CTE: trusting the mechanics

M

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
This is just something I thought I'd share after a short practice session at the table. It is through my own observation that CTE demands proper fundamentals and mechanics to be successful, at least more so than other systems like ghostball. With ghostball you can get away with poorer mechanics, then adjust when down on the shot until it looks right. That is observed often enough with below average players, and even a few great ones. Contrasted to CTE (when used in it's correct form), you are trusting center cue ball. For center cue ball to work consistently, that means everything you did before hand must be fundamentally sound. I think a lot of lower-end players may struggle more so with CTE than they would with ghostball. It is also a two-edge sword. I'd venture to guess that a greater number of high-end players are going to be set in their ways, compared to lower-end players looking for something to help their game. That means a vast majority of players interested in trying something like CTE may not have proper fundamentals to begin with, and quickly met with frustration.

I'm not saying beginners can't use it, CTE may also be a good way to get their fundamentals straightened out in short order, whether they know it or not. With high-level players, CTE is likely quite different than anything they are used to and quickly dismiss it.

By mechanics, I'm including the ability to physically align ourselves with what our eyes are telling us.

That said, I accept that I could be completely off-base with any of the above and would gladly accept other's perspectives.
 
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mohrt said:
This is just something I thought I'd share after a short practice session at the table. It is through my own observation that CTE demands proper fundamentals and mechanics to be successful, at least more so than other systems like ghostball. With ghostball you can get away with poorer mechanics, then adjust when down on the shot until it looks right. That is observed often enough with below average players, and even a few great ones. Contrasted to CTE (when used in it's correct form), you are trusting center cue ball. For center cue ball to work consistently, that means everything you did before hand must be fundamentally sound. I think a lot of lower-end players may struggle more so with CTE than they would with ghostball. It is also a two-edge sword. I'd venture to guess that a greater number of high-end players are going to be set in their ways, compared to lower-end players looking for something to help their game. That means a vast majority of players interested in trying something like CTE may not have proper fundamentals to begin with, and quickly met with frustration.

I'm not saying beginners can't use it, CTE may also be a good way to get their fundamentals straightened out in short order, whether they know it or not. With high-level players, CTE is likely quite different than anything they are used to and quickly dismiss it.

By mechanics, I'm including the ability to physically align ourselves with what our eyes are telling us.

Thoughts on that?
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Hi Monty,

My thoughts are that if it is an objective system that is fully explained on how to use & implement it then any one should be able to use it.

To me that is a big if.

I've shot with 'parallel', non mechanical english, for nearly 50 years.

So I know what it is to not 'aim' the center of the cue ball at anything.

For me it's a 'conceptional picture'. I trust my 'conceptual picture'. (That does not mean that I can't or do not ever 'aim' the center CB at something.)

That is sort of what I get from you & some others about CTE.

That once it, the pre-shot, is all done, you trust the bridge placement & pivot to center & just stroke straight.

I have a question for YOU.

Do you look at the OB or the CB when you make the stroke. Also do you do any 'practice' strokes or is it just set the bridge hand pivot & shoot?

Thanks in advance.

Best 2 YOU & All.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hi Monty,

My thoughts are that if it is an objective system that is fully explained on how to use & implement it then any one should be able to use it.

To me that is a big if.

I've shot with 'parallel', non mechanical english, for nearly 50 years.

So I know what it is to not 'aim' the center of the cue ball at anything.

For me it's a 'conceptional picture'. I trust my 'conceptual picture'. (That does not mean that I can't or do not ever 'aim' the center CB at something.)

That is sort of what I get from you & some others about CTE.

That once it, the pre-shot, is all done, you trust the bridge placement & pivot to center & just stroke straight.

I have a question for YOU.

Do you look at the OB or the CB when you make the stroke. Also do you do any 'practice' strokes or is it just set the bridge hand pivot & shoot?

Thanks in advance.

Best 2 YOU & All.
Click to expand...

