Cue making
- Thread starter Train1077
- Start date
dave sutton
Banned
ypu could spend an endless amount in a shop. i guess your question is that is the minimum. i qould sat if you for a hightower deluxe to you prob around 3600 then finish ect.
id say minimum 5000$ plus alot of time and practice
id say minimum 5000$ plus alot of time and practice
Buy a crazy high end custom cue. Don't be afraid, spend 5-6 thousand. You'll end up saving money and coming out of it with a much nicer cue.
It's unreasonable to buy all of the equipment to make cues if you only want to make a few. A decent shop is going to be expensive. For that 5-6 thousand, you would only end up being able to build fairly basic cues.
Just my two cents.
matta
P.S. If you are still dying to know how it all works, find a local cuemaker and start haunting his shop. We have our share of guys that show up at least a couple times a week.
A very Basic Cue Building lathe will acost you almost $2000 plus shipping and a better cue makaing lathe will cost you almost $3000. As already mentioned that only builds basic cues with points. An Inlay machine will cost another $1800. Then there is shipping which is not cheap. So figure on spending around $7000 for the hobby to be able to build some fancier cues. But to build a basic cue you could get away for under $2000.
See www.cuesmith.com for more details.
Cue Shop Budget
Hi,
You can use one of these cheaper lathes to produce a cue and thats all good. If you get the bug and decide to go down the path of cue-making you better figure at least $ 50,000.00.
The best shops have work stations for every phase of the operations. This requires many lathes, tooling, and other machinery.
Rick Geschrey
Esoteric Cue
Hi,
You can use one of these cheaper lathes to produce a cue and thats all good. If you get the bug and decide to go down the path of cue-making you better figure at least $ 50,000.00.
The best shops have work stations for every phase of the operations. This requires many lathes, tooling, and other machinery.
Rick Geschrey
Esoteric Cue
The advice given thus far is good- if you have a several thousand dollar budget, it is best to get on a waiting list and have a cue MADE exactly the way you want it by a reputable maker.
If you must make it your self, there are a few options that are cost effective.
1) Use the dedicated cue making lathes (as mentioned above) and if lucky, get them used! Note that tools and inserts can easily cost several hundred dollars on their own...
2) Rent time in a machine shop, although they frown upon offsetting a tail stock quite a bit to do a taper...
Now, to cut point 'vees', these days a mil is how it is done. It has been done in the past, and I have done it myself, with a radial arm saw. It can also be done (but it is a bit scary) with a table saw.
Inlays were traditionally done by HAND, not with expensive equipment. I did inlay work in guitars and the fanciest thing I had was a router base for my dremel. I used a board with a slot and hole drilled and an aquarium pump to blow away the dust. A jeweler's saw was used to cut Pearl. Old school. It takes a long time, but it is truly hand made at that point, which is cool. If you go with simple dots, use a forstner bit and get pre-cut pearl dots. For perfect, fancy inlays, you need expensive equipment...
As to learning the techniques of assembly, there are a hundred or so ways to do it, and not many guys are talking! Try collecting books and videos that are out there. Remember: it looks easy on the video because the guys on there are pros! They do this all day long! It is MUCH more difficult than it looks!
Which brings us back to the beginning. Save up several thousand dollars and have a reputable maker make exactly what you want. I personally am just too damn stubborn to listen to my own advice!
If you must make it your self, there are a few options that are cost effective.
1) Use the dedicated cue making lathes (as mentioned above) and if lucky, get them used! Note that tools and inserts can easily cost several hundred dollars on their own...
2) Rent time in a machine shop, although they frown upon offsetting a tail stock quite a bit to do a taper...
Now, to cut point 'vees', these days a mil is how it is done. It has been done in the past, and I have done it myself, with a radial arm saw. It can also be done (but it is a bit scary) with a table saw.
Inlays were traditionally done by HAND, not with expensive equipment. I did inlay work in guitars and the fanciest thing I had was a router base for my dremel. I used a board with a slot and hole drilled and an aquarium pump to blow away the dust. A jeweler's saw was used to cut Pearl. Old school. It takes a long time, but it is truly hand made at that point, which is cool. If you go with simple dots, use a forstner bit and get pre-cut pearl dots. For perfect, fancy inlays, you need expensive equipment...
As to learning the techniques of assembly, there are a hundred or so ways to do it, and not many guys are talking! Try collecting books and videos that are out there. Remember: it looks easy on the video because the guys on there are pros! They do this all day long! It is MUCH more difficult than it looks!
Which brings us back to the beginning. Save up several thousand dollars and have a reputable maker make exactly what you want. I personally am just too damn stubborn to listen to my own advice!
