Cue feedback is what?

3

3RAILKICK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe an odd question.

What does the term mean to you? Real or imagined? If real, can you describe the 'feeling(s)'? If imaginary...what are you imagining?

Does the shaft reaction to certain shots, certain stroke variations, different grip pressures, or fingers used to grip cue, or bridge lengths, or cue elevations...create a catalog of 'feeling' for the shot?

Muscle memory? Sensory memory? Same thing? Do you have particular 'shot-feelings' on file...assess the table situation..call up that feeling on file, take a couple practice strokes while it loads...shoot-and do it again?

For me..I like a shaft with backbone, but with some give and flex near the tip..that vibrates and communicates solid center ball hits, and the range of off-center vibrations that signal the edge of miscue.


Describing a feeling can be tough. Recognizing a feeling is easier imho. Recreating the action that reproduces that feeling is the tricky part.

Many parts of playing the game are aided by systems. Applying those systems. and the wide array of shots and shape considerations require a lot of feel, much of the time.


...have the day off...may have started drinking too early.
 
Cue feed back is at the end of the night when you've finished playing & did nothing but lose, you get in your car & drive to the nearest wooded area & feed your cue back to trees from which it came.:wink:

Seriously...to me cue feed back, good cue feed back is when you can feel every total aspect of the cue ball during the shot. It's like being in the zone. You don't even feel the cue. It's like the cue is part of your arm & hand. If you can feel the cue then it, the cue, is causing you problems.

That being said, I think the tip & atmospheric conditions can play into how a cue feels. There have been days when my cue & favorite shaft just do not feel right & I will pull a few lower weight cues from the rack until I find one the feels right, or I should I say one that I can feel the cue ball with it.

Sorry but that is the best that I can do. It is extremely difficult to put into words but once you've felt it you'll know it when you feel it again.

As I said a cue's hit can vary a bit from day to day. Some days one might hit too hard & on another day it might hit too soft. Too hard & too soft does not let you feel the cue ball.

So in conclusion, from me, a cue with a good feel is any one that lets you feel the cue ball on that given day. Now some cues will allow that on almost any given day & others may only do that 1 or 2 days a year.

Anyway, I hope you see my points.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
3RAILKICK said:
Maybe an odd question.

What does the term mean to you? Real or imagined? If real, can you describe the 'feeling(s)'? If imaginary...what are you imagining?

Does the shaft reaction to certain shots, certain stroke variations, different grip pressures, or fingers used to grip cue, or bridge lengths, or cue elevations...create a catalog of 'feeling' for the shot?

Muscle memory? Sensory memory? Same thing? Do you have particular 'shot-feelings' on file...assess the table situation..call up that feeling on file, take a couple practice strokes while it loads...shoot-and do it again?

For me..I like a shaft with backbone, but with some give and flex near the tip..that vibrates and communicates solid center ball hits, and the range of off-center vibrations that signal the edge of miscue.


Describing a feeling can be tough. Recognizing a feeling is easier imho. Recreating the action that reproduces that feeling is the tricky part.

Many parts of playing the game are aided by systems. Applying those systems. and the wide array of shots and shape considerations require a lot of feel, much of the time.


...have the day off...may have started drinking too early.
Click to expand...


I think its a combination of sound and the vibration you feel in your grip hand.

Lou Figueroa
 
Hit is overrated. Focus on making the ball and getting shape. Period. If you keep running out then you wouldn't care what the cue feels like. Well, I guess the inverse is true as well. If I keep pounding the ball into the rail I might as well keep myself preoccupied with how awesome the cue hits. Lol.
 
What he said, vibration and sound.

I remember a guy who used to come into the pool hall, had a beautiful stroke,
my gf at the time even said "wow his stroke is so, I dunno, fluid".
Which is weird, she was not a pool player. It's like if I told my golf buddy
"I can't believe the clubhead speed he generates with such a compact stance",
having never hit a golf ball.

He had some fiberglass thing that sounded like TINKKKKK every time he hit a ball.
I always knew where the guy was in the room.

Like a butter knife or a balloon animal, this post has no point.
 
Agreed. All the sensory information a cue can provide is how it "feels". Different shots, different feel.
 
if you dont know

it can never be explained to you.

my best attempt at a description would be, " at the moment of impact, you instantly know if you made a good shot or not "
 
cue feedback

desi2960 said:
it can never be explained to you.

my best attempt at a description would be, " at the moment of impact, you instantly know if you made a good shot or not "
Click to expand...

