is no, then it's ridiculous to claim getting a pirated version of the book is wrong. When 0% of the money from each sale is going to the original author, that's just as bad as piracy. Perhaps, even worse, since someone other than the author is making a profit.
So I want to get a copy of "Winning One Pocket" and "Shots, Moves & Strategies" (the two volume set) by famed author and wizard compiler Eddie Robin. I have money, I want to spend it. But I will not be the fool that pays 200.00 to 600.00 for either or both of these books. I don't care if they resurrect Cornbread Red to hand deliver the damn thing to me.
At what point is it reasonably acceptable, for the sake of scholarly study, to just go ahead and outright pirate yourself a copy of these books by any means necessary? I have morals and scruples and a conscience, but none of those parts of me is bothered in the least when I am faced with absolutely no other option.
So what.... what are your feelings on the matter?
Regards,
Lesh
So when you buy a new car from Ford say and sell it second hand a few years later, Ford should get the money?
How have we got a thriving forum of buying and selling of second hand cues?![]()
I get what you're saying, and don't disagree with you entirely.
But there is a huge difference. When you buy a new car at say $20,000, and wish to sell it a few years later. You're never going to get $20,000 for it, and surely never going to get more.
I could buy W1P from Eddie Robin for $158, and sell it next month for $500.[/QUOT]
Shots, only moves, and strategies for $158, yes. W1P no, as he is out and was selling the remaining copies for $225.
It is doubtful you would get $500 for either.
Once you own anything you can try to sell it for whatever you want.
Then you can actually sell it for what you can get, and when you're
selling it since it's yours, you would be entitled to the proceeds.
It doesn't matter what the original price was or what you're selling it for.
The guy who wrote the book only makes money on the original sale.
All four of Eddie Robin's pool books are available to read (not to own) here:
https://openlibrary.org/authors/OL1664394A/Eddie_Robin
Be patient and you'll get your turn to read each of them.
Arnaldo
It doesn't matter what the original price was or what you're selling it for.
The guy who wrote the book only makes money on the original sale.
All four of Eddie Robin's pool books are available to read (not to own) here:
https://openlibrary.org/authors/OL1664394A/Eddie_Robin
Be patient and you'll get your turn to read each of them.
Arnaldo
I get what you're saying, and don't disagree with you entirely.
But there is a huge difference. When you buy a new car at say $20,000, and wish to sell it a few years later. You're never going to get $20,000 for it, and surely never going to get more.
I could buy W1P from Eddie Robin for $158, and sell it next month for $500.
Shots, only moves, and strategies for $158, yes. W1P no, as he is out and was selling the remaining copies for $225.
It is doubtful you would get $500 for either.
Once you own anything you can try to sell it for whatever you want.
Then you can actually sell it for what you can get, and when you're
selling it since it's yours, you would be entitled to the proceeds.
It doesn't matter what the original price was or what you're selling it for.
The guy who wrote the book only makes money on the original sale.
Evidently they have a book that Eddie never published. I wonder how that happened.