cored or uncored???

mrinsatiable

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Please forgive me if this has been asked.

What are the pro's and con's of coring a heavy or exotic wood. I spoke with one cuemaker who cores his cues all the way thru inorder to keep the "hit" of his cues consistant regardless of the woods he uses.

So for the most part the wood he uses for wrapless are just wood covers. the insides are made specifically to produce his signature hit.

I thought was a no-no.

please help. Thanks,
 
mrinsatiable said:
Please forgive me if this has been asked.

What are the pro's and con's of coring a heavy or exotic wood. I spoke with one cuemaker who cores his cues all the way thru inorder to keep the "hit" of his cues consistant regardless of the woods he uses.

So for the most part the wood he uses for wrapless are just wood covers. the insides are made specifically to produce his signature hit.

I thought was a no-no.

please help. Thanks,


With all due respect... the "hit" is 90% comprised of the shaft set-up and the remainig 10% is distributed between the joint pin, joint collar, and the forearm !

And referring to the set-up I'm meaning the type of tip/ferrule and most importantly the taper of the shaft... and how much meat you leave on or take off the back end of the taper has a tremendous effect on the "hit" and playbility of the cue !

So coring the wood is primarily for target weight issues and to allow for correct counter-balancing of the cue during construction for the most part and of course warpage reduction....

I do not feel in my professional and personal experience that the type of wood you core with is going to play a major part in the hit unless you are referring exclusively to the harmonics "sound" of the signature hit..... and not the overall physical performance....

And given this breakdown of the hit properites is why any cuemaker can replicate the hit of any cue on the market with the exception of a few of the laminated shafts due to obvious property factors !

I know I can and done so for many of my customers who want thier Meucci to play like a Schon or Joss to play like an Omen for example... this is no different than everyone putting a pred 314 on any custom butt because the end result is that every cue with a pred 314 shaft on it plays like a pred 314 and has virtually no original playabilty left in the cue at all !




Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
 
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I core only the woods I feel need it, such as burls. Everything else is uncored. Nothing wrong with coring, so long as the builder & buyer are both satisfied. Nothing wrong with not coring, so long as builder & buyer are both satisfied.

Pros of coring are consistency of hit from cue to cue, which I find easy enough to do without coring. Next is stability, less likeliness of warpage, which I find easy enough to do without coring. Easier method of controlling weight, especially with heavy woods, and again I do it without coring. That's about it. It's not right, not wrong, just different strokes for different folks. We all have our own methods & those methods are chosen because it works for us.

My freind, Wes Hunter, and myself live in the same area & share many materials, ideas, techniques, etc. He builds his cues with cored forearms & cored handles, using fantastic wood as cores. His cues hit superb & are second to none in quality. I, on the other hand, do not core anything except burls. I also build what I feel are very nice cues that play top notch. Aside from coring, he & I use the same materials such as woods & phenolics. The butts of our cues are dimensionally very similar with mine being .850"x1.25" & his being .845"x1.25". Our shaft tapers are different but we use the same shaft wood. Our ferrule install technique is different but we use the same material. Our cues both come out solid & stable players with slight playability & feel differences due to shaft taper & tip choice. Again, he cores & I do not. That's a pretty close comparison of two cues with different core beleifs, and both cues are good cues.

In the end, it comes down to the builder's beleifs & preferences. The end result is a cue that is solid & sound, no matter which method was used to construct it. If it's well built, it's well built. The cueball won't know the difference in how it was constructed. You as a player likely will not know the difference, and if you do it is not a difference that defines good or bad.

I could go on about why I don't core my cues, but there's no reason to. My personal feelings & beleifs mean little or nothing when two guys match up & one has my cue & the other has Wes' cue. Both are good cues, one cored & one not, so it'll be the better player that wins & not the cue. I often play one hole with Wes & the results are mixed, with each of us winning and losing by how we play. I can & have played well with his cored cues. So my point of this rambling is that there are no true pros or cons to coring, in my opinion. It falls into the matter of the builder's preference of construction techniques. But matters nothing when the tip touches the cueball.
 
I've alway wonder how much the butt of a cue attribute to the playability of the cue but somehow I think the 10% is on the low side. I've actually matched a predator 314-2 shaft to a really cheap cuetec and to my amazement..it play like a 5K predator.

However, having said that I also have amazing quality shaft that played solid on the original butt and the hit changed when it was added on another butt. I would bet the weight of the butt and taper has a lot to do with it as well. Anyway, just personally think is more than 10%. Definitely agreed that the tips, ferrule and shaft quality make up most of %. When you have good shafts, you'll always have a good cues!! Maybe that's why, all the higher end cues focus so much on the quality of the shafts. Maybe, only a full splice butt add more to the playability of the cues than the joined one.

Regards,
Duc.
 
Cuemaster98 said:
I've alway wonder how much the butt of a cue attribute to the playability of the cue but somehow I think the 10% is on the low side. I've actually matched a predator 314-2 shaft to a really cheap cuetec and to my amazement..it play like a 5K predator.

However, having said that I also have amazing quality shaft that played solid on the original butt and the hit changed when it was added on another butt. I would bet the weight of the butt and taper has a lot to do with it as well. Anyway, just personally think is more than 10%. Definitely agreed that the tips, ferrule and shaft quality make up most of %. When you have good shafts, you'll always have a good cues!! Maybe that's why, all the higher end cues focus so much on the quality of the shafts. Maybe, only a full splice butt add more to the playability of the cues than the joined one.

