Cue Maker or Porper "b"

cbi1000

cbi1000

It is what it is...
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Unique Cue Maker or Porper Model B????

I'm looking for feedback on these two machines. Pro's and Con's. thanks

cbi

Full story:

thanks everyone for your help.

I now have the opportunity to work 12 to 16 tournaments a year and want a great lathe to work them. I just worked one and borrowed a hightower midsize and it did the job just fine. I need to get my own lathe to do these tournaments. Right now i have a grizzly 12x36 but i will have to sell it to get a new smaller lathe. I can't afford both.

I need a lathe i can put on a cart and do tournaments, but i'm also ready to start assembling cues and even try to build some. Not very many but a few here and there.

That being said i want one that is precise, one i can put together cue parts, set pins, tapering is a must.

Anymore info is great! Thanks,
 
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cbi1000 said:
I'm looking for feedback on these two machines. Pro's and Con's. thanks

cbi
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The Porper is the most functional Lathe of it's type. It is a metal lathe only on a smaller scale. The only thing like all smaller lathes, it is slightly under powered for major turning jobs. However, with this machine and it accessories that are included a person can assemble cues very precisely. Is it worth the extra money over the other small lathes that are for sale, I have to say without a doubt yes. In addition the Gentleman who work at Creative Inventions (Porper) are very easy to deal with, and very knowledgeable.

I would not sell mine for anything:)

Take Care
 
it is slightly under powered for major turning jobs
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i agree they are underpowered.i have always wondered how people manage to get true faces on anything bigger than a ferrule.i have worked on the Porper,i think B model and it just won't face perfectly on anything big.
 
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I have a B-model & often need to replace brushes in the motor, but have found no evidence of underpower. It won't face good because the carriage cannot be locked in place without some modification. The machine has drawbacks, but has capability of being a bada$$ machine if one is committed to making appropriate mods.

The cuemaker machine I have no experience with & cannot comment on. It's expensive.

The lathe of choice for me, if I were diving into cuemaking & had the knowledge I have now, would be the Hightower Deluxe. Again, certain mods are required to make it optimally useful, but right out of the crate it's capable of incredibly precise cues. I have one & use it daily for various tasks. Everything is quick change, easy, repeatable. It's cheaper than the other lathes & more accurate than the Porper when it comes to facing & joinery.

Just my thoughts, hope it helps.
 
masonh said:
i agree they are underpowered.i have always wondered how people manage to get true faces on anything bigger than a ferrule.i have worked on the Porper,i think B model and it just won't face perfectly on anything big.
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Don't know what Model you worked with, however I bought a Porper B in Jan 2007. The Model I purchased was Porpers newest model with all the latest upgrades from Porpers shop. It is pretty easy to face any size joint with the machine, I have never had any problem. Now I don't know how the old machines were, but with the upgrades this machine has it is very easy to set-up and use. The dial indicator on the taper bar also makes adjusting and dialing in any taper I want to use very easy.
 
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qbilder said:
I have a B-model & often need to replace brushes in the motor, but have found no evidence of underpower. It won't face good because the carriage cannot be locked in place without some modification. The machine has drawbacks, but has capability of being a bada$$ machine if one is committed to making appropriate mods.

The cuemaker machine I have no experience with & cannot comment on. It's expensive.

The lathe of choice for me, if I were diving into cuemaking & had the knowledge I have now, would be the Hightower Deluxe. Again, certain mods are required to make it optimally useful, but right out of the crate it's capable of incredibly precise cues. I have one & use it daily for various tasks. Everything is quick change, easy, repeatable. It's cheaper than the other lathes & more accurate than the Porper when it comes to facing & joinery.

Just my thoughts, hope it helps.
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agreed..... i had a porper in hand. ready to pick it up and a guy sold it out from under me. instead i got a deluxe and i am very happy i went this route. the only thing i cant do on my deluxe is make my own pins.
 
dave sutton said:
agreed..... i had a porper in hand. ready to pick it up and a guy sold it out from under me. instead i got a deluxe and i am very happy i went this route. the only thing i cant do on my deluxe is make my own pins.
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Hey Dave, what kind of diameter tolerance can you hold turning square stock to round over a 30" span between centers using a router on your Deluxe?

Thanks Dave
 
I think you need to get one of each,that is what I have . I bought the unique lathe that could be converted to the taper shaper,that is what I use it for and do the rest on the porper. Works for me.
 
thanks everyone for your help.

I now have the opportunity to work 12 to 16 tournaments a year and want a great lathe to work them. I just worked one and borrowed a hightower midsize and it did the job just fine. I need to get my own lathe to do these tournaments. Right now i have a grizzly 12x36 but i will have to sell it to get a new smaller lathe. I can't afford both. :frown:

I need a lathe i can put on a cart and do tournaments, but i'm also ready to start assembling cues and even try to build some. Not very many but a few here and there.

