CTP2CTP Aiming

Sorry, but his videos have a lot of misinformation in them. Much better off watching Dr. Daves, Jimmy Reid's, Bert Kinisters, Jerry Briesaths videos.

Like I said, "he isn't the world champion", but neither is Dr. Dave. I was providing the link to let him get some "ideas". I DON'T listen to just one source of information. I listen to MANY and keep what I think works for ME and filter out what doesn't. I'm sure he can do the same.

Aloha.
 
You are CORRECT, but I think we have some confusion. I am TRYING to use inside on every shot, if I have the choice. I plan my patterns to play the diamonds and stay with inside (as little as can get away with), always bringing the cue ball towards the inside and middle of the table and off the rails or into whatever "zone" I need the cue ball to go to.

I play the table by patterns and numbers, and mirror opposites. The entire table is a bunch of little diamonds and squares that all play identical angles as long as you can stay on a line. I try to keep all my OB angles shallow so that I am always hitting the cue ball "heavy" (not so far towards the edge). That way I always have the same feel when I'm hitting the ball so it allows me to adjust to the table speed better and I'm not having to go from cross rail to cross rail (back and forth between the short rails) unless I have to, When you get caught having to go back and forth a lot and need a sharp angle, you have to use "spin" more, which allows the cue ball to get loose a lot easier.

I know how my much my cue deflects, which allows me to "flex" the line a little and have the cue ball come into the "pocket" on the object ball, sort of like bowling if you think about it. My cue ball is always coming into the pocket like a regular strike when you bowl. When you use "outside" English, you are spinning away from the ball (pin) and hitting like a Brooklyn strike.

Unless your eyes work differently than mine, your cue is "never" pointed at the object ball if you are cutting a ball and using outside English, unless you are very close to the object ball. When you use inside English, your cue is on the same side as the line and the contact points on both balls. The width of the tip is close to about 3/8" or so and the object ball is 2 1/4. It isn't too hard to figure out a little shift of the whole cue over a bit to keep the same line as the contact points and allow you to hit center ball if you need to..

One "noticeable" thing is that it sounds like I'm hitting the balls harder than most people. And this is because I am...because I'm keeping the angles shallower, consistent, and hitting the balls fuller than most people do on almost every shot.I am "driving" the cue ball around the angles instead of "spinning" around the table. Driving allows me to hit the cue ball harder, which keeps it straighter on the line as the cue ball goes around the table.

It is way harder to explain than on a forum than it is to show someone and explain it on a table. If you can "visualize" the table with the angles and lines, all you have to do is find the line (not too hard) and stay on it (bit easier said than done). Try to keep all of your shots the "same". Try to feel as much of the 6 oz cue ball as you can. If you are feeling the weight of the cue ball it means you are hitting closer to the center of the cue ball on every shot. You want the same angle, the same speed, the same feel (weight) on every shot if you can see your pattern options and get that worked into your line as soon as possible.

Hope I confused everyone enough. It is midnight now and I got to get up for work at 4:30 A.M., so I guess I'll call it a night.

Aloha.
Very well explained, I agree it is easier to show than explain.
I am always confused so I feel at home.
Hitting them heavy is an understatement to say the least. You hit it on the head with feel the cue ball, let the cue do the work, let the cue ball work and do its job.

I think playing inside the cue ball may be easier for some to understand.

You can also get plenty of juice if needed when playing inside. You can play inside and get the cue ball to do back flips, it's the delivery technique. I believe you must know how to use spin, all spin, any spin, anywhere on the cue ball, at any speed, especially extreme spin touch shots. They may not be our shots of choice, but when mastered are deadly tools one must possess. You can play safe because you lack skill, or dog it because you lack skill, then watch your opponent recover with a spin stroke to get back in line and run out. "Learn it"

We must know the cue ball inside out and back again, the complete player.
Playing in speed may be the most crucial ingredient to achieve and maintain higher level play, once you have the tools.

It's not that difficult; I see many making it seem like it is. At one time information and shared knowledge was scarce. The overload of information today is twisting brains like pretzels. Instead of pool 101 to 501 its pool 1,000,000,000,001

Play inside the cue ball and hit them heavy, the rest will come, bring a straight stroke.

