could whoever been ripped off by showman cues post here

ElCorazonFrio said:
You are supporting him by coming on and saying things about how he'll get his cue back and it'll be perfect.

How does that help the OP get the cue back?

Thanks for calling Mr. Showman. If you would have simply written that, I would have liked it much better.

It is a simple thing, when things go wrong you don't tell them how much better they are going to be afterward. When a friend gets served with divorce papers, you don't tell him how much happier he'll be after...even if he is going to be happier.

Essentially what you told the OP with your post is that it's all going to be awesome...when in fact it never will.

If this were done with me, I would never be able to separate the cue from the memory of this incident. I would get the cue I loved back, see every flaw and hate the cue. Maybe that is just me.

People can be so understanding that it is amazing. Business people should learn from this. If the cuemaker in question had quoted a realistic time, the OP wouldn't be angry. If the cuemaker had called the OP when the original date came and explained that it would be longer, the OP probably wouldn't have been angry.

But, the fact is that the cuemaker in question didn't do that. He avoided contact. He did, in the eyes of the law (regardless of what Alstl thinks) steal the cue. He had this man's money and possession past when he agreed to have it and then refuses to return it. That is theft.
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What does any of what you are talking about have to do with solving the problem?

I dont know who you are. I'm guessing by join date and post count the account is a retread or second account. So while your in depth analysis is fascinating it provides not one single new thing to the discussion. Everyone I have seen post, including John, agrees he is in the wrong. Why you and others feel the need to continuously keep making the case for him being wrong says more about you than John.

The OP will get his cue back. The work will be perfect and I'm sure he will have no problem flipping it at all. It sucks it took this long and he had to go through all this but he came out in public about it to force a resolution. Thats whats going on now. Why you give any kind of shit about what I say or do is beyond me.
 
JCIN said:
What does any of what you are talking about have to do with solving the problem?

I dont know who you are. I'm guessing by join date and post count the account is a retread or second account. So while your in depth analysis is fascinating it provides not one single new thing to the discussion. Everyone I have seen post, including John, agrees he is in the wrong. Why you and others feel the need to continuously keep making the case for him being wrong says more about you than John.

The OP will get his cue back. The work will be perfect and I'm sure he will have no problem flipping it at all. It sucks it took this long and he had to go through all this but he came out in public about it to force a resolution. Thats whats going on now. Why you give any kind of shit about what I say or do is beyond me.
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And the same could be said about you caring about what I say. Yet here you are responding to me.

I think it does add to the discussion...more than your comments about how he is going to get a 'perfect' cue back.

In this discussion your comment about getting the cue back and it being perfect is basically trying to marginalize the whole conversation...like all of a sudden it's going to be okay. I don't think anyone should ever think that just because what was promised might actually be delivered that things are okay. They aren't.

Tho you are too arrogant to see it, I offered constructive advice. If Mr. Showman had called the OP and kept in contact, he wouldn't have ever seen this because the OP has proven himself to be a reasonable person.

Maybe in the future other cuemakers will learn from this example.

Thanks for the insinuation that I am either a tire (retread? WTF?) or an alias of another account, I am neither. I'm just a nobody in the pool world, someone who lurked for a long time, someone who never bought any TAR streams, can't stand watching pool, but enjoy talking about it and playing it. You don't know who I am because I am of no account.
 
RMS said:
I sat on my hands and didn't say anything, throughout this whole mess.

Now, I must speak up.

Your request is:
could whoever been ripped off by showman cues post here

I say we all have.
What a drama filled circus.
Threads are all over the board like some kind of rash.

I don't want to make enemies here, rather friends than enemies.
The spirit of the original thread was too sharp. That is why a mod stepped in.
This forums primary focus is pool playing.
I know forums, really well. These mods aren't anywhere close to nazis.
They basically sit back, with a bucket of water next to them, and wait for a fire. Outside of that, it's all "Free Speech".

The members here are "blessed" with good mods that donate tons of time with little or no reward, and rarely if ever any thanks.

As for the OP...........

We are all grown men here.
We all know that is very often a Bad idea to make decisions when we are upset.
"A good friend of mine beat a man to death because the guy stuck a finger in his nose".

