CTE ... the complete story

dr_dave

dr_dave

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The center-to-edge (CTE) aiming system has been mentioned a lot on this and other online pool forums, but I don't think I've ever seen or heard a description and/or demonstration that was totally complete and/or convincing, IMO. I know it works for the people that use it effectively, but I (and I think many others) don't think it is clear how and why it works for a wide range of shots.

I've compiled quotes of what I think are the clearest and most complete descriptions and demonstrations I've seen to date. They can be found here:


To be clear, I do not endorse or use CTE; although, I like some of the underlying premises and benefits of this and other similar systems (e.g., 90/90), as summarized here:


I use DAM: Dave's Aiming Method.

The purpose for this thread is to arrive at a more accurate, complete, and understandable description of CTE. If it works as well as we have heard, and if there are sound reasons why it works, it should be easy to describe, illustrate, and/or demonstrate in a way that others can readily reproduce for a wide range of shots (with practice).

Please share your description, illustrations, and/or video demonstrations of what you think CTE is and how and why it works.

Regards,
Dave

PS: My November '08 BD article summarized and illustrated several important concepts related to aiming systems. If you haven't seen it yet, check it out. The diagrams, which show the effects of slight cut angle changes and fixed-line-of-aim pivoting, might be useful for discussion. Also, Diagram 4 in my December '08 BD article shows how important bridge length can be with pivot-based systems.
 
not_this_shit_again.jpg


More info is always good...and these threads always seem to be epic
 
Dave:
The purpose for this thread is to arrive at a more accurate, complete, and understandable description of CTE.
Click to expand...

That would be a change. None of the descriptions quoted on your website make sense.

pj
chgo
 
Dr Dave, not to be rude or anything but why don't you go and visit Stan Shuffet, Hal Houle or someone else that teaches CTE. Trying to learn CTE through written descriptions is only going to frustrate you. Learning CTE at the table is the easiest way IMHO.
 
Aiming systems ,laminated tips , low deflection shafts and all the other so called "training aids" are close to useless.
Mosconi, Greenleaf and Lassiter had none of these and they shot the lights out in their day. And could compete if not dominate in the modern era.
 
Guess I'll go ahead an leave myself open to the rath.

I don't play much pocket games but in those rare times that I do I will use a CTE system to pocket balls anywhere on the table except very thin cuts ie a ball frozen on the short rail and the CB say near the spot and cutting to the corner.

The system is simple. Line up for CTE. If the cut angle is to the left, place your tip on the right side of the CB then pivot to center (not moving the bridge) and stroke the shot. Just the opposite for a shot angled to the right.

I can't explain why it works, I just know it does. Even most bank shots comply to this.
 
I dont understand why anyone would knock someone who is trying to help teach people, and not asking for anything in return. Its not like he is trapping people with a sales pitch here, he put in his time and effort and wants to share that, thats a positive thing for pool. If it helps one player play a littler better or gets someone interested in pool, then it was a good thing.


That is just plane rude and shows no class or respect at all. I'm not one to call names or point fingers, but it is so far out of line to knock Dave here. If you dont like it, Dont read it. But why knock it? Does it feel good to knock people? Honestly what motivates people to tear down what other people build? Dave is due a appology.



Thats one thing in pool I hate is the negitivity(and its wide spread), at the gym everyone is about personal growth and being positive and helping each other. That atmosphere breeds success. In pool its the oppsite. thats why pool has been in the shitter forever and will remain there until the people in pool show each other respect.


I realize that alot of people here dont like me, and I can handle that. I'm far from being perfect. But I will never knock another mans work/passion.
 
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measureman said:
Aiming systems ,laminated tips , low deflection shafts and all the other so called "training aids" are close to useless.
Mosconi, Greenleaf and Lassiter had none of these and they shot the lights out in their day. And could compete if not dominate in the modern era.
Click to expand...

Measureman: I'm very interested to talk with you. Apparently you have spent zillions of hours watching Mosconi, Greenleaf and Lassiter work on their personal pool game. I'm impressed.

"Useless" to whom is the question.....SPF=randyg
 
Fatboy said:
I dont understand why anyone would knock someone who is trying to help teach people...
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You said it. The man puts huge amount of work and we all benefit from it to take shots at Dave is just stupid at best...............
 
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JMS said:
Dr Dave, not to be rude or anything but why don't you go and visit Stan Shuffet, Hal Houle or someone else that teaches CTE. Trying to learn CTE through written descriptions is only going to frustrate you. Learning CTE at the table is the easiest way IMHO.
Click to expand...