Sincerely: SS
 
Play inside the cue ball and hit them heavy, the rest will come, bring a straight stroke.

Sincerely: SS

YOU explained it better than me in one sentence. :)

Lots of people get "trapped" into the "spin game" and get into habits (some lasting forever) of over using spin. I have had periods in my playing career where I did the same thing and could do it well and please the crowd with "dazzler" shots and perfect position. This works if you are playing extremely well for the day and "feeling" the weight of the cue ball, even though you are "spinning" it. However, if you aren't playing your "best", most people struggle to find the "feel" because they are all over the place on the cue ball on every other shot.

When I first started playing "well" in my early teens, I had a stroke that resembled Filipino players...looked like Zorro waving his sword around and cutting his "Z". An old guy who worked at the pool halls in town for many decades used to come up to me and give me bits of advice. He told me to "plant my bridge hand", straighten out my stroke and hit a bit to "one side or the other" and to hit "full". This guy was never much of a player that I know of, but he knew pool and had watched great money players and told me stories of when he saw Willie Mosconi come to town on an exhibition a couple times (well before my time). He also taught me to recover tables and repair cues.

After a while, I realized that I could make the object balls and get around the table using what I called "dead ball" and get into the same positions that I could using "spin"...only I was a lot more consistent and I had greater "feel" for the cue ball which increases confidence. When you are more confident of the shot (unless you get careless) you are more apt to do what you set out to do because you have erased some of the "negativity" that may have been lingering in your mind. Like they say, pool is 90% mental (which includes the negative thoughts).

When players get into "the zone", they are playing subconsciously because they have the "feel" of the cue ball and aren't having to "think" of what to do. They are just executing a shot that they have hit "over and over". They see and feel the shot...they don't have to over-think it.

I'm NOT saying I DON'T use spin on shots. I'm saying I prefer playing in such a manner that I hope to be using it as little as possible until I can get back in line.

I use whatever is "needed" to get the job done and hopefully that is little to no spin.

When balls are all clustered up or on the rails, you have to use "spin" more often than you do in other games. The key is to see the available patterns and try to get INTO the "no spin" zone as quickly as you can by using "whatever" method works best for you. Once you are in "line", all you have to do is make the object ball and move the cue ball around the lines in the direction you want to go. NOBODY is PERFECT using ANY system. If you get out of line, you have to get back in line in order to continue using your system. This principle applies using TOI, center ball, or TOO. IMHO, "spin" is not a system....it is a way to get yourself back "inside" YOUR system, which is following the lines.

It reminds me of the old saying, "in order to fully understand something, you must learn it from the INSIDE OUT". Once you learn "inside", the rest will all make sense and fall in place. Some people will say this applies to outside English as well and I agree with that also. Mike Segal was known to advocate using outside spin (gearing or helping) when pocketing balls and playing position. That is because he preferred a TOO and had it down to a science...that was HIS "basic" system. He could play inside and outside and in-between as well as anyone, but he picked a style that he was comfortable with and became the best pool player in the world for a long time.

Aloha.
 
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Short Black Line with CP
Yellow Line = CP2CP
Long Black Line = Aim line - parallel to Yellow Line
Blue Line = C2C

cp2cp.jpg

I hope this helps some folks.
 
Short Black Line with CP
Yellow Line = CP2CP
Long Black Line = Aim line - parallel to Yellow Line
Blue Line = C2C

View attachment 375712

I hope this helps some folks.

This is what I see when using TOI. In your example I would use the right side of my cue shaft/feral (spelling?) to aim at the contact point on the OB. Even if I was using TOO I would shoot the shot the same way.

I have a kinetic tremor in my shooting arm/hand and the yellow line is what my stroke looks like now a days. :)

Thanks Lamas for posting. :)

John
 
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No one can win unless they learn how to lose, and they can't make every shot until...

It is very similar I think, except he hits the pockets more often than I do. :)

I may hit the pockets more than you, however, we've probably missed about the same too through the years. ;) No one can win unless they learn how to lose, and they can't make every shot until they've experienced missing (and taken responsibility).

