Could Willie make the team?

were those WC:s the ones where the title holder only had to play one match?

it's true that pool was fairly popular, but also mainly a national affair. SVB went overseas and beat an international field of 256 players to win the world championship.
I order to get to the championship round, you had to win your way through a field of participants.
The field that Willie dominated included so many legendary names……just look at his domination.
Greenleaf won 20 world titles vs. Willie’s 19 (thank you Bob) but consecutively, Willie just kicked ass.
 
This discussion is best examined with a review of the top 10 jump shots from competition moments. Would those same shots have been possible by kicking at them?

I will get back to you.
Irrelevant unless they decided a match and more to the point the ability to execute jump shots is not a direct indicator of success to win sets. You need to rethink your position of this matter.
 
were those WC:s the ones where the title holder only had to play one match?

it's true that pool was fairly popular, but also mainly a national affair. SVB went overseas and beat an international field of 256 players to win the world championship.
Not to argue skill in differing eras but you do know that outside of the "challenge matches", you had city qualifiers, sectional qualifiers and national qualifiers to get to the round robin of the world championship?
 
Not to argue skill in differing eras but you do know that outside of the "challenge matches", you had city qualifiers, sectional qualifiers and national qualifiers to get to the round robin of the world championship?
The current champion was normally seeded into the world championship and did not have to play in the Nationals, I believe.

As far as the Nationals went, since all of this happened in the US, the US Nationals seem to have been just a qualifier to the Worlds. I don't think any other country was holding a Nationals at pool.
 
were those WC:s the ones where the title holder only had to play one match?

it's true that pool was fairly popular, but also mainly a national affair. SVB went overseas and beat an international field of 256 players to win the world championship.
Let’s see how many times he wins something like that 2 years, 5 years or (?) years consecutively.
How many streaks of winning noteworthy championships has any modern day player accomplished?

SVB is an amazing player that has the advantage of the best tables, cloth and pool cue technology.
I doubt he’ll ever dominate, or anyone else will ever dominate, pool like so many of the legends did.

When you examine the details closely, and the strength of the tournament fields, there are legendary
names in pool, not just Willie or Ralph, that’s achieved more than any modern day player will accomplish.
 
The current champion was normally seeded into the world championship and did not have to play in the Nationals, I believe.

As far as the Nationals went, since all of this happened in the US, the US Nationals seem to have been just a qualifier to the Worlds. I don't think any other country was holding a Nationals at pool.
Yes I am pretty sure you are correct.
 
I'm pretty sure I checked when I created the table from those tournament listings from Ursitti. So, in the absence of any other input I'll go with 19.
Yep, your right thanks for making me check, while making the list I missed out one of his wins in 1951, he won soo man times, I lots track! I'll correct it, that's right it was Greenleaf's 20 wins I turned to 19 due to one of the tournaments called the National Championship. Well it looks like they're tied for 19!
 
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The brain still works.

Mosconi in his prime has the talent to play with the modern players, But he's missing things that modern players have in their bag. He doesn't have a jump shot nor these four rail draw shots made famous by players like Effren. It's been 40 years since that video and route selection has evolved.
We've heard any number of stories about a world class player playing One Pocket against someone with more experience at the game, getting beat the first day or two, then ending up spotting the player multiple balls before they end up quitting. Pattern recognition and the ability to reverse engineer a shot they've only seen once is part of the world champion skillset. Mosconi would play a few months, and know as much about route selection as the very best in the game. Mosconi practiced what he needed to practice, obsessively, and there's no reason to expect that this would change if the main money game was 9 ball, versus straight pool.

Mosconi didn't exactly "like" pool in his prime, but it paid the bills. If 9 ball was the only thing that paid the bills, he'd absolutely master it.
 
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Based on Jump shots in 2019, unless Mosconi had a gift for masse curves, Mosconi wouldn't even hit these shots without a jump cue.

The Jump Defense is the gold standard against players of Mosconi's era. Would Mosconi be proficient at the Jump Stick? That is a point of controversy. Based on these table layouts it would take a DrDave level analysis to find a carom or kick. Is Mosconi as clever at table analysis as DrDave?

More questions than answers, but based on the table layouts, how would you kick or carom in those positions? It can't be done that is why a jump cue exists. Layout 3 seems the easiest to kick in.

jumps.png
 

Based on Jump shots in 2019, unless Mosconi had a gift for masse curves, Mosconi wouldn't even hit these shots without a jump cue.

The Jump Defense is the gold standard against players of Mosconi's era. Would Mosconi be proficient at the Jump Stick? That is a point of controversy. Based on these table layouts it would take a DrDave level analysis to find a carom or kick. Is Mosconi as clever at table analysis as DrDave?

More questions than answers, but based on the table layouts, how would you kick or carom in those positions? It can't be done that is why a jump cue exists. Layout 3 seems the easiest to kick in.

