CTE Aiming and the GhostBall...to Spider

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Spiderman,
Let's talk about something here that has intrigued me for a long time. It concerns arriving at the proper "ghost ball" location to pocket the ball.
I have never been able to "see" a ghost ball down there next to the object ball inline to the pocket. I've done as the experts said do, place another object ball next to the object ball to be pocketed in a line to the pocket. Remove the extra object ball and practice visualizing it still being there and send the cueball to it and you will make many shots.
I, in 50 years of playing, was lousy at visualizing an invisible ball down there. So I looked around for other ways to accomplish putting the cueball into that required ghost ball location. The Mosconi fraction concepts always made me hit the cuts too thick, same with contact point stuff. I'm not mentally quick enough to utilize the Poolology method because I cannot calculate math that quickly. I know it works for a lot of people who are very smart with math (which I am not).
So I ended up using CTE.....which did everything in a precise repeatable manner to send that cue ball absolutely down the table or across the table to that ghost ball location.
Isn't that what ALL AIMING METHODS wind up doing? Sending the cueball to that invisible "ghost ball" location?? After all, if the cueball doesn't arrive at that ghostball location then the ball will not be pocketed cleanly...right?
So our discussions here in the past have really all been about what METHOD we will use to ARRIVE AT THAT GHOST BALL LOCATION in the most dependable and efficient manner. Am I correct on that?
Isn't that all ANY method of aiming or alignment (CTE, ghost ball, Poolology, contact points, etc. etc.) tries to really do after we cut through all the likes, dislikes, personalities, and stuff?
What is your opinion on these observations of mine ?
Regards,
Lowenstein
(other comments from other players are welcome, this isn't some kind of "secret" thread just for Spider)
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Spiderman,
Let's talk about something here that has intrigued me for a long time. It concerns arriving at the proper "ghost ball" location to pocket the ball.
I have never been able to "see" a ghost ball down there next to the object ball inline to the pocket. I've done as the experts said do, place another object ball next to the object ball to be pocketed in a line to the pocket. Remove the extra object ball and practice visualizing it still being there and send the cueball to it and you will make many shots.
I, in 50 years of playing, was lousy at visualizing an invisible ball down there. So I looked around for other ways to accomplish putting the cueball into that required ghost ball location. The Mosconi fraction concepts always made me hit the cuts too thick, same with contact point stuff. I'm not mentally quick enough to utilize the Poolology method because I cannot calculate math that quickly. I know it works for a lot of people who are very smart with math (which I am not).
So I ended up using CTE.....which did everything in a precise repeatable manner to send that cue ball absolutely down the table or across the table to that ghost ball location.
Isn't that what ALL AIMING METHODS wind up doing? Sending the cueball to that invisible "ghost ball" location?? After all, if the cueball doesn't arrive at that ghostball location then the ball will not be pocketed cleanly...right?
So our discussions here in the past have really all been about what METHOD we will use to ARRIVE AT THAT GHOST BALL LOCATION in the most dependable and efficient manner. Am I correct on that?
Isn't that all ANY method of aiming or alignment (CTE, ghost ball, Poolology, contact points, etc. etc.) tries to really do after we cut through all the likes, dislikes, personalities, and stuff?
What is your opinion on these observations of mine ?
Regards,
Lowenstein
(other comments from other players are welcome, this isn't some kind of "secret" thread just for Spider)

The way Ghost Ball is taught with the imagination doing the work to visualize an imaginary ball in space next to the OB was never, and I mean NEVER for me.

When I started playing and for a long time I used contact points with pretty fair success after a number of years. Whether it's contact points or fractions it's still too tough linking either CCB to a spot or an equal and opposite imaginary spot to the two balls, especially when the equal and opposite spot on the CB can't be seen.

For me, nothing is easier to see than the edge of the white CB on any color OB.

CTE's minimal alignment points make it even more simple.

That having been said, if somebody prefers contact points or fractions, I don't know why the edges of the CB aren't taught or used all across the face of the OB.
Visually it just makes sense.

Please don't make me think and work so hard on more posts today. I'm exhausted.;)
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
...For me, nothing is easier to see than the edge of the white CB on any color OB.

CTE's minimal alignment points make it even more simple.

That having been said, if somebody prefers contact points or fractions, I don't know why the edges of the CB aren't taught or used all across the face of the OB.
Visually it just makes sense....

^^^^^^^^^^^ Interesting.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...if somebody prefers contact points or fractions, I don't know why the edges of the CB aren't taught or used all across the face of the OB.
Visually it just makes sense.
I don't get what you mean by "the edges of the CB used all across the face of the OB". Do you mean figure exactly where on the face of the OB the CB edge should be aimed for every shot?

pj
chgo
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I don't get what you mean by "the edges of the CB used all across the face of the OB". Do you mean figure exactly where on the face of the OB the CB edge should be aimed for every shot?

pj
chgo

Yes, Instead of aiming the CCB off of the OB, the Edge on the inside of the angle is used all across the entire OB even when the CB center can be aligned onto the OB.

CJ Wiley taught the OB center or edge aligned to the fractional cuts on the CB.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Yes, Instead of aiming the CCB off of the OB the Edge on the inside of the angle is used all across the OB even when the CB center can be aligned on the OB.

CJ Wiley taught the OB center or edge aligned to the fractional cuts on the CB.
Thanks, but I was wondering what Spidey meant (didn't sound like that well known idea).

pj
chgo
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Thanks, but I was wondering what Spidey meant (didn't sound like that well known idea).

pj
chgo

What the hell do you think I meant? How many variations could there be?

ENGLISH got what I meant right off the bat in his post #5.