Don't forget the aluminum foil hat you have to wear while listening to the "explanations :-)

Lou Figueroa
"and AWAY we go"
Jackie Gleason
 
measureman said:
Aiming systems ,laminated tips , low deflection shafts and all the other so called "training aids" are close to useless.
Mosconi, Greenleaf and Lassiter had none of these and they shot the lights out in their day. And could compete if not dominate in the modern era.
Click to expand...


I like the way you think.

Lou Figueroa
 
measureman said:
Aiming systems ,laminated tips , low deflection shafts and all the other so called "training aids" are close to useless.
Mosconi, Greenleaf and Lassiter had none of these and they shot the lights out in their day. And could compete if not dominate in the modern era.
Click to expand...

That's okay though, none of us are Greenleaf, Mosconi or Lassiter. I will take what I get :) and trust me CTE is not useless, if you pot well with out it, then cool. However please don't dismiss what any of the said "training aids" do for others.
 
Fatboy said:
I dont understand why anyone would knock someone who is trying to help teach people, and not asking for anything in return. Its not like he is trapping people with a sales pitch here, he put in his time and effort and wants to share that, thats a positive thing for pool. If it helps one player play a littler better or gets someone interested in pool, then it was a good thing.


That is just plane rude and shows no class or respect at all. I'm not one to call names or point fingers, but it is so far out of line to knock Dave here. If you dont like it, Dont read it. But why knock it? Does it feel good to knock people? Honestly what motivates people to tear down what other people build? Dave is due a appology.



Thats one thing in pool I hate is the negitivity(and its wide spread), at the gym everyone is about personal growth and being positive and helping each other. That atmosphere breeds success. In pool its the oppsite. thats why pool has been in the shitter forever and will remain there until the people in pool show each other respect.


I realize that alot of people here dont like me, and I can handle that. I'm far from being perfect. But I will never knock another mans work/passion.
Click to expand...


Wanting help is fine. But putting out silly info is not.

Lou Figueroa
yes, yes
has spoken
to Hal
 
They are just incorrect diagrams in relation to CTE, and the fact you havn't learned the system from a proper instructer muddies the info you put out. we've never got far discussing cte on here and don't expect too. This system has been rumered to have been around for alot of years, to be used by several pros, but only tidbits of info has been leaked to the public. WHY? don't know, but if I was putting info out for the world, and constantly refering people to it I would certainly try to make it right info. Stan shuffet is the only one I've heard of that has a good understanding of CTE and is willing to teach it. DR. dave you have alot of good info on your site, I just do not feel you do CTE any justice. I use portions of CTE but havn't been to see stan as of yet, and I can tell you it works, how why, can't explain, but it does.
 
Of course i did not watch Mosconi, Greenleaf or Lasitter work on their games that starement was just plain rude. I'm just saying they did not have the modern equipment we have now nor did they have books ,videos or DVD's and they and a lot of others of that time learned to play pretty good. I suppose that some so called systems may help some people but i do not feel they are the end all that will make everybody better, but will make some richer.
Also it has been a bit boring on this forum lately i'm glad we have a thread that evokes some passion and controversy. Lets just keep it civil.

Hey Fatboy i have noticed that your spelling has gotten much better. Good for you.
 
These 'so called systems' can help some players improve. Granted.

And these 'so called systems' are not the 'end all' but, don't you agree that some of these systems can keep certain level players interested and see some improvement?

Sharing these 'systems' and discussing them in these forums does continue to further the process of a lot of players still trying to learn this game.

Not everyone will have talent like the Greenleafs-Mosconi's and Lassiters'.. but a whole lot of wanna-bees have a lot of heart and money to put into this game.

Maybe there just isn't that kind of passion in Denver for you to understand this, but I am sure there is some controversy.

Too bad you have to come here for 'passion and controversy' I thought this was a billiards forum... silly me.

measureman said:
Of course i did not watch Mosconi, Greenleaf or Lasitter work on their games that starement was just plain rude. I'm just saying they did not have the modern equipment we have now nor did they have books ,videos or DVD's and they and a lot of others of that time learned to play pretty good. I suppose that some so called systems may help some people but i do not feel they are the end all that will make everybody better, but will make some richer.
Also it has been a bit boring on this forum lately i'm glad we have a thread that evokes some passion and controversy. Lets just keep it civil.

Hey Fatboy i have noticed that your spelling has gotten much better. Good for you.
Click to expand...
 
measureman said:
Aiming systems ,laminated tips , low deflection shafts and all the other so called "training aids" are close to useless.
Mosconi, Greenleaf and Lassiter had none of these and they shot the lights out in their day. And could compete if not dominate in the modern era.
Click to expand...

The funny thing here is that the system taught to me by Hal Houle was taught to him by Greenleaf. No aiming system..................hmm.
 
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