Regards,
Duc.

Maybe you are influenced by having 1500 of them for sale? :)

In my opinion any well made cue hits fine regardless of the splice.
 
Cuemaster98 said:
Maybe, only a full splice butt add more to the playability of the cues than the joined one.

Regards,
Duc.

Ummm .. your opinion wouldn't be biased, by any chance, since you sell full spliced blanks?

:)
 
Arnot Wadsworth said:
Maybe you are influenced by having 1500 of them for sale? :)

In my opinion any well made cue hits fine regardless of the splice.
Ditto.
A solidly constructed butt with quality woods, adhesive and materials, will hit fine .
 
Build two butts, one of solid ebony & one of solid maple. Make them both weigh 15oz. & give them one 4.0oz. shaft to share, having a 19" assembled balance point with either butt. Paint both butts solid blue, so nobody can visually see a difference. I'd bet any non-skilled idiot could hit balls with both combinations & give you an essay on the differences in feel & performance. So would a solid B player know the difference? Hell yes, in a heart beat. Does the butt matter more than 10%? Without any logical doubt.

Harmonics & tonal qualities aside, the raw performance of a cue is determined by flexual strength, linear strength and memory. Only half of the cue's overall strength & memory relies on the shaft. Aside from being the part of the cue that contacts the ball, the shaft is no more important than the butt. They serve different purposes but equally important purposes.
 
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Actually, I will have more full splices in my inventory including ebony and amboyna burl forearm one coming to me :) LoL....No I'm not biased because I sell and love full splice blanks and cues. Hmm..hold on...maybe I am! Lol

Anyway, just thought logically that since the flow of energy to the hand is not restricted by any other variable than the type of wood, it's grain and type of wraps that it would have an effect on the playability. I'm sure you guys are more knowledgeable on the matter but I would imagine that due to the difference in structure that it's logical to conclude that they will be different. Good or Bad may not be the answer....maybe just different.

Regards,
Duc.
 
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Anyway, just thought logically that since the flow of energy to the hand is not restricted by any other variable than the wood grain and type of wraps that it would have an effect on the playability. I'm sure you guys are more knowledgeable on the matter but I would imagine that due to the difference in structure that it's logical to conclude that they will different. Good or Bad may not be the answer....maybe just different.
__________________

You mean as opposed to sectional butts?
Mated right with quality epoxy, the same woods on fullsplice compared to a sectional butt wouldn't hit any better imo.
In fact, it can be argued that the sectional butt should hit better because the two sections are being compressed together by the A-joint bolt.
 
JoeyInCali said:
it can be argued that the sectional butt should hit better because the two sections are being compressed together by the A-joint bolt.

You use "A" joint bolts? What's that?
 
JoeyInCali said:
I use wood toggle bolts.:D
Hmm, i'll have to try that. I have been clamping the two peices together butt to butt until glue dries. Never thought of screwing them together before.....could actually be on to something here.
 
Ahh...so compression is the secret!!! not the phenolic...no wonder the paul mottey that was cut at the join only show the buzz ring...when I thought it was the a piece of phenolic used to dampen the vibration. Cool!! will give that a try on one of my short splice.
I've try joining one of my short splice to the handle by boring a hole in forearm and shove the tendon on the handle into the splice with a ring of phenolic. It seem fine..but don't know how it hit yet.


Regards,
Duc.
 
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Cuemaster98 said:
Anyway, just thought logically that since the flow of energy to the hand is not restricted by any other variable than the type of wood, it's grain and type of wraps that it would have an effect on the playability. I'm sure you guys are more knowledgeable on the matter but I would imagine that due to the difference in structure that it's logical to conclude that they will be different. Good or Bad may not be the answer....maybe just different.

Regards,
Duc.

I'm no expert by any means (I'm more close to non-skilled idiot) but I recently received a ebony forearm/purpleheart full spliced sneaky and African Blackwood forearm/boise de rose handle "sectional" cue. Both from same budding cuemaker, masonh.

My expectation was same as yo that full spliced sneaky would play better. But I was shocked to find out how well "sectional" cue played in comparison to the full spliced cue. It was much stiffer hit with great feedback whereas full spliced sneaky had more softer hit. Of two cues, my personal preference is the "sectional" cue. Of course, I don't know if I'm comparing apples to orange since "sectional" cue was built fully by Mason where as full spliced cue was made from the blank and difference in wood material.

Now I can't wait until I get to feel what Texas Ebony forearm cue feels like ... but this one is not from Mason :D
 
Cuemaster98 said:
Ahh...so compression is the secret!!! not the phenolic...no wonder the paul mottey that was cut at the join only show the buzz ring...when I thought it was the a piece of phenolic used to dampen the vibration. Cool!! will give that a try on one of my short splice.

Regards,
Duc.
Why would the phenolic there dampen the vibration?
If he wanted to do that, he'd have used nylon.
 
uncored.i understand some guys coring with laminated Maple or Purpleheart or something else very stable,but it seems that lots of cuemakers take a very stable wood such as some of the more common Rosewoods and core them with the less stable straigth grain Maple.

i know some guys say they core for weight,but it really isn't difficult to make an Ebony cue weight 19oz without coring,so i am not sure i undersatnd that argument either.

as for getting the same hit,i do think this has some merit,but not totally true either.

coring woods like burls and Olivewood and other unstable woods though is a necessity,imo.

now i am curious to what wood Wes cores his cues with?
 
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