Cross-back bank on a Diamond?

Banks

Banks

Banned
I was really starting to enjoy banking across the side pocket and having it reverse into the other side. With the right angle, it was getting to be a really nice shot on the GCs and Valleys I play on.

Then I go play on some Diamonds and can't get the shot for the life of me. Does this type of shot still work on a standard Diamond or do I need to slow up my shot for the english to grab off the second rail?

I know I can get the reversing from going straight back and forth, but crossing over that first side pocket just wasn't getting it done.

Thanks in advance.
 
Banks said:
I was really starting to enjoy banking across the side pocket and having it reverse into the other side. With the right angle, it was getting to be a really nice shot on the GCs and Valleys I play on.

Then I go play on some Diamonds and can't get the shot for the life of me. Does this type of shot still work on a standard Diamond or do I need to slow up my shot for the english to grab off the second rail?

I know I can get the reversing from going straight back and forth, but crossing over that first side pocket just wasn't getting it done.

Thanks in advance.
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It could be faster cloth on the rails than you're used to. I don't see how the rubber matters.

pj
chgo
 
I know that diamond tables have extremely bouncy rails....I believe they're accufast but I could be wrong. The springier the rails the shorter angle the ball leaves at. Could cause big problems with double banks. Slow your ball down a bit and it will go across 2 rails the way you're thinking.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
It could be faster cloth on the rails than you're used to. I don't see how the rubber matters.

pj
chgo
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I think spongy rails allow more action, where as Diamond tables have pretty fast rails, so things come up short a lot - good for some banks, bad for others. Yeah, the cloth makes a bit of a difference, but I tried a bit and couldn't quite get the reversing action after crossing the first pocket.

"Q" Protectors said:
I know that diamond tables have extremely bouncy rails....I believe they're accufast but I could be wrong. The springier the rails the shorter angle the ball leaves at. Could cause big problems with double banks. Slow your ball down a bit and it will go across 2 rails the way you're thinking.
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I actually kinda like them for Z banks more than the GC or Valley, because you don't have to worry as much about hitting with enough speed to cover the second section(2nd rail to hole). I'll try a slower shot, uhh, tonight I guess since I'll be playing on Diamonds later.

...

Just to clarify, this is banking just wide of the first pocket and reversing to go back to the other side.
 
I believe diamond tble have artemis rails. I played on diamond tables (bar box and 9ft) for the first time this past weekend and IMMEDIATLY noticed that they bank SHORTER than a gc or valley table..
 
Not clear what you're going for...

want a Z bank where it hits the 2nd rail short (too 'low' for the side), but then by the third rail it's high enough to go into that opposite side?

or a reversing Z, where the initial bank is wide, but it bites into the rail and actually goes back downhill, to make it into the opposite side?

To bank too wide but then have it go backward, you gotta just hit hard.
To make it go uphill afterwards it's considerably softer and you gotta find a sweet spot between a bank that's not firm enough to zigzag across the table... and so firm it starts to reverse back downhill after the second rail.
 
CreeDo said:
Not clear what you're going for...

want a Z bank where it hits the 2nd rail short (too 'low' for the side), but then by the third rail it's high enough to go into that opposite side?

or a reversing Z, where the initial bank is wide, but it bites into the rail and actually goes back downhill, to make it into the opposite side?

To bank too wide but then have it go backward, you gotta just hit hard.
To make it go uphill afterwards it's considerably softer and you gotta find a sweet spot between a bank that's not firm enough to zigzag across the table... and so firm it starts to reverse back downhill after the second rail.
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Z is easier for me to do on a diamond.

I guess it would be the reverse Z.. I call it the cross-back, since it crosses over the first side and then back. Dunno terribly much about the terminology.

Hitting it at a decent pace on a GC or Valley makes it a fair percentage, but I just couldn't get it to back up for the life of me on a Diamond last month. Going to give it a few(dozen) tries tonight before/after BCA.

Please, hold the applause for my artistic abilities..

View attachment crossback.bmp
 
Banks said:
Z is easier for me to do on a diamond.

I guess it would be the reverse Z.. I call it the cross-back, since it crosses over the first side and then back. Dunno terribly much about the terminology.

Hitting it at a decent pace on a GC or Valley makes it a fair percentage, but I just couldn't get it to back up for the life of me on a Diamond last month. Going to give it a few(dozen) tries tonight before/after BCA.

Please, hold the applause for my artistic abilities..

View attachment 248247
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Ohhh,your tryin to make a shot that won't go on most tables.The ones you were making that shot on do have some different kind of rubber or something going on I would think.I have made it on a Diamond buy not very often.Super tuff shot that has to have just the right table and conditions,imo.When their on the same side it's not that hard but when you want it to go down below the side and come back:eek: Is all I can think of,lol Good luck but that shot won't work on most good tables and or rails.Again, jmho. John B.