I fall into the same catagory. It's worth doing. Took my 3rd cue out last Wednesday. What a joy it was when someone asked "who made it" and I could answer I did! Nothing fancy and it shot great.
Well this thread got me thinking too - I've always loved wood working, just been too busy with making computer software to really do much of it. I also had a decent amount of coffee and got a wild hair up my a** to build a cue tonight. After work I drove straight to Lowes for "supplies".
So when I got home I took one of my house cues, cut it in half, used a belt sander to true up the ends (I'm using "true" loosely here
), used a hand-drill to make the pilot hole and used a wood-wood hanger bolt for the "pin".
All-in-all it's not too bad, although without a lathe, and doing the holes by hand, the hole in the shaft isn't perfect. The butt actually looks pretty good, if not a little crazy I used some epoxy in the butt to hold the bolt in. However the butt and shaft don't match up perfectly, but some how it still rolls pretty straight. I guess my innacuracies are compensating for one another 
Decided to take it to the basement and play some 14.1. My very first run with it, no joke, was a 20!! For me that's pretty dang good. I quit after the next run which was like a 7 or 8.
So now I'm kind of hooked. If I just wanted to do conversions and nothing else, what kind of equipment could I get away with? Is the Deluxe Cuesmith enough for that?
So when I got home I took one of my house cues, cut it in half, used a belt sander to true up the ends (I'm using "true" loosely here
), used a hand-drill to make the pilot hole and used a wood-wood hanger bolt for the "pin".All-in-all it's not too bad, although without a lathe, and doing the holes by hand, the hole in the shaft isn't perfect. The butt actually looks pretty good, if not a little crazy
I used some epoxy in the butt to hold the bolt in. However the butt and shaft don't match up perfectly, but some how it still rolls pretty straight. I guess my innacuracies are compensating for one another Decided to take it to the basement and play some 14.1. My very first run with it, no joke, was a 20!! For me that's pretty dang good. I quit after the next run which was like a 7 or 8.
So now I'm kind of hooked. If I just wanted to do conversions and nothing else, what kind of equipment could I get away with? Is the Deluxe Cuesmith enough for that?
harder than it looks
Books and video's are great...So much information....I have 4 sets of dvd's on cue making and none of the 4 build cues the same way.. Different Equipment, Glues and Techniques. It is much harder than it looks..But i believe its like anything else, practice makes perfect...Best advice i can give
after 6 weeks of beginners cue building is whoever you buy your equipment from, BUY THEIR DVD's its a big help...
I have no idea who makes the best cue making equipment.. What i can say is i purchased a DELUXE from Hightower and am very satisfied with the Quality and performance..Its a complete turn key cue making lathe out of the box and the customer support is 2nd to none. His book and DVD's are great.
Good Luck
Max
Books and video's are great...So much information....I have 4 sets of dvd's on cue making and none of the 4 build cues the same way.. Different Equipment, Glues and Techniques. It is much harder than it looks..But i believe its like anything else, practice makes perfect...Best advice i can give
after 6 weeks of beginners cue building is whoever you buy your equipment from, BUY THEIR DVD's its a big help...
I have no idea who makes the best cue making equipment.. What i can say is i purchased a DELUXE from Hightower and am very satisfied with the Quality and performance..Its a complete turn key cue making lathe out of the box and the customer support is 2nd to none. His book and DVD's are great.
Good Luck
Max
our shop has only 2 old (as in old) lathes, no roller guides even, only hi-lo speeds (no super slow), a couple of bench saws, a power drill, and a handful of hand tools. but we still come up with world-class cues despite the severe limitations. why, because we have the most important tool we have in the shop. it is none other than the hand, heart and mind of the cuemaker himself. to date, we still do inlays entirely by hand, chiseled one-by-one... and we're not ashamed of it, instead, we are very proud of it... as we are one of the only few who still do handmade cues of course, we would have wanted those nice machines (who wouldn't) because it will make cuemaking a lot more easier and more precise. but financial resources just won't allow us to. my point is, cuemaking really lies in you, not with the machines. machines help a lot - no doubt. but if you really put yourself in it, love what you're doing, you will be surprised by what you can accomplish even with a not-so-expensive equipment.
just my 2 cents.
of course, we would have wanted those nice machines (who wouldn't) because it will make cuemaking a lot more easier and more precise. but financial resources just won't allow us to. my point is, cuemaking really lies in you, not with the machines. machines help a lot - no doubt. but if you really put yourself in it, love what you're doing, you will be surprised by what you can accomplish even with a not-so-expensive equipment. just my 2 cents.
our shop has only 2 old (as in old) lathes, no roller guides even, only hi-lo speeds (no super slow), a couple of bench saws, a power drill, and a handful of hand tools. but we still come up with world-class cues despite the severe limitations. why, because we have the most important tool we have in the shop. it is none other than the hand, heart and mind of the cuemaker himself. to date, we still do inlays entirely by hand, chiseled one-by-one... and we're not ashamed of it, instead, we are very proud of it... as we are one of the only few who still do handmade cues
just my 2 cents.
