Coring to straighten cue?

[Lexicologist71]

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing how this can be fixed by coring. If the wood is warped, and the hole is straight, won't the wood still be crooked on the outside? Are you somehow forcing the wood back into alignment prior to cutting the hole? Could someone please fill me in as to how this procedure is performed?

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing how this can be fixed by coring. If the wood is warped, and the hole is straight, won't the wood still be crooked on the outside? Are you somehow forcing the wood back into alignment prior to cutting the hole? Could someone please fill me in as to how this procedure is performed?

It would be very difficult without changing the dimensions of the outside diameter of the forearm.
Unless you have the formula to steam the forearm, bend it back straight, poke a hole through it and get your dowel glued back in before it has a chance to move. Seems to me it would be easier to just build a new.

 

[icem3n]

No plans to sell it... especially not at a bargain price like $1200.

I will try to check it again to see where the problem is,, maybe I can get pics or video and post a link.

Q - Is there a sure way to tell if it is forearm, A joint or handle without having a lathe?
This closest cuemaker to me is 1.5hrs. I would not let him do anything other than chuck it up to find the problem.

The first few inches near the joint of a SW forearm normally exibit taper roll. The first few inches wouldn't touch the table when roll on it. The cue should look straight when sighting from butt end to tip. You should have a straight cue since you took care of it.

 

[DRPoolshooter]

Me Too

I am missing something as well.
I am having a hard time figuring out how coring can reliably fix this. If you were to core the forearm, then you would have a cored and warped cue. Then, as mentioned, to get it straight you would have to change the dimensions of the outside diameter of the forearm. Doing this (as I see it) may get it straight, but you would then have a smaller diameter forearm and the points would not line up.
The formula for steaming the forearm - umm, yeah, easier to just build a new cue - for all the reasons mentioned plus the fact that you are deliberately putting stress INTO the cue and hoping it will not warp again - or crack, or have glue failure, etc.

It would be very difficult without changing the dimensions of the outside diameter of the forearm.
Unless you have the formula to steam the forearm, bend it back straight, poke a hole through it and get your dowel glued back in before it has a chance to move. Seems to me it would be easier to just build a new.

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing how this can be fixed by coring. If the wood is warped, and the hole is straight, won't the wood still be crooked on the outside? Are you somehow forcing the wood back into alignment prior to cutting the hole? Could someone please fill me in as to how this procedure is performed?

 

[Murray Tucker]

Wood moves. A slight warp won't make you miss......Hell a large one probably won't either. Just have a competent repair person face the joint and shoot with it.

 

[scdiveteam]

The first few inches near the joint of a SW forearm normally exibit taper roll. The first few inches wouldn't touch the table when roll on it. The cue should look straight when sighting from butt end to tip. You should have a straight cue since you took care of it.

Hi,

Not trying to bust balls but when the cue is cut between centers the X-Axis should be completely concentric to the OD of the changing linear taper geometry. Unless however there is a machine error. I have seen this what you call a taper roll on these cues also. So tell me, whats going on with the cues that don't roll funny at the nose and what is going on with the pin concentricity when this table roll occurs a few inches back from the joint.

Any cue maker who builds a cue would not allow this condition to continue during subsequent passes and finish a cue like that. When something is concentric that is what it is. When something is eccentric to the X my bet is it happened after the cue went out into the world and left the shop.

If a nose has a roll when rolled there is a warp in the cue. I realize that people who pay a lot of money for a cue might not want to commit in there mind that they have a white elephant on their hands, but the fact is that they do.

I have heard the urban legend before in the pool hall about the front bobbing is ok because there is some kind of secret going on with a compound butt taper. It's not. It is only rationalization because their prize possession is damaged goods. Warped cues suck and you can't make an logical argument otherwise without saying geometry and physics are flawed.

The best thing to do with a warped cue is to get another cue unless it does not bother you and you can accept playing with a thing like that. There are many people who would buy a Southwest with a bump because they drink the cool aid as described above. This was the main reason I suggested to Rick to sell his cue instead of trying to fix it because there are people out there that would buy this cue knowing it has a warp if the shafts are straight. To each their own. :shrug: Go Figure.

Just my opinion,

Rick G

 

[carguy]

Where lies the mystery?

Wood moves. A slight warp won't make you miss......Hell a large one probably won't either. Just have a competent repair person face the joint and shoot with it.

Murray, truer words were never spoken. What I would do with a slightly warped cue is play pool with it. Facing the joint will help, so I fail to see the big problem. We're talking about wood here. Geez...get on with it...play pool!

Also, Rick's point is perfectly clear...why do people not get this? Everything is either concentric to the center line or not. If not, there is a perfectly good term that describes it, might as well use it: warped, and it has NOTHING to do with the type of taper.

I have no idea why I see soooo many high-end production cues like SouthWest (flame away guys!)warp, but they are out there for all to see; anyone who does repairs or hangs out a lot in a pool hall for that matter has seen them.


