Counterfeit Cue alert from Joss Custom Cues

manwon

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
I recently recieved this email from Joss Cues thought I would pass it along.


Joss Cues
Important
News Letter
COUNTERFEIT CUE ALERT

To all our friends who have asked to be included in the Joss newsletter we would like to recommend that you read the article coming out in the May issue of the Pool and Billiard Magazine. They have done a great expose about the top brand cues made in the USA that have been counterfeited in China. If you would like to read the complete article, see color pictures and learn how to protect yourself from these unscrupulous counterfeiters get the May issue of Pool and Billiard Magazine; click on the link below to subscribe or read the article online.

Pool & Billiards

Joss Cues thanks you for your continued support of our products and others Made in the USA!

Regards,

Dan Janes

Joss Cues


Take care
 
I just read my issue of Pool and Billiards. Pretty nasty cue stick piracy coming out of China. Very interesting pictures of "Preoaidr" cues. They even include "warranty" cards that look a lot like the real warranty cards from the real companies.

Also from China are ball sets that look just like Aramith designs and packaged in the same box design that Aramith used to use. The standard "made in China" label is a quarter-inch metal foil oval with bad adhesive. At one time you could get a set of balls that looked close to the Aramith Pro design delivered to your house for $30. The colors were off a little and similar balls were reported (by Cornerman?) to fall apart.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I just read my issue of Pool and Billiards. Pretty nasty cue stick piracy coming out of China. Very interesting pictures of "Preoaidr" cues. They even include "warranty" cards that look a lot like the real warranty cards from the real companies.

Also from China are ball sets that look just like Aramith designs and packaged in the same box design that Aramith used to use. The standard "made in China" label is a quarter-inch metal foil oval with bad adhesive. At one time you could get a set of balls that looked close to the Aramith Pro design delivered to your house for $30. The colors were off a little and similar balls were reported (by Cornerman?) to fall apart.
Click to expand...

Bob:

What's interesting about this piracy, is that even products that are Chinese to begin with -- i.e. Predator and Poison -- are being copied and pirated ("Preoaidr" and "Poinos" respectively).

So it looks like not so much a "pirate American-made products" thing, as it is a "pirate well-known brands regardless of their origin" thing.

There's probably a factory there in China that was stood up specifically for this purpose. I seem to recall, in one of the case threads, how a certain factory is known to do this, although the name of this factory slips my mind. I think Predator contracted this factory at one time to make their cases (the case that was excessively large, and didn't provide adequate protection for the cues inside).

Very sad state of affairs. But I'm glad the companies affected are reacting quickly, and getting the word out.

-Sean
 
It's BRUTAL over here. Predator, Joss, McDermott, Schon are just a few brands which are being copied. Complete with accurate logos. The misspelled ones are the hacks. I have played with McDermott knockoffs where I couldn't tell the difference in workmanship, construction or hit.

I have seen Tim Scruggs tips, (no such thing was ever authorized by Timmy), Joss Cloth complete with logo, of course Master and Triangle chalk.

Brunswick tables are the number one knocked off design. Although I haven't yet seen a counterfeit Brunswick that I know of. I have been told that most of the Brunswick Gold Crowns in Taiwan were counterfeit though.

Fury cues are knocked off, Mezz cues are knocked off. And of course anyone's design is considered fair game. You can walk into any pool room here and you'd think that there were a million dollars' worth of cues on the wall.

SouthWest knockoffs are the gold standard with many shafts reported sold as authentic SW shafts but were made in Taiwan.

And don't get me started on the cases. What is truly funny is that Justis jumped into bed with the biggest knockoff artist of them all Long Quan. Go into their showroom and you can see knockoffs of every top case maker. To be fair he probably didn't know it until he was there.

"Predator" cases are knocked off constantly. I designed the first Predator cases and my design was knocked off and shipped to Predator as a sample within a week of me sending it to them. (Don't tell anyone but I think maybe that one was an inside job). Good thing when they showed it to me I was able to rip it apart with my bare hands to show them how weak it was. But since I have been here I have seen so many variations on that design that I lost count, all with the Predator logo.

