Creative Accounting

[bignasty]

i.....

Thanks to everyone for there support of the Action Report and our first event. This event is exactly what it says it is : A two man invitational with a $10,000 entry. First prize is $20,000. If one of these two players would not have participated we had several more we would of invited. We are overjoyed we have the cooperation and participation of two of the best players in America.

We do not promote gambling or side betting in any way. When the event goes off there will be no spectators on the rail waving bales of money around trying to get down. We are not stupid. We will not allow it.This is a legit contest between two Champions. Whatever people besides the players and Action Report staff do amongst themselves in private is outside our control.

For anyone who feels the prize is too small, if they know of a way to provide it we would be happy to add money, we would be more than happy to give up the Action Report's spot as title sponsor. Right now this event has no sponsorship. We feel that instead of chasing sponsors with a promise of what we WILL DO, we will focus on putting on the best event we can and then go show potential sponsors what we HAVE DONE.

We plan on doing many more events and hope that as it grows everyone involved will benefit, Players, Fans, Sponsors, and us. We are going to make honest mistakes, we are also going to work hard to learn from them and move forward.

This whole thing came about because 2 guys were bullshitting about "The way I would do it..." Well, we're about to find out if we had any idea about what we were talking about.

you took the words right out of my mouth! and it means alot to justin and myself that you all enjoy what we are doing! we look forward to many more match ups for you to see! thanks again!
bignasty

 

[JCIN]

Well, they have already broken several laws even down to playing the copyrighted music in their podcasts.

IMHO while the intention of the site is good, the method is wrong, and just being the intermediary for the gambling can have huge consequences.

Not sure if when people talk about betting they think that they are being slick by saying jellybeans, like the Feds have never heard such a term or not but the amount of talk about betting lately on the forums makes me not want to be anywhere around the action (I know not a big loss for anyone). Plus the more important thing, people actually wagering on bets through paypal OMG that is the quickest path to prison you can get. Ebay and paypal have both said they openly cooperate with authorities by handing over any records to them.

I for sure like the idea about player A and player B will be in such and such a location as opposed to Chris B and David G are going to play for $10k

Just food for thought.

I am curious as to which laws we have broken?

As far as the copyright laws I MIGHT give you that one but take a stroll through the itunes podcast library some time and then go call the MPAA on everyone you find. To keep from any image of impropriety we have stopped using any music not created by myself.

Other than that I am very curious to know what laws are/were broken. Please enlighten us on your knowlege of internet and South Dakota law.

If you really think that the authorities are going track a guy from his username in a forum to paypal all so they can put some guy in jail for a $50 sweat bet, you may want to loosen the tin foil. If people talking like that bothers you, you better not ever go to any poker forums. The last I looked no one here is running a major online book taking all comers and posting lines for matches all over.

Please show me exactly where our site has been the intermediary for any type of wagering. Show me exactly where on our site we said "Make a bet here" or "If you want action go here". You can't do it.

 

[watchez]

But here is my problem with it; It is billed as $20,000 event when in fact it is a match for $10,000. It has been mentioned that it is the first long race for big money since Reyes/Strickland went to 120 for $100,000.

Just a month or so ago Dennis Orcullo and Yang played a race to 60 for $10,000 - or creatively, a two man tournament with $10,000 entry and $20,000 winner take all.

In the past few days - David G and Chris B played a 10? ahead two man tournament for $20,000 winner take all.

And Chris B. is scheduled to play today another 2 man $20,000 winner take all session in Kentucky.

In Derby City sessions regularly take on these proportions.

Don't get me wrong - this is going to be an epic matchup and I like the format and I love the boxing aspect of it. But please let's not make it out to be like it's a huge amount of money on the line when people with far less talent than Corey and Shane are regularly betting as much or more.

I probably am not wrong when I say that they are getting staked and if so then they are probably only going to get half of the money won or $5000 for two days of play. Still a good payday but not as much as I would think that they should be playing for. When I consider that Mike Massey gets about $1500 plus expenses for a day's work (and that was prices 15 years ago) I have to say that Corey and Shane are underpaid when I compare Mike's work to theirs, especially since one of them is going to go home with no pay and his is guaranteed.