Robin

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

No plans to sell it... especially not at a bargain price like $1200.

I will try to check it again to see where the problem is,, maybe I can get pics or video and post a link.

Q - Is there a sure way to tell if it is forearm, A joint or handle without having a lathe?
This closest cuemaker to me is 1.5hrs. I would not let him do anything other than chuck it up to find the problem.

Use a 12 inch straight edge and put it against the forearm on all the points around it. This may give you a visual of any not so straight areas on the fore.

So what's the word on the forearm straightness? Did you have chance to check it yet?

 

[whammo57]

warp 10

Ok... I am going out on a limb here. So don't be too mean to me.

We all have read about or seen warped cues. Honestly I have not seen a production cue, Lucasi, Meucci, or other China cue that has warped. Cored sections or full cues are not usually talked about for warping. Maybe it is because I just haven't looked hard and long enough.

What I have seen is 2 cues that warped and they were made by cue builders with well known names that command a healthy price. Both were warped where all the talk is about..... the forearm - close to the joint.

We have all read about the warped (described many other names) cues that seem to follow certain cue builders.

Is this happening because of user abuse, a change in humidity between the place of construction and the user's home, wood that is not seasoned properly, or construction technique???

I read where some cue builders like solid wood and not cored to "get the hit of the specific wood." These usually use an A joint construction technique that appears solid but sometimes is the problem.

It has been brought up before -------- if a new cue builder had a cue that warped, he would be out of business tomorrow, But if a big name has a few cues that warp, it is accepted as .... "it is just wood" or "it is a taper roll"

SOOOO after all this drivel, why keep building cues and charging high prices when we all know they have a chance of warping?????

Why not change construction techniques to something that has less chance of going bumpy?

What am I missing??

Kim

 

[carguy]

What are you missing?

You are missing the fact that over the course of the last...I don't know what... 50 years? 60 years? more?, people have been making un-cored cues with A-joints successfully. This suggests to me that there might be something good about the technique. And, generally speaking, they stay straight.

But as in most things in life, patience is rewarded. As production volume increases, the time frame of building each cue starts getting compressed. Compromises get made. If I had a huge long waiting list for my cues I know I would feel the pressure and, perhaps, anticipate the profits. Hopefully I would do nothing too different from what I do now, and maintain the same standards and time frames in my process.

Dave Barenbrugge has the right plan here: check the cue with a straight edge and find what is wrong. Speculation could go on forever.

I'm curious to find out whether the A-joint has moved or whether the forearm has warped. Sight-unseen, I'd say it's even money.

Having said that, if your main goal is to keep the cue and play pool with it, I guess it is important to establish your own standard for straightness. Myself, a small warp does not affect my game.

A cored cue can probably be made quicker but it means nothing to me. I am the holdup, not the wood.

These days, I core nearly everything. If I want the specific hit a specific wood gives, I core it with the same wood. I have very good success with this. I doubt my cues will warp any time soon. Fanatic nutball that I am, I even core full spliced blanks.

Robin

 

[Craig Fales]

The first few inches near the joint of a SW forearm normally exibit taper roll. The first few inches wouldn't touch the table when roll on it. The cue should look straight when sighting from butt end to tip. You should have a straight cue since you took care of it.

Taper roll is voodoo.

 

[cutter]

Ok... I am going out on a limb here. So don't be too mean to me.

We all have read about or seen warped cues. Honestly I have not seen a production cue, Lucasi, Meucci, or other China cue that has warped. Cored sections or full cues are not usually talked about for warping. Maybe it is because I just haven't looked hard and long enough.

What I have seen is 2 cues that warped and they were made by cue builders with well known names that command a healthy price. Both were warped where all the talk is about..... the forearm - close to the joint.

We have all read about the warped (described many other names) cues that seem to follow certain cue builders.

Is this happening because of user abuse, a change in humidity between the place of construction and the user's home, wood that is not seasoned properly, or construction technique???

I read where some cue builders like solid wood and not cored to "get the hit of the specific wood." These usually use an A joint construction technique that appears solid but sometimes is the problem.

It has been brought up before -------- if a new cue builder had a cue that warped, he would be out of business tomorrow, But if a big name has a few cues that warp, it is accepted as .... "it is just wood" or "it is a taper roll"

SOOOO after all this drivel, why keep building cues and charging high prices when we all know they have a chance of warping?????

Why not change construction techniques to something that has less chance of going bumpy?

What am I missing??

Kim

Not sure where you are looking at cues, but I've seen all the above mentioned cues that have warped. And I'm sure as they get older, there will be more of them warp.
And yes, I have seen cored cues that could be used as ski's. I even saw a fiberglass cue that warped. Seen Gus, Barry and Georges that have moved. Same with Paradise, Palmer and Martin. Wood is wood, and it will do what it wants to, especially with changing environments. I have a friend that has a very early Titleist snooker cue, one piece about 8mm at the tip, and the sucker is arrow straight. Pretty much bare wood, and he drags it from his house to the hall to play. You never know, all you can do is use all your knowledge to make your cues as warp resistant as possible.