Karim told me he has seen a Predator BK3 over here and Predator doesn't even make a BK3.

I have seen ugly d-grade one piece shafts with the 314 logo on them and decals where inlays should be with the Predator logo on the bottom like the Ikon series.

And the best part, not even the Chinese want the stuff made in China so all these knockoffs say Made in USA on them.

BUT - the Chinese are starting to figure out that this is not the way to go and as they are trying harder and harder to establish their own brands they are starting to understand how much it hurts when they get knocked off. It happens to domestic brands as well.

But the Joss/Schon/McDermott counterfeits are the most brazen. I doubt that many of them will be making it to America. In the Chinese market cues are selling for ridiculous prices right now. Sure there are a lot of cheap ones but premium brands are fetching premium prices. The market is still a little soft for high end cues but it's coming. And the appetite for GENUINE American made cues is growing so my advice to all the US cuemakers is to figure out how to sell INTO China. Having a real Joss will be prestigous just like having a real Gucci bag is.

Here in Xiamen for example we have a Gucci store, an LV store, Ferrari and Porsche dealers, and all the high end brands. The Gucci store is packed all the time and the bags go from $500 to $2000ish.
 
Sean, for the counterfeiters it's always been about brands with no thought as to country of origin.

But there is country of origin fraud as well. Over here we see completely made up brands, not counterfeits or knockoffs, but completely new brands that magically have a 100 year company history attached to them from France and the USA and other lands.

Or, here you go, we bought Jessie a bunch of DVDs, knockoffs naturally, Dora the Explorer, Gymboree, Night Garden, Mickey Mouse, Baby Einstein, Elmo, etc.... and then I happened to catch a children's program in Chinese that I liked for Jessie and asked Karen to find it on DVD. She did and we got like 20 DVDs of this show. I had only seen a few minutes of it on TV.

Well as we were watching it we noticed that they had copied the songs, routines, and characters from just about every major kid's dvds and just Chinafied them a little bit. Which as it turns out was not really a bad thing in our case since Jessie had devoured all the English ones and now she is getting the same content in Chinese.

But we found it amazing the depth of knocking off that extends even into the crib.
 
Simple answer.. boycott them all. They are people that do not respect international law, have ZERO integrity and if you get into bed with them, well, hope it's worth it.

How many times will you hear about this before it sinks in... mickey mouse, coke, they steal and produce forgeries of everything. Now it hits the pool and billiard industry.

When I was designing plastic extrusion equipment a guy with a micro-camera was taking pics of our equipment when we caught him. He was Chinese and even after a berating he smiled like the Magoo character in the cartoon and walked off... a few months later there was an extruder in a Chinese magazine that looked a heck of a lot like ours.

It's a joke, and a very bad one. I guess all you can do is becareful and try not to buy from the forgers, but I suspect, that the forgers all got their start from some place...

JV
 
classiccues said:
Simple answer.. boycott them all. They are people that do not respect international law, have ZERO integrity and if you get into bed with them, well, hope it's worth it.

How many times will you hear about this before it sinks in... mickey mouse, coke, they steal and produce forgeries of everything. Now it hits the pool and billiard industry.

When I was designing plastic extrusion equipment a guy with a micro-camera was taking pics of our equipment when we caught him. He was Chinese and even after a berating he smiled like the Magoo character in the cartoon and walked off... a few months later there was an extruder in a Chinese magazine that looked a heck of a lot like ours.

It's a joke, and a very bad one. I guess all you can do is becareful and try not to buy from the forgers, but I suspect, that the forgers all got their start from some place...

JV
Click to expand...

Joe,

People knock off other people all over the world. You think that American companies don't do it? The steal essential design elements, they steal copy, they steal color schemes and trade dress.

Copying IS the way the world keeps turning. If people didn't emulate success then we'd still be scratching our asses through the poop caked on them.

Some people thrive on making only counterfeits and others just steal the ideas and make new products out of the best ideas.

