Crazy big money action at DCC last night
- Thread starter terryhanna
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When I read his post, I was wondering wtf as well...
Dennis got suckered bigtime, lmfao
today's elte poker players that learned online (unlike most games, you can develop your game 10fold using the internet) AND have that natural hustle in em, watch out........
some of these guys are genius' and they KNOW the odds and probability of winning
and I'm not kidding about their skillset in winning money, hell just look at Phil Ivey ROBBING casinos world wide for tens of millions, taking candy from a baby for real
this dude just strangled arguably the worlds best money player
II'm thinking like everyone else here ..."move the nine ball"....easy enough, but clearly a bad bet for anyone, if I had Denni's skill I would have probably taken that bet too
obviously not this guy's first rodeo
bravo and note to all pool players.....watch dem high level poker guys
today's elte poker players that learned online (unlike most games, you can develop your game 10fold using the internet) AND have that natural hustle in em, watch out........
some of these guys are genius' and they KNOW the odds and probability of winning
and I'm not kidding about their skillset in winning money, hell just look at Phil Ivey ROBBING casinos world wide for tens of millions, taking candy from a baby for real
this dude just strangled arguably the worlds best money player
II'm thinking like everyone else here ..."move the nine ball"....easy enough, but clearly a bad bet for anyone, if I had Denni's skill I would have probably taken that bet too
obviously not this guy's first rodeo
bravo and note to all pool players.....watch dem high level poker guys
I read it when I was tired and thought "I must have misread something, I'll try again tomorrow" and now I see this. LOL. My favorite part of it is that he speaks with so much certainty, but alas, is clearly just making shit up.
I was referring to nick. nick schulman, known in closer circles as nicky the kid
I'm well aware that flakes, cornflakes, john hennigan and johnny world are all the same person.
What is seriously lacking in pool is the kind of study and analysis that poker does. Not only the math and science but the underlying properties as well. Reading the different type of players. Tight, Loose, Nit, etc etc.
Poker players constantly discuss situations and hands and bet sizing.
Also bankroll building.
Pool players are really lacking when it comes to strategy and craft.
I already belong to several poker educational sights where some of the best cash and tournament players work out of and teach. What is there in terms of pool? Just a lot of whining, one upsmanship, and competitive egos. Until we recognize that pool is a difficult scientific game and a lifestyle that is out of the ordinary 9 to 5 it will just be a hobby.
BTW John Hennigan does not play online or use the computer for poker. He really comes from the old school and likes face to face competition. Perhaps this is why he feels comfortable in an arena setting.
Poker players constantly discuss situations and hands and bet sizing.
Also bankroll building.
Pool players are really lacking when it comes to strategy and craft.
I already belong to several poker educational sights where some of the best cash and tournament players work out of and teach. What is there in terms of pool? Just a lot of whining, one upsmanship, and competitive egos. Until we recognize that pool is a difficult scientific game and a lifestyle that is out of the ordinary 9 to 5 it will just be a hobby.
BTW John Hennigan does not play online or use the computer for poker. He really comes from the old school and likes face to face competition. Perhaps this is why he feels comfortable in an arena setting.
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I think the fact that pool has a distict execution element that poker does not have is likely the reason that such analysis is not possible.
In pool, there is literally always multiple ways to make things work. In poker, there is just the probability.
In pool, the proficiency level of a given player also fluctuates, depending on the equipment, whether the guy is 'in stroke', etc...in poker, the cards and various probabilities are basically static.
In pool, there is literally always multiple ways to make things work. In poker, there is just the probability.
In pool, the proficiency level of a given player also fluctuates, depending on the equipment, whether the guy is 'in stroke', etc...in poker, the cards and various probabilities are basically static.
You must not be in that "closer circles". If you did you would know that Nicky owns a piece of a top pool room in Manhattan. He is also in action a lot in the Vegas pool scene and plays high. He works hard on his game.
They both love pool and action. And in the right way. "flakes" as you call him didn't think he had a lock. He respects Dennis' game but John likes to bet it up and has confidence in his own game. We texted after his win. So Im not making this stuff up.
BTW they used to call Efren, The Kid (Bata). They don't call him that anymore.