That being said i want one that is precise, one i can put together cue parts, set pins, tapering is a must.

Anymore info is great! Thanks,
 
Imho

I would go with the cue smith deluxe the reputation and customer service is unmatched. can also be mounted on wheeled cart.
 
manwon said:
Hey Dave, what kind of diameter tolerance can you hold turning square stock to round over a 30" span between centers using a router on your Deluxe?

Thanks Dave
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i dont fully unerstand your question. sry im a bit tired. are you asking me to turn a 30'' piece of wood round and measure both ends?
 
cue maker and cue smith have good service...

but Porper do not...

I mail to Joe many times ... but no response...

I think good service is very important
 
Dave is correct, the only thing you can't do on the Deluxe is make joint pins. Chris even sells a threading attachment that uses a Dremel router & 60degree thread cutting bit. It does very well with threading wood tenons, such as ferrule tenons. So long as the gibbs are adjusted properly on the carriage, and the bed is clean & lubed, the precision is .001" on my Deluxe over a 30" cut. It's precise enough that I can actually do the match on paper to set the taper pitch & then adjust the machine to my numbers, and get a actual cut dimensions to within .001". That's far & beyond what is needed to do good cue work.

I took off the big motor that was stock with the machine & replaced it with a 1/3hp DC motor that is ran from a 110vac:90vdc circuit board equipped with appropriate switches & rheostats. Essencially I doubled the torque, lightened the power train weight by over half, and gave it infinitely controllable speed with the turn of a knob, no more belt changing. The big ac motor works fine, but a mod to DC power really enhances the machines capabilities in the power department.

With the steady rests that come on the machine, you can face components tremendously accurate. I made delrin & phenolic collets to use in leu with the stock collets. My collets have tapered ID so they are more precise and very repeatable. The stock collets are straight bore and are great for many tasks, but when it comes to facing, I use tapered collets. In terms of holding work peices even and true, the Porper cannot compare, not even in the same ballpark. If the Porper had an adjustable bearing/collet rest & a carriage lock, it would be comparable. But it does not.

Another easy mod is the taper bars. I have several bars I made from Aluminum bar stock I buy at Lowes. I made one for long points, one for short/wide points such as buttsleeve points, compound butt taper, etc. I don't but very rarely use my Deluxe to taper anything, but I do use it for most of my point work. I also took the auto feed motor & replaced the switchable power transformer to a rheostat controller so I could infinitely fine tune the speed of feed to get dead nuts clean cuts.

I have made $2500 worth of mods & re-engineering in my Porper, and it's still not comparable overall to my Deluxe. Each lathe has it's strengths & weaknesses, but the Deluxe has far more strengths & only a couple weaknesses.
 
qbilder said:
Dave is correct, the only thing you can't do on the Deluxe is make joint pins. Chris even sells a threading attachment that uses a Dremel router & 60degree thread cutting bit. It does very well with threading wood tenons, such as ferrule tenons. So long as the gibbs are adjusted properly on the carriage, and the bed is clean & lubed, the precision is .001" on my Deluxe over a 30" cut. It's precise enough that I can actually do the match on paper to set the taper pitch & then adjust the machine to my numbers, and get a actual cut dimensions to within .001". That's far & beyond what is needed to do good cue work.

I took off the big motor that was stock with the machine & replaced it with a 1/3hp DC motor that is ran from a 110vac:90vdc circuit board equipped with appropriate switches & rheostats. Essencially I doubled the torque, lightened the power train weight by over half, and gave it infinitely controllable speed with the turn of a knob, no more belt changing. The big ac motor works fine, but a mod to DC power really enhances the machines capabilities in the power department.

With the steady rests that come on the machine, you can face components tremendously accurate. I made delrin & phenolic collets to use in leu with the stock collets. My collets have tapered ID so they are more precise and very repeatable. The stock collets are straight bore and are great for many tasks, but when it comes to facing, I use tapered collets. In terms of holding work peices even and true, the Porper cannot compare, not even in the same ballpark. If the Porper had an adjustable bearing/collet rest & a carriage lock, it would be comparable. But it does not.

Another easy mod is the taper bars. I have several bars I made from Aluminum bar stock I buy at Lowes. I made one for long points, one for short/wide points such as buttsleeve points, compound butt taper, etc. I don't but very rarely use my Deluxe to taper anything, but I do use it for most of my point work. I also took the auto feed motor & replaced the switchable power transformer to a rheostat controller so I could infinitely fine tune the speed of feed to get dead nuts clean cuts.