These people have been doing their thing for 5000 years. And in the 18th century there were Western companies set up here specifically to use Chinese labor to knock off Western goods like clocks among other things. This is not a new thing.

What really pisses me off is that an Ipad costs more here than it does in America. How is that even possible that the damn thing is made here and shipped to my city for $1 and yet it costs me $200 more to buy it here than in America?

Something is wacky there. And it's not a question of short supply driving up the prices, the price is the same everywhere and it's not just Ipads. Laptops, cell phones, you name it it's more expensive here. Shit even some rice is more expensive, figure that one out. And don't get me started on the price of Chinese tea.
 
There really is nothing the U.S. companies can do. Hell, we can't even get our trade deficit or their currency corrected. If we can't address the BIG STUFF in a meaningful way, there's ZERO chance of addressing the small stuff (cues and the like).

Unfortunately, there's no recourse. Well, there IS recourse; but, the cost of pursuing isn't worth it.

For anyone who wants to pursue it and send in a boat load to see what happens, I might be able to hook them up with some Chinese government contacts. If you need a translator / business attache - I can provide that as well.

Problem is - the government is also privatized in many sectors. It wouldn't surprise me the slightest bit if the government has a piece of these factories' action.

Ask me how I know :)
 
SpiderWebComm said:
There really is nothing the U.S. companies can do. Hell, we can't even get our trade deficit or their currency corrected. If we can't address the BIG STUFF in a meaningful way, there's ZERO chance of addressing the small stuff (cues and the like).

Unfortunately, there's no recourse. Well, there IS recourse; but, the cost of pursuing isn't worth it.

For anyone who wants to pursue it and send in a boat load to see what happens, I might be able to hook them up with some Chinese government contacts. If you need a translator / business attache - I can provide that as well.

Problem is - the government is also privatized in many sectors. It wouldn't surprise me the slightest bit if the government has a piece of these factories' action.

Ask me how I know :)
Click to expand...

Everything is connected.
 
This is just the tip of the iceberg for counterfeit cues.
Production cues and South West are not the only cues being knocked off, and the letters in the name are not being jumbled like the Predator and Poison cues we've seen.
 
cuesblues said:
This is just the tip of the iceberg for counterfeit cues.
Production cues and South West are not the only cues being knocked off, and the letters in the name are not being jumbled like the Predator and Poison cues we've seen.
Click to expand...

Will valves be next? Or is that already happening?
And by the way if you read this before 5 PM we are at "Thirsties" tonight.
 
measureman said:
Will valves be next? Or is that already happening?
And by the way if you read this before 5 PM we are at "Thirsties" tonight.
Click to expand...

We have ISO 9001 plants in China, India, Mexico, Italy, UK, Brazil, even the USA, but that started 30-years ago after the EPA under Jimmy Carter basically shut down so many of the steel foundries in the United States with unrealistic emissions requirements.
We purchased a well known safety relief valve company just because we needed a domestic bronze foundry.
The requirements for the ARRA stimulus projects was not very well thought out either, and is creating havoc with control valve companies and construction in general of stimulus projects.
Some projects have rejected the stimulus funding because of all the extra costs and time involved.
The foundries we have left in the United States are very busy.

Thanks, Doug said Thirsty's but I was going to check the schedule.
You know Doug.
 
cuesblues said:
We have ISO 9001 plants in China, India, Mexico, Italy, UK, Brazil, even the USA, but that started 30-years ago after the EPA under Jimmy Carter basically shut down so many of the steel foundries in the United States with unrealistic emissions requirements.
We purchased a well known safety relief valve company just because we needed a domestic bronze foundry.
The requirements for the ARRA stimulus projects was not very well thought out either, and is creating havoc with control valve companies and construction in general of stimulus projects.
Some projects have rejected the stimulus funding because of all the extra costs and time involved.
The foundries we have left in the United States are very busy.

Thanks, Doug said Thirsty's but I was going to check the schedule.
You know Doug.
Click to expand...

I know Doug. Had he been in charge of the D-Day invasion of France we would still be sitting on the beach in Spain.
 
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