 

[icem3n]

Hi,
Not trying to bust balls but when the cue is cut between centers the X-Axis should be completely concentric to the OD of the changing linear taper geometry. Unless however there is a machine error. I have seen this what you call a taper roll on these cues also. So tell me, whats going on with the cues that don't roll funny at the nose and what is going on with the pin concentricity when this table roll occurs a few inches back from the joint.

I guess they handplane them the old fashion way. :wink:

I know they are cuemakers that still practise this.

Any cue maker who builds a cue would not allow this condition to continue during subsequent passes and finish a cue like that. When something is concentric that is what it is. When something is eccentric to the X my bet is it happened after the cue went out into the world and left the shop.

If it is concentric, it won't wobble?

Real SW enthusiast knows all the 250+ cues per year from SW that went out have rolls(bumps/swells) to the forearms.

I have heard the urban legend before in the pool hall about the front bobbing is ok because there is some kind of secret going on with a compound butt taper. It's not. It is only rationalization because their prize possession is damaged goods. Warped cues suck and you can't make an logical argument otherwise without saying geometry and physics are flawed.

Some believe compound taper make the cue more powerful and effortless to play certain shots.

 

[ChampionsRepair]

If it is concentric, it won't wobble?

That is correct. If it is concentric it will not wobble.

Real SW enthusiast knows all the 250+ cues per year from SW that went out have rolls(bumps/swells) to the forearms.

Perhaps you should speak for yourself as your post implies that "real" Southwest Cue enthusiasts are ignorant and "all" Southwest Cues are poorly made. And finding "any" other Southwest Cue enthusiast that agrees with those implications might not be very easy.

And lastly from the rules...

Although anyone can participate in the thread’s discussions and ask questions, it should primarily be the experienced cuemakers who provide the answers. It might be appropriate for non-cuemakers to give some input on occasions. But that should be the exception instead of the norm.

 

[scdiveteam]

I guess they handplane them the old fashion way. :wink:

I know they are cuemakers that still practise this.



If it is concentric, it won't wobble?

Real SW enthusiast knows all the 250+ cues per year from SW that went out have rolls(bumps/swells) to the forearms.



Some believe compound taper make the cue more powerful and effortless to play certain shots.

Hey Ice,

First off if you think that 250 SW Cues are leaving their shop that way a year is crazy and you must be taking LSD or something. They would be out of business fast.................. "unless Obama is their spokesman". :nanner:

What we are talking about here is one guy who has a bad cue and wants to know what to do with it.

Have some more of that "SW Enthusiast Cool Aid" your drinking because your in hook, line and sinker my freind.:joyful:

People who believe in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy are not bad people, they are children.

I will pray for you.:angel:

Rick

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

All I want to know is the forearm straight on the OP's cue?
With all the other rederick going on in this thread he seems MIA now?

 

[JoeyInCali]

Hey Ice,

First off if you think that 250 SW Cues are leaving their shop that way a year is crazy and you must be taking LSD or something. They would be out of business fast.................. "unless Obama is their spokesman". :nanner:

What we are talking about here is one guy who has a bad cue and wants to know what to do with it.

Have some more of that "SW Enthusiast Cool Aid" your drinking because your in hook, line and sinker my freind.:joyful:

People who believe in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy are not bad people, they are children.

I will pray for you.:angel:

Rick

Take it easy Rick.
You might be shocked to know, when SW cues reach Taiwan, Singapore and Japan, SW enthusiasts there accept the fact there that SW's will not roll perfectly like a single taper .840"-1.250" variety cue,
SW's true parabolic design imho is susceptible to showing a lift by the joint area. I'm not going to argue this even.
It has a skinny joint size at .835" and a fat A-joint on a curve. That joint does not hug the cloth when rolled. Any swelling in the handle area ( and most SW's have linen wrap even ), that joint will lift if rolled.
That being said, Dave asked after all these rhetoric, the thread strarter has disappeared.

 

[Michael Webb]

It has a skinny joint size at .835" .

.827, just saying

 

[JoeyInCali]

.827, just saying

Ouch!
Thanks Mike.
Happy New Year.

 

[icem3n]

Take it easy Rick.
You might be shocked to know, when SW cues reach Taiwan, Singapore and Japan, SW enthusiasts there accept the fact there that SW's will not roll perfectly like a single taper .840"-1.250" variety cue,
SW's true parabolic design imho is susceptible to showing a lift by the joint area. I'm not going to argue this even.
It has a skinny joint size at .835" and a fat A-joint on a curve. That joint does not hug the cloth when rolled. Any swelling in the handle area ( and most SW's have linen wrap even ), that joint will lift if rolled.
That being said, Dave asked after all these rhetoric, the thread strarter has disappeared.

Thanks. You have explained it better than I did.