John Hennigan did play online poker before it was banned in the US.
nick owns a piece of what used to be broadway billiards in mid town NYC.
about 12 years ago, he all but gave up on pool and dedicated his life to online poker which was quite lucrative for him. at this time, he was still a kid, not even 21 years old yet, but a 100 ball runner and formidable opponent playing 9-ball. my point was that had he stayed with pool instead of getting into poker, the sky would have been the limit for how good he could have played. there was/is a ton of talent in NYC and as I remember, he was like a sponge just soaking it all in. im sure he's playing very well right now, but I suspect he would have been at least top 5 had he not started playing poker instead of pool.
obviously, though, poker has treated him much better than pool ever could, so as I said earlier, hat's off to him and his poker accomplishments.
I am in very much agreement with you but there is still not enough study about the science of the game itself. What they both have in common is decision making. Time and time again Ive seen players take the wrong option in terms of shot. Whether it be a safe or aggressive shot. Also difference in tournament play and cash game.
I know in rotation games the map is set out for you. But there is still strategy to each game and to the whole session. Pool players have yet to enter this discussion. Watch closely to Efren play the much loved Filipino game of Rotation. His approach towards kicks, clusters, pattern play, is tremendous. This stuff can be taught. But there are no teachers and no one is willing to pay for lessons.
Ive paid $200 for hourly poker lessons. How many pool players would pay half that?
Im just saying there has to be a more dedicated approach to learning how to play pool.
BTW I used to take lessons from a teacher who wrote for Card Player Magazine named Barry Tannenbaum. A great player and coach. He coached me in a $10K entry into a tournament at Caesers. I ended up on the final 3 tables. and ended up 25th. At my table was John Hennigan and it is where I first met him. A great guy and competitior.
I understand what you're saying but you're simplifying poker...
you're simplifying poker here to illustrate your point although I do think your point has merit.
Yes probability plays a large part in poker, but there are different avenues in poker as well. The best players are usually best at understanding/reading their opponent.
It's not just about knowing what hands they have either. Often times it's understanding how they determine what you likely have in your hand.
Daniel Negreanu is uncanny with his ability to know what his opponent holds, but just as important is being able to make your opponent think you have what you want them to think you have.
Jaden
you're simplifying poker here to illustrate your point although I do think your point has merit.
Yes probability plays a large part in poker, but there are different avenues in poker as well. The best players are usually best at understanding/reading their opponent.
It's not just about knowing what hands they have either. Often times it's understanding how they determine what you likely have in your hand.
Daniel Negreanu is uncanny with his ability to know what his opponent holds, but just as important is being able to make your opponent think you have what you want them to think you have.
Jaden
I'm thinking BB is also saying this:
The ratio of skill vs luck is much higher in Poker than Pool, where skill has a much higher bearing on the outcome.
Just to throw a quick analogy out there, You will never see a Chris Moneymaker situation in Pool. Essentially, a legit high level amateur winning the World Pool Championships just ain't ever gonna happen.
Eric
Youre right but the cream always rises to the top. Consistentcy is the key. Top Poker players work hard and that is why they are often in the money. Phil Ivey has a teaching site.
Even some unknown guy beat Efren in a race to 3 in one pocket. Pinegar just beat Jason Shaw 9 to 0 in 9 ball. I would give odds on that ever happening.. There is always some luck. But no one is teaching how to deal with it. Where as in poker there is voluminous work on tilting and fighting when cards don't come your way.
But there just not enough strategical and scientific thought given to pool.
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I would agree with a lot of what you said. There is no doubt that the cream will rise to the top, especially in a larger statistical sample.
If anything, I wanted to highlight how much more luck can play a factor in Poker vs Pool.
Eric
I would have to agree, but disagree, if that makes any sense.
The majority of big games flakes has been involved in back when he was playing pool, and whenever he would pop up here or there, have involved a back pocket game.
Archer beats him in regular 9ball, Flakes chops him up in back pocket. Now Orcullo gets busted up.
It's a specialty game. Part of the pool culture he grew up in.
If a high end pool player were to have played this game for 20 some years and made it a part of their arsenal to know all the moves in this game like flakes has, they would have a much better chance. They can still learn if they wanted to. But how many people want to dedicate all that time to a specialty game that rarely ever pops up when so many easier straight forward propositions exist?
And, they would still have to outrun it to the first bank shot, to have a chance.
You give Dennis a solid amount of time to learn all the nuances about this game, and it wouldn't be stealing.
That is assuming that flakes stays where he is and doesn't start to practice and get in stroke.
No back pocket nine ball is