My shot-making ability is due to the TOI knowledge, it gave me a huge advantage playing on tight equipment. I would estimate that the approach angle I use makes the pockets about 30% larger for me than someone that doesn't know how to hit "the zone" (of the pocket).

I'm pretty sure you would agree, I played Brandon Shuff at the US OPEN on a really tight table and he said I "made it look like a bar table". I could tell he was a really good player (didn't know who he was at the time), however, when they don't shoot, they can't win. lol - and such is life.....'The Game is the Teacher' .com
 
This guy can show you a lot of stuff with his free videos. He isn't a world champion, but he has a lot of stuff that will get you in the ballpark.

http://manningcues.com/

Aloha.

No offense if he's your friend or if he posts here, but his stuff (especially the video on "Your Stroke") is horrible.

I'd rather pay double for one of CJ's DVD's than take advice from this guy.
 
No offense if he's your friend or if he posts here, but his stuff (especially the video on "Your Stroke") is horrible.

I'd rather pay double for one of CJ's DVD's than take advice from this guy.

I don't know the guy, never heard of the guy, and don't know if he posts here. I just found his link when I was reading stuff online and bookmarking websites. I don't endorse him as an expert either. I was just passing along the link to give people an idea of what is available if they look for it. Whether what he says works for him or you, is up to you to try and decide. I looked at a few of his videos and that is why I said he "wasn't the world champion". However, he has some information that is free and may help someone learn a little bit about something. A little bit is better than "nothing" in my book and it was also "free". If more people, who have more knowledge than him, would share information like him, then you could take all the inputs, analyze what works, and discard the rest.

I have several of CJ's DVDs but I still need a couple more...I want the one on banking.
 
No offense if he's your friend or if he posts here, but his stuff (especially the video on "Your Stroke") is horrible.

I'd rather pay double for one of CJ's DVD's than take advice from this guy.

Yes, that's very poor information on the stroke video.
Some things he's got close and others he's way off.

randyg
 
This is what I see when using TOI. In your example I would use the right side of my cue shaft/feral (spelling?) to aim at the contact point on the OB. Even if I was using TOO I would shoot the shot the same way.

I have a kinetic tremor in my shooting arm/hand and the yellow line is what my stroke looks like now a days. :)

Thanks Lamas for posting. :)

John

John, you have me scratching my head on your statement. In the picture, the right side of the ferrule is lined up to the contact point. And, he is hitting center axis of the cb. So how can you be seeing the same thing using TOI?
 
Yes, that's very poor information on the stroke video.
Some things he's got close and others he's way off.

randyg

And yet he has this true statement at the start of his lessons-

***Many players will attempt to teach you how they play and have good intentions however, if the information their giving you is incorrect it will hurt your game and future growth**
 
And yet he has this true statement at the start of his lessons-

***Many players will attempt to teach you how they play and have good intentions however, if the information their giving you is incorrect it will hurt your game and future growth**

CJ tells people how he plays and yet some people say his information is "incorrect" or bogus. Is what CJ says hurting people's games and future growth? All I'm hearing from people who have tried his method is that is has "improved" their game.

I don't think people knowingly pass on incorrect information, unless they are running some kind of scam or dealing with complete dumb asses. Most people share information that "they" "think" "works" for "them". It may be a "placebo" effect on occasion, but if it serves their purpose it is useful to them. It may not work, but if they think it does and they can accomplish what they are trying do, then it "does".

I never tell anyone that their method doesn't work. I'm from the "Show Me" state...I say "show me". If you can show me that your method works better than mine, I will adapt it to my game if I am capable of understanding it and use it as needed. I'm an experimenter and like learning new things. I keep what I like...I file or discard the rest.

I'm not big on "knocking" people who try to help others.

Aloha.
 
I don't know the guy, never heard of the guy, and don't know if he posts here. I just found his link when I was reading stuff online and bookmarking websites. I don't endorse him as an expert either. I was just passing along the link to give people an idea of what is available if they look for it. Whether what he says works for him or you, is up to you to try and decide. I looked at a few of his videos and that is why I said he "wasn't the world champion". However, he has some information that is free and may help someone learn a little bit about something. A little bit is better than "nothing" in my book and it was also "free". If more people, who have more knowledge than him, would share information like him, then you could take all the inputs, analyze what works, and discard the rest.

