CTE Stepping Cue Ball.

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
You misrepresented what stepping is.
I didn't represent it at all - you did. I just measured what you described.
Stepping, a term created by Stan Shuffett, means that one turns the head in the direction of the cut, acquires the edge of the cueball, and allows the eyes to go to the center from that edge and that center is the center that the shooter then uses to aim at during the practice strokes.
That's what you said, and what I quoted - and what I measured with simple geometry. It's just over your head.

Here's a starter question to help you understand: how far do you think your eyes move when you turn your head to "acquire" the edge of the cueball?

pj
chgo

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I didn't represent it at all - you did. I just measured what you described.

That's what you said, and what I quoted - and what I measured with simple geometry. It's just over your head.

Here's a starter question to help you understand: how far do you think your eyes move when you turn your head to "acquire" the edge of the cueball?

pj
chgo

I'll take a stab at it because math is fun...

With the eyes at 48" from the cb, a head movement/turn of only 1.3° is what it takes to move your focus from ccb to the edge of the cb.

This 1.3° change in perspective equates to a 2.4mm eye shift/offset. From this 2.4mm offset, the "new" ccb ends up being about 5/100 of a mm (0.056mm) away from the original ccb.

That's some pretty impressive fine-tuning!

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll take a stab at it because math is fun...

With the eyes at 48" from the cb, a head movement/turn of only 1.3° is what it takes to move your focus from ccb to the edge of the cb.

This 1.3° change in perspective equates to a 2.4mm eye shift/offset. From this 2.4mm offset, the "new" ccb ends up being about 5/100 of a mm (0.056mm) away from the original ccb.

That's some pretty impressive fine-tuning!
Maybe my memory is incorrect, but I thought the new procedure was to get down on the shot with your head already pointed toward the pocket. Then you move only your eyes from ccb to the edge cb. While your eyes are focused on that edge you then see the NISL, or the shot line, in your peripheral vision. You focus on that new line and look back at it. This is what I recall from the mohrt thread. In Stan's example that I mentioned before he only moves the eyes to the edge when finding that new ccb.

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Maybe my memory is incorrect, but I thought the new procedure was to get down on the shot with your head already pointed toward the pocket. Then you move only your eyes from ccb to the edge cb. While your eyes are focused on that edge you then see the NISL, or the shot line, in your peripheral vision. You focus on that new line and look back at it. This is what I recall from the mohrt thread. In Stan's example that I mentioned before he only moves the eyes to the edge when finding that new ccb.

I have no idea...new method, old method, Stan's method, Tyler's method, Little Chris's method, etc... They all do whatever they do. All I was doing was providing a mathematical answer to PJ's question about how much eye or head movement is needed to change one's focus from ccb to cb edge. And then from that "new" perspective I calculate a new ccb that is 0.056mm away from the first/original perspective.

It probably has nothing to do with cte or "stepping" the cb, but the math id interesting.

Valiant Thor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Geometrically, that results in a new CB center less than 1/100" from the original. Pretty fine-tuned stepping.

pj
chgo
Where did you come up with the figure of 1/100? Please put that in decimal figure

Thresh

Active member
Where did you come up with the figure of 1/100? Please put that in decimal figure

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Where did you come up with the figure of 1/100? Please put that in decimal figure
It's actually 1/142" or 0.18mm. I was being generous.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...the math is interesting.
You can even do it without angles and trig, just by using proportions. Simply put, the distance between the legs of an angle is proportional to the distance from its apex. Here's how that gives my answer of 1/142", with 30" between eyes and CB and 3/16" eye shift.

pj
chgo

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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
I didn't represent it at all - you did. I just measured what you described.

That's what you said, and what I quoted - and what I measured with simple geometry. It's just over your head.

Here's a starter question to help you understand: how far do you think your eyes move when you turn your head to "acquire" the edge of the cueball?

pj
chgo
The aquisition happens from the body position one is in based on the objective cueball/object ball relationship connection established before the stepping. Thus the outermost edge is fixed and unchanged by the amount of head turning.

I don't know how much the eyes move and it isn't at all relevant to the action. The cue ball is the smaller object so the eyes can sweep over it easily.

The task is turn the head slightly and look at the edge and then let the eyes move to center. Something easily done by a human.

You haven't measured anything because there is literally nothing to measure with this task. This is a visual technique that simply requires a person to learn each step of the process and apply it.

The shooter uses objective references and aligns to them without any need to measure anything. There is no need to guess where the edge of the object ball is. Just takes practice to get familiar with a technique that is different than the conventional method.

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
You haven't measured anything because there is literally nothing to measure with this task.

pj
chgo

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member

pj
chgo
I doubt that he'll be thinking about it for another couple of decades but I'm certain you will whether above ground,
below ground, or in a heap of ashes. What's another couple decades added to the current couple of decades you

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I doubt that he'll be thinking about it for another couple of decades but I'm certain you will whether above ground,
below ground, or in a heap of ashes. What's another couple decades added to the current couple of decades you
Quiet, the adults are talking. This forum is for discussion, not trolling. I'd suggest trying NPR if that's your intent.