I saw some pictures of your cues and I don't believe for one minute that you cut inlays with a chisel. As to your cues being hand made - that is not true because you use machines to build your cues. All and all most of what you say is plain BS.
Try this cra* on someone who has not ever build a cue.
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Hmmm....
Perhaps he is BS-ing us; however have you looked at some of the inlay work done (on all sorts of things) from the 1800's and earlier?
They did not have pantographs or anything else- just a sharp scribe to mark the pocket, a saw to cut inlay material and a set of sharp chisels to make the pocket.
Not defending him; just pointing out that you CAN do inlay with nothing more than a scribe, saw and chisel. (plus, most importantly, a LOT of skill and patience). There are a lot of great books out there on inlay work, and I strongly suggest it to anyone doing any inlay work on anything. (it is full of ideas if nothing else!)
When I did guitar inlay, it was with a dremel as a router. That was the only piece of 'equipment' I used. I cut pearl by hand, traced the shape onto the piece it was to be set into, and dremeled (most of it) and chiseled it (the sharp corners) out by hand. For dots I purchased them pre-cut, and used an appropriate diameter forstner bit for the pocket. You didn't need glue with these! The fit was super-tight. (I did glue them however!)
If I do any inlay on my next cue, I will have to do that as well, although I will likely purchase my diamonds (and dots if I use them) just because it takes so much time to cut pearl by hand...
Perhaps he is BS-ing us; however have you looked at some of the inlay work done (on all sorts of things) from the 1800's and earlier?
They did not have pantographs or anything else- just a sharp scribe to mark the pocket, a saw to cut inlay material and a set of sharp chisels to make the pocket.
Not defending him; just pointing out that you CAN do inlay with nothing more than a scribe, saw and chisel. (plus, most importantly, a LOT of skill and patience). There are a lot of great books out there on inlay work, and I strongly suggest it to anyone doing any inlay work on anything. (it is full of ideas if nothing else!)
When I did guitar inlay, it was with a dremel as a router. That was the only piece of 'equipment' I used. I cut pearl by hand, traced the shape onto the piece it was to be set into, and dremeled (most of it) and chiseled it (the sharp corners) out by hand. For dots I purchased them pre-cut, and used an appropriate diameter forstner bit for the pocket. You didn't need glue with these! The fit was super-tight. (I did glue them however!)
If I do any inlay on my next cue, I will have to do that as well, although I will likely purchase my diamonds (and dots if I use them) just because it takes so much time to cut pearl by hand...
I have to agree with Arnot.. There is no way in heck that you are not useing an inlay machine. You don't get round ends useing a chisel my friend..
Hmmm....
Perhaps he is BS-ing us; however have you looked at some of the inlay work done (on all sorts of things) from the 1800's and earlier?
Yes I have looked at some old inlay work and it DOES NOT compare to the precision work we cuemakers are doing today. Most of the shapes were cut and inlayed into black background work that was filled with black glue to cover the sloppy work.
They did not have pantographs or anything else- just a sharp scribe to mark the pocket, a saw to cut inlay material and a set of sharp chisels to make the pocket.
Not defending him; just pointing out that you CAN do inlay with nothing more than a scribe, saw and chisel. (plus, most importantly, a LOT of skill and patience). There are a lot of great books out there on inlay work, and I strongly suggest it to anyone doing any inlay work on anything. (it is full of ideas if nothing else!)
I think you are defending him or else just being argumentative. I don't care how much care and patience you posess you still cannot do the precision work we do today.
When I did guitar inlay, it was with a dremel as a router. That was the only piece of 'equipment' I used. I cut pearl by hand, traced the shape onto the piece it was to be set into, and dremeled (most of it) and chiseled it (the sharp corners) out by hand. For dots I purchased them pre-cut, and used an appropriate diameter forstner bit for the pocket. You didn't need glue with these! The fit was super-tight. (I did glue them however!)
Show us some pictures of your fine inlay work in guitars. It sounds like you mostly drilled a hole with the proper size drill bit and inlayed premade precision dots.
If I do any inlay on my next cue, I will have to do that as well, although I will likely purchase my diamonds (and dots if I use them) just because it takes so much time to cut pearl by hand...
You mean on your SECOND cue. Build one cue and become a Cue Guru. One cue with no inlays makes you an expert on all aspects of cuemaking. Why don't you learn some before you show how much you don't know.