I'm a bit tantric (have an elevated sense of feel), so I don't expect everyone to understand this.

Here is how I have tried to explain it to others. KEEP IN MIND

Feedback is indeed BOTH vibration and sound. That said: here is how I have explained in the past.....

There are 2 kinds of feedback, incoming and outgoing.

Incoming is what i will explain as it is easy for anyone to feel.

Its simple: Do a stroke test on your/the cue. hold it as you would making a medium speed shot, and aim for center diamond on the other side of the table. Make a PERFECT stroke, and let the cueball come back to your tip. Let it hit dead-center. CLEAR YOUR MIND, and think about the hit of the incoming cueball. you'll get some good vibration from the hit which will resonate all the way down into your stroking hand. (make sure you maintain a loose grip pressure the entire time)

Feel the resonance. What is it telling you? Was there more vibration on your indexfinger,.... or your thumb ?? Which side had more bias from the hit when the cueball touched the tip???

Stroke for center diamond again.... harder this time.

Was the resonance on the hit proportionate to the increase in speed/impact of the incoming cueball??

Outgoing is @ 1/10 of incoming. It is very subtle, but yet there on a well constructed cue. That "feel" , along with the sound of the hit can give you valuable information as to how a cue(or you) are playing.
An example:
You are shooting an automatic weapon, and you occasionally get a "slow" round. the powder isn't right in 1 round,.... doesn't completely fire for whatever reason. the round is more quiet than the others,... you can notice it. The recoil is different as well. In short, YOU KNOW that something was wrong with that particular round and its performance will be different than the others.

I feel this a lot when I am making a cut-shot at slow speed for a side pocket. there is a "grainy" feel that is ever so slight, yet I know that it will effect throw on my shot ,i'll miss the pocket. You know the miss is coming before the CB even hits the OB, all you can do is watch.
I dunno if this helps,but its about the best I can explain it.
 
Feedback is simply another word for information, and in this case it's the information a player receives from his cue after striking the cue ball. A classic example would be a miscue.
Another instance of cue feedback would be when your wife breaks your cue over your head after you come home late from the poolroom. :)
 
Its not at all that complicated. It is not imaginary, and it is not rated over/under or any other way.

It is simply the physical perception one gets from the act of striking the cue ball. It exists and is interpreted by each person however they wish to.

No more, no less.
 
I have an old Joss that make you feel as though you are having good sex.
With that being said I will post it in the for sale forum later.
 
Vibration.

For me, it's the sound and feel of the vibration going through the cue into my hand. I happen to like a lot of sound, and a lot of vibration, but I like the shaft to flex...
 
DoubleD said:
Cue feedback is BS unless it can be quantified. Nobody has quantified it.

There is only one feedback that matters in shooting pool: Did the cueball and object ball do what you want?

The sound and vibrations come after the shot is hit...how do they help you? Sure, sound can give indications that something is wrong with a part of a cue, which might cause problems in the future, but for the shot that was just hit, it does absolutely nothing for you.

I've hit with cues that had loose weigh bolts and ones that had cracks in the forearm. I made balls perfectly fine and controlled the cueball. The fact that there was a rattle after the hit didn't have an effect on the shot and it never will.

dld
Click to expand...

Its not BS , your just hell bent on attaching some mythical properties and/or meaning to it that no one else is.
 
What is being said by the resonance and sound of the cue is something that does offer feedback. I know for a fact that the sound of a good 'pure' stroke will sound nothing like an amateur using even the same cue. Can the amateur get where he wants to get? Sure. Is it
by force or that magical feeling of striking the cue ball to make your stick hum and become something more than a tool for pool but an instrument that plays music? I can close my eyes and listen to anyone's stroke on here and tell if it is 'pure' or manufactured. That being said i am sure that some cues are easier to get to that point of feeling that music.
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Feedback is simply another word for information, and in this case it's the information a player receives from his cue after striking the cue ball. A classic example would be a miscue.
Another instance of cue feedback would be when your wife breaks your cue over your head after you come home late from the poolroom. :)
Click to expand...

DD, I have a good dose of respect for you.