I have made $2500 worth of mods & re-engineering in my Porper, and it's still not comparable overall to my Deluxe. Each lathe has it's strengths & weaknesses, but the Deluxe has far more strengths & only a couple weaknesses.
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Very good review, I have never used any High tower products to date. I started off with a wood lathe, and moved to the Porper repair which I still use for other tasks, and then I bought a B-Lathe which I totally love.

All my experience is limited to what I have taught myself, through trial and error, and i have made plenty of error's. But, I have absolutely no problem facing joints of any size or any other portion of a cue. I have no problems using the standard taper bar attached to the machine, in fact it is very easy to adjust using the dial indicator included. I am however, in the process of buying a full size metal lathe for turning and some other operations.

Thanks again for your input to this thread, I have learned a great deal.

Take Care
 
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great post eric...

i dont have the threading attachment but that not a biggie for me. i only really thread joints ad ferrules. i just use ch threaders for that. the only adjustments i made is i took off the top shaft taper bar abd made a taper bar for my point work. i also counter sunk the bolts on the motor mount underneath. i have the bolts coming from the bottom up and put wing nuts so i can tighten and loosen them as i need. alot less movement.
 
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manwon said:
I have no problems using the standard taper bar attached to the machine, in fact it is very easy to adjust using the dial indicator included.
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I actually have another model-B coming. I picked it up used. It's going to be a taper machine. There are mods I made on my old lathe that i'm carrying over to the new one. I re-engineered the feed system to eliminate the brass pinion gear except for handwheel operation. It's a quick change from hanwheel to auto feed, with two totally separate engagement components with the feedscrew. Instead of the brass pinion, it's a long nut. The pinion is disengaged & the carriage is locked to the nut, and visaversa when going back to handwheel. On the new lathe it'll be only the nut, no brass pinion or handwheel. The taper bar system will be totally different, too, spring loaded & smooth. The taper bar bearing support will be an integral part of the carriage, unlike the original set-up where everything is floating. Basically, there will be no drag, ceasing, locking, etc. of the carriage as it moves along the bar. I'm seriously considering doing no taper bar & making it a 2-axis CNC with a motor on the carriage slide & feedscrew.
 
qbilder said:
I actually have another model-B coming. I picked it up used. It's going to be a taper machine. There are mods I made on my old lathe that i'm carrying over to the new one. I re-engineered the feed system to eliminate the brass pinion gear except for handwheel operation. It's a quick change from hanwheel to auto feed, with two totally separate engagement components with the feedscrew. Instead of the brass pinion, it's a long nut. The pinion is disengaged & the carriage is locked to the nut, and visaversa when going back to handwheel. On the new lathe it'll be only the nut, no brass pinion or handwheel. The taper bar system will be totally different, too, spring loaded & smooth. The taper bar bearing support will be an integral part of the carriage, unlike the original set-up where everything is floating. Basically, there will be no drag, ceasing, locking, etc. of the carriage as it moves along the bar. I'm seriously considering doing no taper bar & making it a 2-axis CNC with a motor on the carriage slide & feedscrew.
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Thanks again for the additional information it sounds like a great set-up, from what I understand, Micheal Webb also has modified some B-Lathes for additional procedures outside of their normal use. From what Micheal has said they worked very well for him.

I am going to buy a Grizzly Metal lathe, in the near future for larger turning jobs, but I will never give up my B-Lathe completely or sell it. Like I said before, I have been very happy with the results I have had with the machine to date.

Take Care!!
 
I've worked on both but I own a model B. For repair work the model B seems easier to deal with because you don't move around headstocks or tailstocks. I have been trying to get a wiring diagram from Porper for quite awhile to change switches from the older rotary switch to 3 way toggles but they have been slow to come across with them. My machine is close to 15 years old now and gets moved around quite a bit. I am thinking of cleaning it up and selling it for a Cuesmith Deluxe. The deluxe is probably 75-100 pounds lighter. If you are doing as many tourneys as you say, you'll appreciate not having to move the weight.
 
bob_bushka said:
I've worked on both but I own a model B. For repair work the model B seems easier to deal with because you don't move around headstocks or tailstocks. I have been trying to get a wiring diagram from Porper for quite awhile to change switches from the older rotary switch to 3 way toggles but they have been slow to come across with them. My machine is close to 15 years old now and gets moved around quite a bit. I am thinking of cleaning it up and selling it for a Cuesmith Deluxe. The deluxe is probably 75-100 pounds lighter. If you are doing as many tourneys as you say, you'll appreciate not having to move the weight.
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Weight is not an issue for me. I have a very nice cart and trailer.

I want the best machine. Besides doing 10 - 12 tournys a year i want to start assembling cues and then onto making them.

So i need a machine that will taper shafts and butts. Put pins in. Put everything together.

Thanks everyone for all your info.
 
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