View attachment 674476
Again, your position has nothing to do with the actual overall question. 1. The "highlight reel" jump shots made by Europe did not help them win the cup in 2019. 2. Have you determined that the jump shots made here were the deciding factors in the matches in which they employed? 3. They are some likely kick safes for someone who has some proficiency in 3 cushion in these scenarios (not all). 4. Mosconi was as good at managing a table as Ben Hogan was at course management. 5. The side you are taking here is that superior jumping ability is a higher priority than shot making, cue ball control and strategy?
The question is not would Willie achieve exactly the same as he did then, like win 19 world championships against today's players. Probably not but I have no idea for sure and neither do you. It's would he be good enough to make Team USA in at this moment in time? This game is not just about pocketing balls. It's also about decision making. It's about control. Willie could take control of a table pretty well and keep it in his favor. It's also about performing under pressure and Willie did that pretty well too.
 
How many jump shots did Willie make in a tournament for his career?
Its a statistical fact. Local bangers make more jump shots in a night, then his career.
The question you really need to ask yourself is how many times would Willie ever need to play a jump shot?

His runs over a 100 balls was not uncommon and his game was straight pool. Unless the game was on the
line and he didn’t have any possibility of playing a smart safety, which all top pros did in straight pool when
faced with a difficult shot, why in heavens sake would Willie want, or need, to play a jump shot? OMG, the
man was capable of high runs anytime. In his first tournament win, he ran 100 or more balls every 4th game.

Willie didn’t need a jump shot but when you stroke the cue ball like Willie did, his would have been a 3 pointer.
 

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Based on Jump shots in 2019, unless Mosconi had a gift for masse curves, Mosconi wouldn't even hit these shots without a jump cue.

The Jump Defense is the gold standard against players of Mosconi's era. Would Mosconi be proficient at the Jump Stick? That is a point of controversy. Based on these table layouts it would take a DrDave level analysis to find a carom or kick. Is Mosconi as clever at table analysis as DrDave?

More questions than answers, but based on the table layouts, how would you kick or carom in those positions? It can't be done that is why a jump cue exists. Layout 3 seems the easiest to kick in.

View attachment 674476
You’re really revealing your lack of creativity, or knowledge of rail kick shots, especially the Diamond system,
when you make statements like Willie couldn’t even hit these shots (presuming you meant object ball contact)
without a jump cue. I can’t play a jump shot. People that personally know me understand why. I’m right handed
and have had 4 rotator cuff surgeries to my right shoulder involving complex surgeries that all failed. I have been
referred to a specialist for a total reverse shoulder arthroplasty. The last jump shot I played was in 2010 and it
just ain’t gonna happen again. But I’m a good 3 cushion player and possess a very good understanding of the
Diamond system. All in all, I know more about using the rails and cue ball than most players. But what I know
is but a fraction of what Willie Mosconi knew. And I’d have very little problem kicking & hitting that object ball.
 
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well i can tell from real life mosconi ran racks of 9 ball every time it was open. those days they played shoot out or try to hit it. so little kicking or no jumping. and he could masse as good as anyone alive.
and he was past his prime somewhat. straight pool, and like lassiter he never would actually miss a shot he got to play any position for.

he jumped balls in exhibitions with his regular stick which few top pros can even do well. he played billiards and ran many 5's or better on the slow cloth.

sure if he had to go straight out and play without a warm up on todays tournaments he might not finish in the top ten. but give him a month and why not and he would be one of the favorites to win every time.

and he was not a nice person in general. especially to other pool players, or when he was being bested in anything. and i didint like him but acknowledge him being the best of all time during his time for sure. and maybe now as well. see he was consistent and didnt steam or miss any of those shots you see the best miss.
i asked steve miserak once if he thought he could beat him when mosconi was at his best. steve said no way.
 
Willie Mosconi would be a world class player in any era
I agree! Different culture, equipment, etc., make ultimate comparisons between vastly different eras nonsensical. I'm fortunate in that I was able to meet Willie later in his life and play a game of 8-ball on a bar table with him at the Ritchie Florence 1983 Ceasar's Tahoe tournament (could have been 1984 possibly). He is an American legend in pocket billiards.
 
There is not a championship caliber straght pool player in the past 50 years that is "also" not a championship caliber 9 ball player. The other way around is not true, however. When the professional game switched from straight pool to 9 ball, Sigel, Rempe, Mizerak, etc, were the top 14.1 players, and they were also the top 9 ball players. Straight pool is a harder game. If you excel at it, you will excel at any pocket billiards game. Perhaps the one exception is bank pool.

The era does not even matter in Willie's case, because besides tournament wins, which is relative performance, we have absolute performance of balls made. By all accounts of people who saw him in person, he ran 100 and out in every single exhibition. Would you bet money Shaw or Thorston could do that in every room around the country on command? By my logic, if Mosconi is a better straight pool player than Shaw or Thorston, he'd also beat them in 9 ball.
 
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