When it comes to forums. Sometimes it's best to write, or type out, what you intend to post. Wait until the next day and read it again.
And remember, "the whole world will be able to view what you posted"

Can I relate to the OP's frustration? "Hell yes in spades!"
Can I relate to Mr. Showman, yes I honestly can.

This would have very likely been enough.........

Showman

I am suffering through a very long delay getting a unit back from Showman, and he's not returning my calls.
Anyone here know if he has moved or going through some health problems?

Then let things develop from there, but maintain your integrity.

The above example has, how do you say,..... less teeth in it.


The guy posting this gave a bicycle to a guy for some minor repair "15 years ago",... and I still haven't seen hide nor hair of it.

The guy posting this gave a Crossman pellet pistol to a guy to install new seals "18 years ago",.... and still no sign of it.

Same guy by the way

Maybe he just needs a little more time.

LOL
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Can someone translate this crap for me?

Scott
 
I think he got Greg for a Mini Van.

Greg said teach me to be nice. All he could do was eat it.
Nick :)
 
ElCorazonFrio said:
And the same could be said about you caring about what I say. Yet here you are responding to me.

I think it does add to the discussion...more than your comments about how he is going to get a 'perfect' cue back.

In this discussion your comment about getting the cue back and it being perfect is basically trying to marginalize the whole conversation...like all of a sudden it's going to be okay. I don't think anyone should ever think that just because what was promised might actually be delivered that things are okay. They aren't.

Tho you are too arrogant to see it, I offered constructive advice. If Mr. Showman had called the OP and kept in contact, he wouldn't have ever seen this because the OP has proven himself to be a reasonable person.

Maybe in the future other cuemakers will learn from this example.

Thanks for the insinuation that I am either a tire (retread? WTF?) or an alias of another account, I am neither. I'm just a nobody in the pool world, someone who lurked for a long time, someone who never bought any TAR streams, can't stand watching pool, but enjoy talking about it and playing it. You don't know who I am because I am of no account.
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Regarding the retread comment. You have about 600 posts in four months. Its unusual for a new member to be so prolific. If you dont see how that looks weird so be it.

Thank you for being the first one to voice the idea that cuemakers should practice good communication. I fully expect that from here on out thanks to your cutting edge idea things like this will cease to happen.

As far as me god forbid actually trying to inject some ray of positivity in this shit sandwich...guilty as charged. The OP wants his cue back. He is going to get his cue back. The work will be perfect. That doesnt make everything OK and nowhere did I say it did but it does get the OP his cue. Show me one time anywhere I said this wasnt a big deal or the OP shouldnt be super pissed? You can't. All I have tried to do is to help resolve the situation. But because I stated anything that wasnt joining in the dogpile you feel that means I am making light of the situation and that is just 100% bullshit.

Mike is handling this better than I would have. I want him to get his cue and find some measure of satisfaction if at all possible. You keep beating the horse.
 
JCIN said:
Regarding the retread comment. You have about 600 posts in four months. Its unusual for a new member to be so prolific. If you dont see how that looks weird so be it.

Thank you for being the first one to voice the idea that cuemakers should practice good communication. I fully expect that from here on out thanks to your cutting edge idea things like this will cease to happen.

As far as me god forbid actually trying to inject some ray of positivity in this shit sandwich...guilty as charged. The OP wants his cue back. He is going to get his cue back. The work will be perfect. That doesnt make everything OK and nowhere did I say it did but it does get the OP his cue. Show me one time anywhere I said this wasnt a big deal or the OP shouldnt be super pissed? You can't. All I have tried to do is to help resolve the situation. But because I stated anything that wasnt joining in the dogpile you feel that means I am making light of the situation and that is just 100% bullshit.

Mike is handling this better than I would have. I want him to get his cue and find some measure of satisfaction if at all possible. You keep beating the horse.
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I have no doubts of your intentions and I admire them. You took a hard stance by communicating with someone you value as a friend and telling him he was wrong. It says a lot of good things that a person would do that. You should be supportive of your friend...in private.

That said, you are a well known figure in the pool community and as such, your voice is very loud. When you publicly come out with positive comments about negative situations, it speaks to many people much more than a mere mudman like me.

Which is probably why I keep responding to you. I'm already hated on this board by many because of how I respond to situations. I'm no kindergarten teacher, I don't molly-coddle anyone, I'll never be a mother and I don't give kids a teet to suckle. I write to people how I expect people to write to me. If I eff up, I expect the backlash, it's been that way since I was a child.