John

Around here, they play races to 7 for 20 bags of sand.

 

[ginsu]

Yeah I guess I am a little bit. I think it's because I don't want it to be just about the money. I would love to see these guys stories get told and the path to this "battle" and so on.

I don't want it to be tainted by clever accounting and talking about how they are playing for big money and all.

But like I said - I am going to pay for a feed even if I can't watch it. I consider this to be the beginning of AWESOME Action Report events.

You're absolutely right - the need for live pool is being filled here. Let's all please not forget that the pioneer for live pool was BCN with the US Open and Derby City.

Kudos to the Action Report for being the PIONEER for live action matchups of this caliber.

We shouldn't forget that the Professor in Starkville provided us with a camera and commentary for his ring game and various matchups last year as well.

Can't wait!!!!

John - Beleive it or not the first live pool was a US Open nine ball Championship in the 90's, aired on espn. I think Earl won. They showed the whole thing.

 

[ginsu]

The Action Report is GREAT!!!!! I just hope they monitor the content on their site so they dont catch any heat for gambling, its legal to discuss gambiling and report on the outcome of events but if they imply they are the match maker of such an event they will in time get popped, and that would be terrible. They need to be a web based news paper for gambling as their name implys ant particapatints of such events, also advertizing such activitys could cause problems with the event comming off because its illegal gambling and disclosing the venue is fiving the Feds a road map to a bust. They should advertize that on a certain date the names of the players and time not the location, they will still get buys and not give up the road map to a bust. Sure were all in action and have been for years but its largely a private subculture, taking the action side of pool online is a bust looking for a place to happen and the way they set up this with the location falls squarly into the cross hairs of the law, bad plan. keep the location private. The feds have computers too and one pissed off whistle blower can ruin the whole thing.

So far this has been handled in the same manner as ESPN's challenge of champions,$50,000 winner take all challenge. All perfectly legal and ESPN has been broadcasting Nation wide for years. So were do you think there's a problem?

 

[ginsu]

Well, they have already broken several laws even down to playing the copyrighted music in their podcasts.

IMHO while the intention of the site is good, the method is wrong, and just being the intermediary for the gambling can have huge consequences.

Not sure if when people talk about betting they think that they are being slick by saying jellybeans, like the Feds have never heard such a term or not but the amount of talk about betting lately on the forums makes me not want to be anywhere around the action (I know not a big loss for anyone). Plus the more important thing, people actually wagering on bets through paypal OMG that is the quickest path to prison you can get. Ebay and paypal have both said they openly cooperate with authorities by handing over any records to them.

I for sure like the idea about player A and player B will be in such and such a location as opposed to Chris B and David G are going to play for $10k

Just food for thought.

I don't think anyone has advertised this as a gambling event. It is a entry fee challenge match which is how the 14.1 championships were advertised in every major newspaper in the country in the 30's, 40's and early 50's until they started round robin fields, til then it was a two men field, the current champ and his challenger.

 

[Russ Chewning]

I am curious as to which laws we have broken?

As far as the copyright laws I MIGHT give you that one but take a stroll through the itunes podcast library some time and then go call the MPAA on everyone you find. To keep from any image of impropriety we have stopped using any music not created by myself.

JCIN,

Check out Podcast Safe Music. It's Wikipedia's rundown on Podsafe music. There are resources out there for music that is completely royalty free, and legal to use in podcasts, whereas it may not be legal for other uses.

One source of this royalty free music is music.podshow.com. The podshow network hosts the Dawn and Drew Show, pretty much the most popular adult podcast out there, and they use royalty free music to create a VERY slick product.

Also, everyone check out the Dawn and Drew show.. It's basically a married couple doing a podcast from their farm out in the middle of nowhere.. They are ex goth/punk types, and are just really cool people talking about daily life, plus some crazy shiite. It is labeled "adult" for crude lauage and topics.. You can find them in the podcast list on Itunes.

Their show single handedly got me interested in checking out podcasting.. They are a pretty talented duo.

Russ

 

[u12armresl]

Self Del....