Hello English,

First of all I want to make it abundantly clear that the pivot does not drive the cue tip destination, but rather the cue tip destination drives the pivot. They eyes see CCB and the cue must be placed on that line. I have posted about this recently on my website, if you want the gritty details.

To answer your question, I have adapted many different subtle differences in my shot execution over the past several years. Lately I have been using the "full circle" CTE information when down on the shot, which means a look across CCB at the object ball from the eye offset before the pivot. Then my eyes focus their attention on CCB from that offset and I place (pivot) my cue onto that line. At stroke, I'm looking at the cue ball. I make very few if any practice strokes.

Monte
 
mohrt said:
Hello English,

First of all I want to make it abundantly clear that the pivot does not drive the cue tip destination, but rather the cue tip destination drives the pivot. They eyes see CCB and the cue must be placed on that line. I have posted about this recently on my website, if you want the gritty details.

To answer your question, I have adapted many different subtle differences in my shot execution over the past several years. Lately I have been using the "full circle" CTE information when down on the shot, which means a look across CCB at the object ball from the eye offset before the pivot. Then my eyes focus their attention on CCB from that offset and I place (pivot) my cue onto that line. At stroke, I'm looking at the cue ball. I make very few if any practice strokes.

Monte
Click to expand...

Thanks again.

Just to be clear, what are you looking at on the OB when you look across CCB with your 'eye' on the offset line?

Best 2 Ya.
 
JoeyInCali said:
If you miss, how do you know what caused you to miss?
Click to expand...

When I miss a specific shot, I'll re-execute and start paying focused attention to every single step. That usually clears up the issue, I'll figure out I was just getting a bit careless about something along the way.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Thanks again.

Just to be clear, what are you looking at on the OB when you look across CCB with your 'eye' on the offset line?

Best 2 Ya.
Click to expand...

The full circle info is on Stan's video. Basically I'm looking at the corresponding (15, 30, or 45 degree) perception across the ball.
 
mohrt said:
The full circle info is on Stan's video. Basically I'm looking at the corresponding (15, 30, or 45 degree) perception across the ball.
Click to expand...

When you say perception, do you mean the whole visual or the A, B, or C Point on the ball.

I'm taking you mean the whole visual & not just the point. Is that correct?

Thanks much for the answers.
 
mohrt said:
This is just something I thought I'd share after a short practice session at the table. It is through my own observation that CTE demands proper fundamentals and mechanics to be successful, at least more so than other systems like ghostball. With ghostball you can get away with poorer mechanics, then adjust when down on the shot until it looks right. That is observed often enough with below average players, and even a few great ones. Contrasted to CTE (when used in it's correct form), you are trusting center cue ball. For center cue ball to work consistently, that means everything you did before hand must be fundamentally sound. I think a lot of lower-end players may struggle more so with CTE than they would with ghostball. It is also a two-edge sword. I'd venture to guess that a greater number of high-end players are going to be set in their ways, compared to lower-end players looking for something to help their game. That means a vast majority of players interested in trying something like CTE may not have proper fundamentals to begin with, and quickly met with frustration.

I'm not saying beginners can't use it, CTE may also be a good way to get their fundamentals straightened out in short order, whether they know it or not. With high-level players, CTE is likely quite different than anything they are used to and quickly dismiss it.

By mechanics, I'm including the ability to physically align ourselves with what our eyes are telling us.

That said, I accept that I could be completely off-base with any of the above and would gladly accept other's perspectives.
Click to expand...
I like CTE's emphasis on a tight pre-shot routine, consistent approach, precise bridge/cue placement - but I'll have the rigmarole on the side, please.

And, by the way, good mechanics are routinely developed by players using any aiming method and none.

pj
chgo
 
ENGLISH! said:
When you say perception, do you mean the whole visual or the A, B, or C Point on the ball.

I'm taking you mean the whole visual & not just the point. Is that correct?

Thanks much for the answers.
Click to expand...

There are multiple details concerning any visual and even if Mohrt gave all the info, I do not believe you would go to the table anyway......all the details you desire will be in my book.