I have several of CJ's DVDs but I still need a couple more...I want the one on banking.

Actually no information IS better than a little bit of information, if that information is bad and full of misinformation.

Anyways, I'll let it be. Sorry for hi-jacking your thread.
 
CJ tells people how he plays and yet some people say his information is "incorrect" or bogus. Is what CJ says hurting people's games and future growth? All I'm hearing from people who have tried his method is that is has "improved" their game.

I don't think people knowingly pass on incorrect information, unless they are running some kind of scam or dealing with complete dumb asses. Most people share information that "they" "think" "works" for "them". It may be a "placebo" effect on occasion, but if it serves their purpose it is useful to them. It may not work, but if they think it does and they can accomplish what they are trying do, then it "does".

I never tell anyone that their method doesn't work. I'm from the "Show Me" state...I say "show me". If you can show me that your method works better than mine, I will adapt it to my game if I am capable of understanding it and use it as needed. I'm an experimenter and like learning new things. I keep what I like...I file or discard the rest.

I'm not big on "knocking" people who try to help others.

Aloha.

And yet, he did exactly that in the video. I'm not big on knocking those helping others myself. I am big on those that don't really care to help others, but are just trying to make a name for themselves and put out any old info. Not even caring enough to know if it is correct or not. And, even worse, those that are informed it is wrong, and then just mock those that showed them the correct way.

Hardly anyone has the time to practice pool like it needs to be practiced to play at a high level. Their time is limited, and their knowledge is limited. If their knowledge wasn't limited, they wouldn't be seeking help. To then have someone give false info that will be detrimental to ones game, is not helping that person at all. Only setting that persons game back while they discover on their own that it was false info, then have to take the time to correct what it did to their game, and then more time to try and learn the correct way to solve their problem.

People that do that are not doing it to help someone get better, but only to "help" themselves in some way. I don't like seeing people trying to get better waste their time on nonsense. To me, anyone that doesn't care about that, isn't really concerned with the player getting better in the first place.
 
I'm not asking how to shoot banks. I'm inquiring if you use your "always hit with inside english" on bank shots too.

The short answer to that is "no". Just because I say I play "inside" on every shot, don't take that to mean 100% of the time on every ball on every shot. It means 100% of the time when I have the "choice" of what to use.

I try to avoid banks if I can, but I'm not afraid to bank and I actually do pretty well at it for never really playing bank pool seriously. It all depends upon the bank and what options are available. Is the objective just to make the ball? Or do I have to make the ball and put the cue ball in a particular spot afterward? It depends upon the objective of the bank. I try to bank balls using as much of a natural angle as the ball arrangement and conditions will allow. I also prefer to hit banks that allow me to hit the ball fuller where I can feel the hit better. If I need to move the cue ball in a certain line after making contact with the object ball I will use whatever I need to hit the line I'm trying to follow. I also will use inside or outside as necessary to lengthen the banking angle or shorten it if I need the cue ball to kind of stay where it is after I have banked the object ball.

Unless you are playing bank pool, banks shouldn't be considered your primary shot, unless nothing else will work. You seldom ever see the pros play position for a bank, unless it is the ONLY thing available or it is so simple that it is almost impossible to miss. If it is a tough bank and precise position is required afterward for another ball you will rarely see a pro go for one...they will play safe with today's BIH rules. Under 2-foul rules, you would see them go for banks all the time.

Aloha.
 
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You seldom ever see the pros play position for a bank, unless it is the ONLY thing available or it is so simple that it is almost impossible to miss.

This is why I like one pocket so much. It stretches the limits of ones shot choices and playing abilities more than any other game.
 
...I have several of CJ's DVDs but I still need a couple more...I want the one on banking.

I got CJ's ppv on banking. I did it mainly to see how he looked at banking and to validate what I do.

He does what all top bankers do and does it very well. He doesn't hit banks with only TOI or anything crazy. He plays the banks that need outside spin, with outside spin.

He adjusts for every bank he shows you as you would expect him to do. He also gives you a method to calculate the spin you'll need to pocket certain banks.

I picked up some good info for a couple of bucks. Such a deal!

Best,
Mike
 
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