 

[Russ Chewning]

u12armresl,

What is your problem? He said he acknowledged there might be a problem with the music, (Which you don't even KNOW yet.. A lot of content owners have released their music to be freely used on podcasts, so unless you've checked out every song he has ever used, just STFU about it) and to make sure he is not infringing, he went to creating his own music.

Shaddap about the music, bro, unless you are a music executive for the company that specifically owns the content in question, lest you embarass yourself.

Russ

 

[u12armresl]

Oh ya Russ, lots of people release their content, especially established bands and writers like Clapton ROFLMAO.........

I will pass on the STFU part.

 

[Russ Chewning]

You're making yourself look like a fool. You just MIGHT want to look at the link I provided.. There are HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of songs that have been made "podsafe" by the content owners.

Not saying that Eric Clapton or any other particular artist has or has not made their songs podsafe, but the point is YOU don't know either..

There are specific business reasons to make these songs royalty free for podcasts. Mebbe you might want to look them up.

Russ

 

[ginsu]

You're making yourself look like a fool. You just MIGHT want to look at the link I provided.. There are HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of songs that have been made "podsafe" by the content owners.

Not saying that Eric Clapton or any other particular artist has or has not made their songs podsafe, but the point is YOU don't know either..

There are specific business reasons to make these songs royalty free for podcasts. Mebbe you might want to look them up.

Russ

Russ - You can educate him but if he doesn't want to learn your just wasting your time. Good try and the action report guys might have learned somthing.

 

[JCIN]

JCIN,

Check out Podcast Safe Music. It's Wikipedia's rundown on Podsafe music. There are resources out there for music that is completely royalty free, and legal to use in podcasts, whereas it may not be legal for other uses.

One source of this royalty free music is music.podshow.com. The podshow network hosts the Dawn and Drew Show, pretty much the most popular adult podcast out there, and they use royalty free music to create a VERY slick product.

Also, everyone check out the Dawn and Drew show.. It's basically a married couple doing a podcast from their farm out in the middle of nowhere.. They are ex goth/punk types, and are just really cool people talking about daily life, plus some crazy shiite. It is labeled "adult" for crude lauage and topics.. You can find them in the podcast list on Itunes.

Their show single handedly got me interested in checking out podcasting.. They are a pretty talented duo.

Russ

Thanks for the tip Russ. I will check it out.

I will admit that before we decided to put the Action Challenge together and the website was just us talking about pool with no commerce involved I wasn't too worried about using mainstream music. The Allman Brothers and Gov't Mule (the two main groups I used) both allow taping and trading of their music so I wasn't too worried about them being upset about a podcast that a few hundred people would listen to.

Since we have put on this event and are charging a fee for the gate and pay per view we have entered the world of a business, so from now on to make sure there is no problem I will not use any music that I am not sure about.

I have seen photos that I took on the web with no credit so I understand on a small scale the other side of the copyright issue. Personally it doesn't bother me too much but that is just me. I know a couple of people that have been turned on to these groups music due to the podcasts so hopefully that makes up for any harm done.

 

[Jack Madden]

you took the words right out of my mouth! and it means alot to justin and myself that you all enjoy what we are doing! we look forward to many more match ups for you to see! thanks again!
bignasty

Chad and Justin
I think its great. Best of luck on the financial end for you both.

 

[Snoogi]

You're making yourself look like a fool. You just MIGHT want to look at the link I provided.. There are HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of songs that have been made "podsafe" by the content owners.

Not saying that Eric Clapton or any other particular artist has or has not made their songs podsafe, but the point is YOU don't know either..

There are specific business reasons to make these songs royalty free for podcasts. Mebbe you might want to look them up.

Russ

Well, I suppose this scenario not only happens in the music industry but in most trades, how the big boys compliment each other for the sake of the whole business. The music industry has been slow to embrace podcasting. I'm not sure how things go for the western counterparts so far but from the asian perspective, while there's been a relationship in place for decades allowing radio stations to license musics and songs for broadcast, there's been no such deal reached with podcasters, outsiders really don't know. Of course record labels benefit from the free publicity when podcasters feature their musics and songs. But at the same time they also have to deal with the fact that a digital copy of their intellectual property is being thrown out into the ether.