Stan Shuffett
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I like CTE's emphasis on a tight pre-shot routine, consistent approach, precise bridge/cue placement - but I'll have the rigmarole on the side, please.

And, by the way, good mechanics are routinely developed by players using any aiming method and none.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

CTE and what you know are apples and oranges.

Stan Shuffett
 
duckie said:
I think the word "procedure" would have been better than "mechinics". To me "mechinics" is the doing of the shot where as "procedure" is used to get into position to do the mechanical portion of the shot. The mechanical portion being the what is necessary for the body to do the stroke.

What I got out of your post is that CTE is harder to use than ghost ball. That CTE requires a strict adherence to the CTE pre defined procedure to work whereas ghost ball does require not a strict adherence to a pre-define procedure and still works.

You have also assumed that there is only one set standard for proper mechinics, which is really another way to state style of play. If the up and down head movement is done and balls are made, why do you consider it bad procedure? Just because CTE requires a strict adherence to a set of pre defined procedures does not mean this applies to all aiming systems.

Regardless if you are using CTE, missing a shot to the left of the picket requires the ghost ball contact patch to move to the left of where you choose to put the cue ball with CTE. This moves the OB direction of travel line end point to the right toward the pocket.

To bad CTE doesn't seem to be able to offer this type concept for adjustements.
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CTE offers the complete game. If you bothered learning it you would know that. Instead you just try to make a name for yourself by putting it down. Get a clue
 
CTE vs. Ghostball... They both have pros and cons. At times I'll use them both.
I think most players have used Ghost ball before advancing to a CTE type aim.

Aiming systems, without focus on your fundamentals, are essentially worthless.

.
 
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I agree. When one IS definitely on the right shot line then execution becomes so important. Driving the cueball off the shot line with a wonky stroke ends up causing more misses than when someone with body english and poor visual alignment gets with their ingrained habitual way of doing it. They are limited in what they can do, limited in the types of shots they can make reliably and limited in the position routes they can reliably take. But with bad fundamentals you can learn to play the shots that are in your skill set and avoid the ones that aren't.

Using CTE you learn that no shot is off limits BUT that wonky stroke and body movements will negate the careful aim a lot of the time.

For Joey, you just know because you feel the body movement and the crooked stroke as you hit the ball.
 
JB Cases said:
I agree. When one IS definitely on the right shot line then execution becomes so important. Driving the cueball off the shot line with a wonky stroke ends up causing more misses than when someone with body english and poor visual alignment gets with their ingrained habitual way of doing it. They are limited in what they can do, limited in the types of shots they can make reliably and limited in the position routes they can reliably take. But with bad fundamentals you can learn to play the shots that are in your skill set and avoid the ones that aren't.

Using CTE you learn that no shot is off limits BUT that wonky stroke and body movements will negate the careful aim a lot of the time.

For Joey, you just know because you feel the body movement and the crooked stroke as you hit the ball.
Click to expand...
OK, so all of your misses now are caused by bad stroke ? Not counting throws and deflection you would have wrongly allowed for.
Just center ball hits.
 
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Ghostball might be easier for simple shots, but when you start shooting longer shots, longer cuts, and tougher banks CTE starts to get a lot easier than ghostball.
 
mohrt said:
Ghostball might be easier for simple shots, but when you start shooting longer shots, longer cuts, and tougher banks CTE starts to get a lot easier than ghostball.
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Not one good player aims at ghost balls..cte maybe like playing with the ghost ball but good players don't think about such nonsense. And that's a fact jack.
 
8pack said:
Not one good player aims at ghost balls..cte maybe like playing with the ghost ball but good players don't think about such nonsense. And that's a fact jack.
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Sorry, that's not a fact.
I know an old man who toured with Mosconi as his sparring partner ( and he has a scrapbook to prove ) ran 100 balls till he was in his 70's.
He advocated the gb.
Ray Martin's handle here is ghost ball.
It might not be the best system, but champions have used it.
Most just aim at the contact point I think.
 
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