Yes, my second cue. That will be my next cue, after the first. That is absolutely correct.
I am not "Cue Guru" because I think I make the best or know the most about cue making; it is the name of my web site that sells billiard supplies, and it sounds cool, is catchy and easy to remember; all key to good web site development. That's all.
The most complex inlay work I did was Llamas in the neck of two basses (a five-string and an eight-string for the same customer) and the photos are on film, so that makes it difficult, but I will get them up here somehow!
I did some basic scrimshaw work on them as well...
I am not "Cue Guru" because I think I make the best or know the most about cue making; it is the name of my web site that sells billiard supplies, and it sounds cool, is catchy and easy to remember; all key to good web site development. That's all.
The most complex inlay work I did was Llamas in the neck of two basses (a five-string and an eight-string for the same customer) and the photos are on film, so that makes it difficult, but I will get them up here somehow!
I did some basic scrimshaw work on them as well...
Inlays by hand--comment only
With all due respect I also made guitars for years and did my inlays exactly
the way you describe. However, most inlays on guitars are done on the flat
peghead veneer or on the 28 foot radius (Martin) fret board. That is worlds away from doing inlays by hand on a 1" to 1.250" diametercue butt. Some can do it and I take my hat off to them--but seeing is believing.. Making guitars is a lot simpler, and easier, than making cues. Many a day I wished I had stuck with the guitars.
When I did guitar inlay, it was with a dremel as a router. That was the only piece of 'equipment' I used. I cut pearl by hand, traced the shape onto the piece it was to be set into, and dremeled (most of it) and chiseled it (the sharp corners) out by hand. For dots I purchased them pre-cut, and used an appropriate diameter forstner bit for the pocket. You didn't need glue with these! The fit was super-tight. (I did glue them however!)
..
With all due respect I also made guitars for years and did my inlays exactly
the way you describe. However, most inlays on guitars are done on the flat
peghead veneer or on the 28 foot radius (Martin) fret board. That is worlds away from doing inlays by hand on a 1" to 1.250" diametercue butt. Some can do it and I take my hat off to them--but seeing is believing.. Making guitars is a lot simpler, and easier, than making cues. Many a day I wished I had stuck with the guitars.
This may very well be true. I, as of now have not inlayed a cue.
But, the 7 1/2 radius of the early 'strat' and 'tele' style guitars was not as 'round' as a cue- not by a long shot! I realize that and assumed the inlay would have to be deeper to accomodate the radius.
BUT, until I do it myself, I cannot say how easy or difficult it may be. With a CNC or pantograph, making the pocket deper, but still maintaining a straight hole is relitively easy. I understand it is not at all easy to do by hand, but all I was saying is that it is possible.
I mean, hundreds of years ago, you basically aprenticed with your father as an inlay artist about as soon as you could speak. So, but the time he died, you were at least as good, and had 40 or more years of experience doing inlay work. That was ALL you did- no other school, not much in the way of entertainment- no iPods to distract you- nothing. You just did inlay. That was real artisanship, and it simply is not around like that now.
I have to respect those who still do it by hand, even if it is not as perfect as those who use the best equipment money can buy. I think we as consumers expect perfection, as craftsman want to provide it, but there is something lost there in the mix I think...
I am not saying the current methods are wrong either- just that I can apreciate both I guess.:thumbup:
But, the 7 1/2 radius of the early 'strat' and 'tele' style guitars was not as 'round' as a cue- not by a long shot! I realize that and assumed the inlay would have to be deeper to accomodate the radius.
BUT, until I do it myself, I cannot say how easy or difficult it may be. With a CNC or pantograph, making the pocket deper, but still maintaining a straight hole is relitively easy. I understand it is not at all easy to do by hand, but all I was saying is that it is possible.
I mean, hundreds of years ago, you basically aprenticed with your father as an inlay artist about as soon as you could speak. So, but the time he died, you were at least as good, and had 40 or more years of experience doing inlay work. That was ALL you did- no other school, not much in the way of entertainment- no iPods to distract you- nothing. You just did inlay. That was real artisanship, and it simply is not around like that now.
I have to respect those who still do it by hand, even if it is not as perfect as those who use the best equipment money can buy. I think we as consumers expect perfection, as craftsman want to provide it, but there is something lost there in the mix I think...
I am not saying the current methods are wrong either- just that I can apreciate both I guess.:thumbup:
Depends on how serious you are... it could be free. The original investment can be re-coup within a few years by just doing repairs alone. After that, building cues cost is really your opportunity cost for time spent making cues.
Regards,
Duc.
Regards,
Duc.