I also suppose that your use of the word 'perfect' also riles me to no end. Stop saying perfect. Nothing is perfect and Mr. Showman's work (from the examples I've seen) certainly isn't. Nice, above average, maybe bordering on top-tier, but certainly not perfect.
 
All these posts should be deleted

As far as I can tell no one else has posted issues with showman.....
That's what the OP's thread is about.... Right?

Everyone thats works has skeletons in their closet. John is trying to fix this, we have no idea about his health, family or any other situation he could have going on. Hes a one man shop minor things to us like the Flu have a big impact on a man like him let alone anything serious. And if John finishes the cue soon the gentlemen will still get his cue back faster than if it went to court.

Yes i'm supporting Mr. Showman even though hes clearly wrong in the situation. NO ive never met him and No I don't have or have even ever held one of his cues.

Most matters can be resolved civilly through compromise this is what were seeing here kudos to both of you.:thumbup:
 
cuebuyer4u said:
As far as I can tell no one else has posted issues with showman.....
That's what the OP's thread is about.... Right?

Everyone thats works has skeletons in their closet. John is trying to fix this, we have no idea about his health, family or any other situation he could have going on. Hes a one man shop minor things to us like the Flu have a big impact on a man like him let alone anything serious. And if John finishes the cue soon the gentlemen will still get his cue back faster than if it went to court.

Yes i'm supporting Mr. Showman even though hes clearly wrong in the situation. NO ive never met him and No I don't have or have even ever held one of his cues.

Most matters can be resolved civilly through compromise this is what were seeing here kudos to both of you.:thumbup:
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No dog in this fight, but have you ever seen someone with the flu for over a year +? I think the op has shown tremendous restraint. Would I have posted up on board to try to resolve issue - prob not but that's another story.
 
:rolleyes:
cuebuyer4u said:
As far as I can tell no one else has posted issues with showman.....
That's what the OP's thread is about.... Right?

Everyone thats works has skeletons in their closet. John is trying to fix this, we have no idea about his health, family or any other situation he could have going on. Hes a one man shop minor things to us like the Flu have a big impact on a man like him let alone anything serious. And if John finishes the cue soon the gentlemen will still get his cue back faster than if it went to court.

Yes i'm supporting Mr. Showman even though hes clearly wrong in the situation. NO ive never met him and No I don't have or have even ever held one of his cues.

Most matters can be resolved civilly through compromise this is what were seeing here kudos to both of you.:thumbup:
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It's pretty evident you don't have the faintest idea what your talking about.

There are two groups on here that do. Both have extensive experience in the high end cue market. But, one of them are a group of major nuthuggers who will never admit to John's wrongdoings over the years no matter what he has done hoping they might get a cue or make a dollar on one of them. (they all still got and wear the Showman T-shirts ) Which I'll never understand.

And the others are people that tell the truth. John deserves no credit. He ruined his chance to be one of the top and make a lot of money because of lack of effort.

There are plenty of very top cuemakers who will do exactly what they say and make you an incredible cue..............examples are Joel Hercek, Ernie Gutierrez, Bob Manzino, Tony Sciannella, etc.
 
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Bavafongoul said:
John Showman finally showed up........and has the spine to face his accusers.........long overdue but way to go John...........

As far as John Showman, any of us can have our worlds turned upside down and shaken vigorously. Sometimes it takes a long time for things to settle down where you can regain control over your life and when you do get control again, all too often your life has permanently changed as a result of it.

We're not entitled to know what caused John to have issues with his customers......only his customers deserve to know any details........the only thing that matters is that John is willing, interested and prepared to make things right with his clients........you can't change history but you can pay more attention to the current state of affairs which John appears to be doing.

Mr. Showman, the fact that you are attempting to restore your reputation on the Forum impresses me a lot and I've admired your cue-making for years.....if it wasn't for California's pending AB-96 legislation, I'd be willing to trust you with my wallet if you do the right thing with your clients that have a gripe with you......it takes a big man to ask people to post their complaints for all to see.....again, not necessary......just want to see posts from your accusers saying things are now okay.....that's all that matters.

Matt B.

p.s. Mike, I think you have a gorgeous Showman cue........it's exactly the type Showman design I would want.
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And that my friends is "The rest of the story!"
 
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