Could You Train Yourself?

[easy-e]

I think you have to practice drills to get better. I see people playing others thinking they are practicing but they don’t improve. Why? They are playing to win so they rely on their strengths. If they miss a shot they don’t get an opportunity to redo it to improve.

I often lose to players in practice ga,es because I experiment with shots. I try shots that I am weak at to improve them in a game setting. Drills alone aren’t enough but neither is just playing to win.

I certainly see the benefits of practicing drills, but I don't think they're necessary to improve. I have never practiced drills in my life. I don't even have the patience to set one up:grin:. I've improved greatly on my own through tournament play, matching up for cheap money, and HAMB.

 

[Poolplaya9]

I was thinking more of a Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland level player who from a young age just picked up a cue and seemed to have natural aptitude for the game and rose to prominent heights.

At that level of player 95+% got there without coaching too. Which brings us full circle to the fact that most great players, however you want to define it, got there without coaching. I find it hard to see how someone reaches the conclusion that most players need a coach to get good, when most who have actually gotten good didn't have or need one. Again, not saying that good coaching won't shorten the learning curve (although there is as much or more bad coaching out there than good) but it absolutely isn't necessary for most people if they have the desire and are willing to put in a little effort.

 

[easy-e]

Probably not.

You can only teach yourself what you know.

randyg

Are you implying that someone is incapable of learning something on their own? If they are, then there is no limit to what they can eventually "know" and teach themselves.

 

[easy-e]

What would the motivation possibly be? If you are playing better players, you shouldn't win, right?

If you shouldn't win, you have accepted that you are parting with your money, right?

If you accept that you are parting with your money, you are simply paying someone to play with you, right?

I fail to find that more helpful than actual instruction.

Conversely, if you are playing someone at nearly your own level, you might be feeling some pressure to perform because you have a chance at winning. I don't need the money motivation, in fact, I usually underperform because I make more money than almost every other player I know, so I feel guilty about taking their money.

I am internally motivated to become better. The external factors don't help me. I know others like me.

The point is that there are multiple paths. When you say, '...the only way...', I have to call BS.

If you give yourself zero chance of winning, then you're doing it wrong. Maybe you need help on the mental game if you make games that you KNOW you're going to lose. I agree with you that is not helpful.

 

[easy-e]

I don't think just playing with better players can help you or just gambling can help you. I played against some very good players, up to Jayson Shaw, only time I learned was when they explained something to me. You don't learn much watching them shoot table length off the rail shots going 3 rails for shape. Seeing something done does not equal being able to do it. And you can see it done at anytime in the hundreds of videos out there. I've listened to many lessons my son has had with pro players, as well as clinics they put out. In 90% of the cases they explained what I already knew, and the other 10% were things that were not new to me just things I have not bothered to learn like kicking systems. What they can do that I can't is execute the tough stuff a lot more often than I can. That takes practice and mechanics, not just playing with better players or putting money up in a game.

If you play with better players, you need to actually be able to take something from that session. In most cases, that will be just the fact that they are better.

You may be missing the point. The wager needs to be enough for you to give it your very best effort. To feel the pressure. I find it almost impossible to play my best without pressure or some kind of motivation. Remember how you said you don't play your best in league play? Maybe you would with more incentive.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I say NO WAY. You can not gain new skills without help. You could go up one level but you would level out.

My friends say though trial and error you would always get better.

What say you all? Thoughts...?

What you're talking about is an unmotivated pastime player. He doesn't want to get better. If he has been playing for 10 years, he has probably reached his final plateau to be followed by a decline as his physical condition starts to deteriorate. Maybe he'll improve over the next 10 years to a 4.01 or maybe not.

As for figuring stuff out on your own, it is possible but it's really hard. Few people have the analytical skills to understand unassisted why they missed a particular shot or position. Also, it's likely that the player has major problems with his fundamentals. How do those get fixed?

 

[PoppaSaun]

If you give yourself zero chance of winning, then you're doing it wrong. Maybe you need help on the mental game if you make games that you KNOW you're going to lose. I agree with you that is not helpful.

My point was that too many people advocate gambling with the best player they can find. Me having a chance playing SVB would require such a stupid spot that it would eventually come down only to luck for either of us. I can't imagine learning much from that.

All I would really learn from that is how to negotiate a spot in my favor. No thanks.

I also hate handicaps. I hate spots. But, then, I hate playing for money, so it all evens out.

I also hate playing most people.

 

[deanoc]

i am living proof
that it is hard to get better

 

[easy-e]

My point was that too many people advocate gambling with the best player they can find. Me having a chance playing SVB would require such a stupid spot that it would eventually come down only to luck for either of us. I can't imagine learning much from that.

All I would really learn from that is how to negotiate a spot in my favor. No thanks.

I also hate handicaps. I hate spots. But, then, I hate playing for money, so it all evens out.

I also hate playing most people.

I agree with everything you said. My sweet spot is playing a guy that is two balls better than me for something cheap. If I can get a small spot I'd take it. I want to give myself a chance to win, and I will only do it if it means a lot to me.

 

[goettlicher]

Are you implying that someone is incapable of learning something on their own? If they are, then there is no limit to what they can eventually "know" and teach themselves.

That's not the rules that were outlined.

With the right tools we can teach ourselves.

Without more knowledge......

randyg

 

[GoldCrown]

i am living proof
that it is hard to get better

As for myself I progress like a snail with airbrakes. But I move forward. Slow beats stop.