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Quiet, the adults are talking. This forum is for discussion, not trolling. I'd suggest trying NPR if that's your intent.
You haven't been around long enough to know what talking and discussion is between CTEers and the Anti-CTE cult especially if PJ the cult leader is involved. Go read and practice more of the book if you want to do some good for yourself, not this section of the forum.

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
You haven't been around long enough to know what talking and discussion is between CTEers and the Anti-CTE cult especially if PJ the cult leader is involved. Go read and practice more of the book if you want to do some good for yourself, not this section of the forum.
I haven't? I disagree, hell, Stan even spells it out in his book, Center Pocket Music. You might want to get a copy like I have if you have any questions on the history of the pro-anti crowd. One would have to be asleep to not know about the "discussion."

You were triggered so you trolled. Just like a child. Again, quiet, the adults are talking. Personal attacks do not a discussion make, even if you feel they are deserved, they do nothing to further the discussion.

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I haven't? I disagree, hell, Stan even spells it out in his book, Center Pocket Music. You might want to get a copy like I have if you have any questions on the history of the pro-anti crowd.
I might want to get a copy? Rotflmao! Hey clueless, go into the beginning of the book, Page1, and read the FORWARD.
Who do you think wrote it? Three guesses and the first two don't count. (he'll still get it wrong)

I've had enough of you. IGNORE is now set.

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I might want to get a copy? Rotflmo! Hey clueless, go into the beginning of the book, Page1, and read the FORWARD.
Who do you think wrote it? Three guesses and the first two don't count. (he'll still get it wrong)

I've had enough of you. IGNORE is now set.
Guess somebody couldn't take the heat of the kitchen.

Thresh

Active member
and there you go, a half ball hit is always a half ball hit huh?,,,,,, but a half ball hit is almost never the final aim with CTE, so you admit you have no clue how it actually works. I explained it, and so you get a definition of a new word, but what you don't know is there are many many ways to use kinematic equations, well beyond what you quoted from the dictionary. Tell you what, I can actually prove CTE works with CAD, can you prove it doesn't?
Still waiting on this one butter cup.

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
I'm still confused on the exact steps of stepping the cueball. I read morhts article but I would like further clarification.

A lot of my terminology might be a little outdated but once you lock in your visuals, what is the precise order of stepping the cueball?

Step 1. Lock in perception.
Step 2. Focus on Center Cueball?

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to:

Look at CB edge and then shift my attention back to new CCB and land

OR

Do I keep my eyes fixed on Edge of CB while landing into CCB.

OR

Do I physically move my body left or right to align myself straight on with the CB Edge, then move into CCB?

Am I picking up the new CCB with my vision focus, or does it appear in my peripherals as I focus on the CB Edge?
There are two NISLs available for any given CTE visual, one on each side of CTEL. The NISLs are two separate shot lines. Left eye is dominant for left NISL, right eye dominant for right NISL. The left CB edge will bring the left NISL to your peripheral vision. The right CB edge will bring the right NISL to your peripheral vision. Once you can identify the NISL, swing the cue into the NISL as close as possible, then put your visual focus on the NISL and dial in. The CB edge is just a way to force which NISL you are focusing on, or rather which eye is dominant on the shot line. After some time you won't even need the CB edge, you can learn how to quickly switch between NISLs with your eyes. You should already know which NISL you are after before going into the shot, and adjust your body such that the cue can be put on the NISL comfortably. The eyes lead, body follows. Hello AZ

snookered_again

Well-known member
it sounds complicated. maybe it's a simplistic comparison but i compare finding the center of the cue ball to the way a semi truck driver keeps his rig between the lines. mostly they look ahead and the rest is a learned reaction. he could try to align his rig with a sight line like maybe a hood emblem and the line on the edge of the road but I think its mainly just that he has acclaimed a feel for it.. after years of driving a truck it becomes second nature.

... Maybe ignorance is bliss ... ;-)

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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are two NISLs available for any given CTE visual, one on each side of CTEL. The NISLs are two separate shot lines. Left eye is dominant for left NISL, right eye dominant for right NISL. The left CB edge will bring the left NISL to your peripheral vision. The right CB edge will bring the right NISL to your peripheral vision. Once you can identify the NISL, swing the cue into the NISL as close as possible, then put your visual focus on the NISL and dial in. The CB edge is just a way to force which NISL you are focusing on, or rather which eye is dominant on the shot line. After some time you won't even need the CB edge, you can learn how to quickly switch between NISLs with your eyes. You should already know which NISL you are after before going into the shot, and adjust your body such that the cue can be put on the NISL comfortably. The eyes lead, body follows. Hello AZ
Hi mohrt! For those who don't know mohrt is a rational CTE user and a nice guy.