"Yes, Instead of aiming the CCB off of the OB, the Edge on the inside of the angle is used all across the entire OB ."

Picture a full lunar eclipse with the edge of the shadow moving across the entire face of the moon from it's edge to edge, brainiac.

The next time there's a lunar eclipse, watch it. Don't forget to use the Lizard Head move to make sure the shadow is where it is and where it's supposed to be.
 
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sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
What the hell do you think I meant? How many variations could there be?

ENGLISH got what I meant right off the bat in his post #5.

"Yes, Instead of aiming the CCB off of the OB, the Edge on the inside of the angle is used all across the entire OB ."

Picture a full lunar eclipse with the edge of the shadow moving across the entire face of the moon from it's edge to edge, brainiac.

The next time there's a lunar eclipse, watch it. Don't forget to use the Lizard Head move to make sure the shadow is where it is and where it's supposed to be.

This dynamic between you two is freakin' hilarious! "Lizard head move." <chuckles>

Alas, even with his understanding, from the occasional quotes I get to see, ENGLISH is still the Cliff Clavin of these boards.
 

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GaryB

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Before Hal developed CTE he taught Fractions. This was in the 90's when he was still living in So. Calif. CTE was an extension of that that he developed while in Burlingame but mostly in PA.

The thing that was a difficult for me was to make a 6 1/2 mm adjustment (1/2 a tip) while moving down into a shot. Pretty darn slim of a margin for error and being in my 80's with bad eyesight a very hard thing to do.

I remember when Hal worked with me one afternoon on Fractions he also slightly adjusted my alignment. I could hardly miss a ball for over 3 weeks. But then I took a 30 day vacation to Germany and when I got back I never got dialed in as well and he had moved to No. Calif.

We should all experiment with things that we pick up on here and they will either help us or not. If not, we should not reject out of hand the possibility that the same thing has helped someone else and should always do so in a courteous manner. Hal was not a world class player but he understood the spatial movement of "Colliding Spheres."
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Before Hal developed CTE he taught Fractions. This was in the 90's when he was still living in So. Calif. CTE was an extension of that that he developed while in Burlingame but mostly in PA.

The thing that was a difficult for me was to make a 6 1/2 mm adjustment (1/2 a tip) while moving down into a shot. Pretty darn slim of a margin for error and being in my 80's with bad eyesight a very hard thing to do.

I remember when Hal worked with me one afternoon on Fractions he also slightly adjusted my alignment. I could hardly miss a ball for over 3 weeks. But then I took a 30 day vacation to Germany and when I got back I never got dialed in as well and he had moved to No. Calif.

We should all experiment with things that we pick up on here and they will either help us or not. If not, we should not reject out of hand the possibility that the same thing has helped someone else and should always do so in a courteous manner. Hal was not a world class player but he understood the spatial movement of "Colliding Spheres."

Nice story about Hal and your experience. Also your words of wisdom from first hand experience.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
This dynamic between you two is freakin' hilarious! "Lizard head move." <chuckles>

I have a great imagination but couldn't make something up like "Lizard head move" on my own. It was the cue wielding maestro himself who described it as such many moons ago on RSB. Finding this was like stumbling upon the Hope Diamond.

Here's maestro Johnson in his own words:

We've talked about this a few times. I prefer to sight down the
contact point-to-contact point line, but that puts my head in
different positions over the stick depending on the shot and can be
physically difficult for cue ball contact points "outside" the stick,
so I adjust it for comfort and consistency.

I also like to move my
head back and forth to sight down more than one of the available
lines, including cue ball path, just for cross reference (I might look
a little like a lizard doing this).


I like to know that my stick is
pointing where I want it to, but "sight down the stick" doesn't work
by itself for me.

Pat Johnson
Chicago


I'm thinking those "chuckles" are now turning into belly busting, can't catch your breath, tears rolling down your face GUFFAWS.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Before Hal developed CTE he taught Fractions. This was in the 90's when he was still living in So. Calif. CTE was an extension of that that he developed while in Burlingame but mostly in PA.

The thing that was a difficult for me was to make a 6 1/2 mm adjustment (1/2 a tip) while moving down into a shot. Pretty darn slim of a margin for error and being in my 80's with bad eyesight a very hard thing to do.

I remember when Hal worked with me one afternoon on Fractions he also slightly adjusted my alignment. I could hardly miss a ball for over 3 weeks. But then I took a 30 day vacation to Germany and when I got back I never got dialed in as well and he had moved to No. Calif.

We should all experiment with things that we pick up on here and they will either help us or not. If not, we should not reject out of hand the possibility that the same thing has helped someone else and should always do so in a courteous manner. Hal was not a world class player but he understood the spatial movement of "Colliding Spheres."

Great post!
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Before Hal developed CTE he taught Fractions. This was in the 90's when he was still living in So. Calif. CTE was an extension of that that he developed while in Burlingame but mostly in PA.

The thing that was a difficult for me was to make a 6 1/2 mm adjustment (1/2 a tip) while moving down into a shot. Pretty darn slim of a margin for error and being in my 80's with bad eyesight a very hard thing to do.

I remember when Hal worked with me one afternoon on Fractions he also slightly adjusted my alignment. I could hardly miss a ball for over 3 weeks. But then I took a 30 day vacation to Germany and when I got back I never got dialed in as well and he had moved to No. Calif.

We should all experiment with things that we pick up on here and they will either help us or not. If not, we should not reject out of hand the possibility that the same thing has helped someone else and should always do so in a courteous manner. Hal was not a world class player but he understood the spatial movement of "Colliding Spheres."

Did Hal ever mention to you that it was a Complete Totally Objective System?
 
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