You sound like my old-man did when we talked about it,(if he didn't understand something, frankly it didn't exist.)
Ask a 70yr old Straight pool player how he made that triple carom, he'll just smile! :smile:
(I never developed my game that far, but I sincerely hope to since I have come back to pool now).

Again, with all due respect: your perception is wrong. Read the bold in the quote above; it's just information. There's no "crystal-ball"
 
DoubleD said:
First, thanks for the compliment.

I understand cue feedback. I have studied ultrasonics, vibration analysis, natural frequencies and materials.

My point is that because all of the information is after the hit, it is an effect, a by-product of what is important...at least until someone actually quantifies it.

There is a distinct possibility...hell, a likelihood that different tones, buzzes, vibrations, etc. that occur in cues can be telltale indicators of producing a cue that is genuinely better than any other cue ever made. The problem is that nobody, to my knowledge, has actually figured any of this out in a manner that is scientifically proven to provide better results.

So much of this is conjecture. Every player says, 'This sounds the way I like, so it is better' and 'this cue is stiff, so it is better', etc. without even understanding most of what they are feeling.

Maybe there is an actual 'better' out there. I fully believe that the best performing cue may not actually produce feelings or sounds that the people normally associate with 'great' cues.

As an example, I once made a cue with active weight. I actually made three of them, one with a sliding slug, one with a sloshing liquid and one with lead shot. The one with lead shot was a very good shooter...maybe the best I made, my friends all agreed. We all hated that it sounded like a baby rattle, and tended to drag the cue further on the follow-through.

Too often when things like this are debated without a scientific method, biases are formed and it becomes difficult to change something that someone has faith in, which could be absolutely incorrect.

dld
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DD,
I totally agree with you. To my knowledge , there is no statistical analysis to prove vibration analysis,(then again, I'm not an engineer or physicist).

Some years ago, there were a few cuemakers who believed they could "capture" this "feedback", and make it improve the hit of the cue.

Were they right? Perhaps that is subjective.
Frankly, I don't need scientific analysis to quantify that which I can see & feel. I need it to quantify that which I cannot.
 
DD,
I think we are comparing apples & oranges. The OP's question was open-ended, but I think he was asking if cues do indeed have "feedback." I think by what we both have said here that we both believe pool cues do indeed give the player feedback. You stated in a 1-word post that it was over-rated.

I took your post to mean that there is feedback, but it is useless as it is after the hit.
I agree w/you there that feedback does absolutely nothing for the stroke the player just took; HOWEVER it is information. That information to me,(and presumably many other players), has value.

To answer your question about would I try a cue that had a lousy hit to me, yet played better than any other cue,............. OF coarse I would!! I am naturally curious, so why not?? Do I believe that different cues have different characteristics when striking a cueball,..... yes. I also believe it is highly subjective.

Can/has a cue's "hit" be quantified ??? I honestly don't know. I do know (B/C I can feel it) that there is indeed a shock-wave that travels down through the shaft upon impact with the ball.

Again, I'm not disagreeing w/you here; I think the feedback is just information about the cue, and/or my stroke. I believe you are approaching feedback from the "hit" or performance aspect.
 
DoubleD said:
I understand that, but a quick question: If someone ever did actually scientifically prove that a cue that you didn't like the feel of played better than any other cue, would you play with that cue? To clarify, I mean that the feel of the cue in question is caused by construction methods that dictate that the cue feel that way.
The unfortunate part of this whole debate is that it makes me want to start testing and analyzing this...and I don't have time to do it. I do have access to much of the equipment, tho.
dld
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Take my word for it, a miscue is feedback. You don't need a computerized tuning fork to figure it out.
 
The LD shaft on my favorite player just developed a buzz. :(

At first it drove me crazy, but it still plays ok. I am getting used to playing with the buzz, but I can't wait to get it fixed or replaced so I can feel the tip on the cue ball again.
 
desmocourtney said:
The LD shaft on my favorite player just developed a buzz. :(
At first it drove me crazy, but it still plays ok. I am getting used to playing with the buzz, but I can't wait to get it fixed or replaced so I can feel the tip on the cue ball again.
Click to expand...

The buzz isn't in your shaft. It's coming from the A joint (where the handle meets the forearm). My guess is you're playing with a fairly old cue, right? :)
 
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