Cue Makers with Tight Tolerances?

[3kushn]

I'm not convinced a tight fitting screw is a good thing. Any idiot can tap a hole that will fit a screw tightly, but that is not how a screw is meant to work. Screws are very good at resolving axial force (i.e. the screw works in tension) and very bad at resolving side and bending forces.

But, if it gives you the 'warm and fuzzies', go ahead and believe it.

dld

Ya I tend to agree. Any more than about 65% of Thread engagement gives very little additional thread strength (pull out). If % of thread is the goal you'll simply be buying more taps and dies than needed. As you said shear loads are not good on the threaded portion of a screw.

Layoni's design is interesting. I assume he got the idea from standard Morse taper tooling. Very strong and accurate design. In fact he said the original design didn't have the threaded pin but sometimes it didn't hold but more often you couldn't get it apart.

IMO the best joint is the wood pin into wood particularly if you're looking for a tight fit. Two advantages other than 100% wood. 1) The pin is cut where the threads stop approx 3/4" before the flat face. This adds shear strength much like a Shoulder Bolt which is made for this purpose. 2) The unthreaded portion can be custom fitted Exactly how you like it. One way is to add coats of super glue, sand, coat, sand..... to perfection.

 

[Chopdoc]

I may not be his biggest fan, but goodness he should be in every cuemaker Hall of Fame.

Freddie <~~~ supporter for Hall of Famer - Bill Stroud

Personally, I am a big fan of his cues and I think he deserves to be in the HOF.

 

[JAMSGOLF]

I don't know about the newer Schon but the two Runde era that I have are a tight fit...

I'll second this. I picked up two Runde cues this week and I was surprised at the "snug" fit once the piloted section of the shaft joint met the collar (on both cues - all shafts). I was expecting a "looser" connection even into the piloted section similar to the Schons I have, but it was nice to feel those last couple turns snug themselves into the joint...

Jason

 

[JoeyA]

As a Mike Bender cue is screwed together, I doubt that you would find ANY cue that is tighter going on, with NO WOBBLE and once it is tightened all of the way, it is like other well made cues, tight.

I doubt if I have ever found a threaded shaft that was tighter than a Mike Bender shaft.

Here in New Orleans, when I first order my Bender cue, I have had to ask Mike Bender to loosen up the threads because of the tightness of the collar. WE have lots of humidity in this part of the country. Still, years later, the cue is still tight.

 

[Cornerman]

As a Mike Bender cue is screwed together, I doubt that you would find ANY cue that is tighter going on, with NO WOBBLE and once it is tightened all of the way, it is like other well made cues, tight.

I should let you put together my 3-piece cue. I need to ask Sheldon if he really intended for it to be this tight.

I dont' want to play the "I'm a career-long assembly engineer" card, but... these threads don't need to be *this* tight for assembly or energy transmission.

Freddie <~~~ not a cuemaker

 

[Black-Balled]

..."I'm a career-long assembly engineer" card,

Freddie <~~~ not a cuemaker

See, Fred...that's why.

You are a good sport, Mr.

 

[meuccise11]

I would have to add a Manning cue out of Fl. to this list. I have seen him leave a couple of threads showing and run a rack. You wouldnt even notice that it was not screwed down.

 

[chris2669]

My Ernie martinez fits nice and tight all the way screwing on the shaft. So due dale Perry's. Bought my wife a J. Pierce for her first cue and it is pretty tight too.

 

[rayjay]

Does having a tight fitting joint mean the cue was built with tight tolerances? I think it goes way beyond just the joint, personally.

 

[rdplyr]

Does having a tight fitting joint mean the cue was built with tight tolerances? I think it goes way beyond just the joint, personally.

I agree that it is not just the joint. I do however (IMO) think it shows attention to detail if a cuemaker takes the time to make sure the joint has a nice tight fit.

 

[JoeyA]

I should let you put together my 3-piece cue. I need to ask Sheldon if he really intended for it to be this tight.

I dont' want to play the "I'm a career-long assembly engineer" card, but... these threads don't need to be *this* tight for assembly or energy transmission.

Freddie <~~~ not a cuemaker

I agree. Too tight is TOO TIGHT. In fact, a pin could loosen in the process of all that tightening and loosening.

I have used MinWax Paste Finishing Wax on the threads and several tightenings and loosenings seems to make the fit less tight. This tip was shared to me by Royce from OB Cues and it worked for me.

 

[Cornerman]

I agree that it is not just the joint. I do however (IMO) think it shows attention to detail if a cuemaker takes the time to make sure the joint has a nice tight fit.

But that's the question... what's the detail that is supposed to be paid attention to and is it the right detail. Frankly, I believe your premise is wrong.

Let's take a look at the "problem," and then find solutions.

We have two piece that need to be taken apart and put together thousands of times in it's lifetime. While together, it needs to be tight, not loosen upon different dynamic force vectors, have a certain audible and tactile frequency (depending on taste)....

Start defining the problem like that and you'll quickly find that having a tight engineering fit while screwing the parts together is not nor should be part of the equation because you have to screw them together so many times.


I think you're talking about screw thread fit when you say "tight." In my reasoning, they shouldn't be tight while screwing. (Don't get me wrong, I don't mean they should be loose either). They should remain tight after screwing and upon repeated dynamic loading and unloading. In other words, tighter screwing isn't necessarily better nor should anyone expect it to be. It could be worse if there's too much interference. Wood isn't steel.


Freddie <~~~ putting the card away

 

[rburgoyne]

Who is this 'local cue-maker'?
I'm very curious about his theories....I prefer 18 thread over 14 thread.
And I had two snooker cues that were 24 thread that hit like a dream.
..for me, it's all feel...but I'd like to know more about this cue-maker.

His name is Bill Stelzenmuller. I have seen his name pop up on AZ a time or two, but he is basically only known locally. I found an interesting article on him when I was trying to figure out how to spell his last name: https://store.bluebookinc.com/InstantAccess/Category.aspx?product=7&id=320

 

[rdplyr]

But that's the question... what's the detail that is supposed to be paid attention to and is it the right detail. Frankly, I believe your premise is wrong.

Let's take a look at the "problem," and then find solutions.

We have two piece that need to be taken apart and put together thousands of times in it's lifetime. While together, it needs to be tight, not loosen upon different dynamic force vectors, have a certain audible and tactile frequency (depending on taste)....

Start defining the problem like that and you'll quickly find that having a tight engineering fit while screwing the parts together is not nor should be part of the equation because you have to screw them together so many times.


I think you're talking about screw thread fit when you say "tight." In my reasoning, they shouldn't be tight while screwing. (Don't get me wrong, I don't mean they should be loose either). They should remain tight after screwing and upon repeated dynamic loading and unloading. In other words, tighter screwing isn't necessarily better nor should anyone expect it to be. It could be worse if there's too much interference. Wood isn't steel.


Freddie <~~~ putting the card away

Let me back up here.... I am not saying I like a cue that fits together too tight. Obviously, if it is a workout to get the cue together, then it is too tight. Just a nice snug fit on the last couple of turns is what I am referring to.

If you believe it is not important, then that is cool too. Personally, that is one of my criteria for a cue I purchase and every cue I have owned that had a nice snug fit at the joint hit great.

 

[Lexicologist71]

Realistically, threads shouldn't be particularly tight. They don't need to be sloppy, but if there is sufficient thread engagement and both materials are up to the task, sloppy won't hurt a thing. Screws aren't meant to take side loads. They are meant to pull the faces together so that there is so much friction between them that they will not move. If a joint pin is too tight, it could mask a failure to properly torque the joint screw, giving a loose facing, which could lead to joint screw damage.