Meantime, a whole culture of podsafe musics or songs has arisen. Some web sites and music networks have filled the void by creating services that allow musicians/composers/makers to have their productions heard, a form of advertising or promotion we may call it, and let podcasters find freely available content for their projects and programs.

As for me, I'm lazier, I 'torrent'..

 

[John Barton]

I am curious as to which laws we have broken?

As far as the copyright laws I MIGHT give you that one but take a stroll through the itunes podcast library some time and then go call the MPAA on everyone you find. To keep from any image of impropriety we have stopped using any music not created by myself.

Other than that I am very curious to know what laws are/were broken. Please enlighten us on your knowlege of internet and South Dakota law.

If you really think that the authorities are going track a guy from his username in a forum to paypal all so they can put some guy in jail for a $50 sweat bet, you may want to loosen the tin foil. If people talking like that bothers you, you better not ever go to any poker forums. The last I looked no one here is running a major online book taking all comers and posting lines for matches all over.

Please show me exactly where our site has been the intermediary for any type of wagering. Show me exactly where on our site we said "Make a bet here" or "If you want action go here". You can't do it.

I am pretty sure that if you do not make a profit off of the podcasts that you can use snippets of music. There is a thing called FAIR USE as well for copyrighted materials.

For example a high school play does not need to seek permission of the copyright holders to use published songs in it's productions.

It is legal to publish excerpts of books for book reviews and reports and I am equally positive (although possibly wrong) that it is legal to use snippets of music in a non-profit enviroment, i.e. one where the revenue is not generated through the use of the copyrighted content.

The question is WHY are people listening to the Podcasts. It is not because of the song excerpts. It is because of the interview content. Now IF they were charging for the podcasts and using full songs then I would say they definitely owe some kind of fees to someone.

And that is the end of my morning cooment without research.

 

[John Barton]

So far this has been handled in the same manner as ESPN's challenge of champions,$50,000 winner take all challenge. All perfectly legal and ESPN has been broadcasting Nation wide for years. So were do you think there's a problem?

Um, not quite. The Challenge of Champions is an event where the participants are invited based on their individual results over the preceding year. There is no "entry" fee and the participants are paid an appearance fee to cover expenses. None of the money for the prize comes from the participants.

The problem that Fatboy proposes is quite simple - any court could decide that despite the "wording" the event is quite simply a public gambling match. They could do this even if they were wrong about it. A court could determine that a "2-man" tournament is not a "tournament" but is a challenge with a stake wagered by the participants IF they wanted to be nitpicky about the accounting.

We all know that police and DA's like to shoot first and sort out the legalities later. I happen to think however that this event is not even of consequence enough for the mainstream to worry about it.

And furthermore I am equally sure that Chad and Justin have thought about all the legal ramifications and have acted accordingly.

 

[JCIN]

All I can think of to say is that this event is exactly what we have said it was from the beginning. If someone wants to spin it one way or the other that is on them.

These types of events are far from new. For many years they were how Champions showed their skill. The only difference is that today technology makes it possible for a dispersed fan base to come together and watch a display of skill and heart from all over the world at the same time.

Look at the pictures from the 20's-30's-and 40's of the challenge matches between the great players of that era. The crowd surrounding two Champions putting it all out there in order to win the prize. It is much more personal than any tournament final. These guys are going to play for hours upon hours with each other, they will learn things about each other and themselves.

Can the event be described as:

Action? Yes.
A challenge match? Yes.
A small invitational tournament? Yes

I think no matter what you call it, it is gonna be the nuts and I can't wait!

 

[John Barton]

Justin and Chad,

I think you all know that 99.99% of us here wish you nothign but success upon success.

Please just take it as constructive speculation from the best brain trust in billiards.

We are your customers and also your partners. We don't want to see anything happen to you and so it's only good that all issues be discussed, dissected, and taken care of.

As long as you all have your asses covered then it's all good - we sure don't want to lose the video feed to a Johnston City style Keystone Cops episode!

John

 

[prewarhero]

HEY Action report !!!!!!!

keep on keepin on..........

and if you need financial advice... I got you covered......