PS: I only play on Diamonds around here.That's what all my friends have and me also.There's 4 Diamonds within a few miles of my house,lol
 
John Brumback said:
Ohhh,your tryin to make a shot that won't go on most tables.The ones you were making that shot on do have some different kind of rubber or something going on I would think.I have made it on a Diamond buy not very often.Super tuff shot that has to have just the right table and conditions,imo.When their on the same side it's not that hard but when you want it to go down below the side and come back:eek: Is all I can think of,lol Good luck but that shot won't work on most good tables and or rails.Again, jmho. John B.

PS: I only play on Diamonds around here.That's what all my friends have and me also.There's 4 Diamonds within a few miles of my house,lol
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Yeah, I was kinda thinking that, but was wondering if maybe it needed to be hit softer. Hitting it at a decent clip on the GC at the hall or Valleys in the bars, it goes fairly often. Once you realize the double-kiss can't be avoided for the first pocket, it's almost a gimme on some tables. Probably has to do with the not-as-slick felt grabbing more of that spin and the rails not kicking back as much as on a Diamond.

I know I'm a relative beginner, but when faced with the double-kiss for the first bank, just play it like you're doing your best to avoid the double-kiss and it goes pretty often if you smack it.. just, not on those damn Diamonds it seems. They've got a few of their own banks, though.

I've played I think, uhh, twice on a big Diamond. :embarrassed2: Not sure what kind of GC's are at the hall, but the rest of the time it's Diamond and Valley barboxes for me.

Starting to understand the reversing a little more.. just give me another 10 years! :eek:
 
John Brumback said:
Ohhh,your tryin to make a shot that won't go on most tables.The ones you were making that shot on do have some different kind of rubber or something going on I would think.I have made it on a Diamond buy not very often.Super tuff shot that has to have just the right table and conditions,imo.When their on the same side it's not that hard but when you want it to go down below the side and come back:eek: Is all I can think of,lol Good luck but that shot won't work on most good tables and or rails.Again, jmho. John B.

PS: I only play on Diamonds around here.That's what all my friends have and me also.There's 4 Diamonds within a few miles of my house,lol
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Figured out what I was doing wrong on the Diamonds. I was just off a bit on what I considered a double-kiss on those tables. The video I got of it actually did a little too much come-back on the first try and hit the point, the second went clean. Probably was a little too hesitant to hit it that short before, playing for more of the Diamond rail kick, hitting it too long on the first bank.. playing it more 'natural' on a Diamond and really bringing it back short gets it in.
 
I got around to posting up a video.. I think. Just a couple of quick attempts at the shot from this post.

It's on Facebook, so umm.. if you can't view it.. dunno! Somebody let me know if I did it right. Thanks!

Crossback Bank
 
Yeah that shot goes. I play on a Diamond Professional more than anything. It's not an incredibly difficult shot. I think John thought you were starting the shot with the cueball and object balls on opposite sides of the side pocket and were trying to get the same action as the video, which would be incredibly hard to do, but I could be mistaken.

Also, are you wearing a NOFX shirt in that video?
 
I think I can honestly say I've never seen that shot before. Or at least not on purpose. Lol.

What kind of English are you hitting it with?
 
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Baxter said:
Yeah that shot goes. I play on a Diamond Professional more than anything. It's not an incredibly difficult shot. I think John thought you were starting the shot with the cueball and object balls on opposite sides of the side pocket and were trying to get the same action as the video, which would be incredibly hard to do, but I could be mistaken.

Also, are you wearing a NOFX shirt in that video?
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I was just trying to overcompensate for the Diamond rails and was hitting it wide. Got that and a few other problems fixed now.

Yep, good eye on the NOFX.

fathomblue said:
I think I can honestly say I've never seen that show before. Or at least not on purpose. Lol.

What kind of English are you hitting it with?
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Just center, I think.

When you just can't quite avoid the kiss on the 1-rail, line it up so that you don't get the kiss and give it a smack. You'll be pleasantly surprised with how often it'll go. I know my opponent was when I first used it on purpose in an APA match - he left me that for my last shot and he had the 8 in front of a corner. I checked the hit on the 2nd rail and drilled it. He said something like, "You didn't mean to do that, did you?", he doubted me so I set it up and made it on the first try again. ;)
 
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Are you sure you are not hitting the point? That ball sure looked like it reversed a bit "too" much to me. Can you duplicate the amount of reversal if you go 1 diamond away from the side pocket, so no chance of hitting the point?
 
iusedtoberich said:
Are you sure you are not hitting the point? That ball sure looked like it reversed a bit "too" much to me. Can you duplicate the amount of reversal if you go 1 diamond away from the side pocket, so no chance of hitting the point?
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Ok at the bar for league. I'll try to get a vid on these valleys.
 
Banks said:
I got around to posting up a video.. I think. Just a couple of quick attempts at the shot from this post.

It's on Facebook, so umm.. if you can't view it.. dunno! Somebody let me know if I did it right. Thanks!

Crossback Bank
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By the way, with the OB off the rail that much (looks like a coupla inches) you should also be able to "stiff" it one rail into the other side.

pj
chgo
 
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